DFDS launch "brexit bypass" Rosslare-Dunkerque freight ferry route

[richw]

Interesting that Dunkirk is an end point. I'd have thought Le Havre would have been more suitable

A 24 hour crossing has benefits.
weekly rest period is 45 hours but every fortnight the driver can reduce to 24 hours weekly rest. If the driver has a bed, then his 24 hour rest has been taken whilst on the ferry.

 

[deltic]

According to the Financial Times 150,000 trucks transport 3m tonnes of freight across Britain’s “land bridge” to the continent from Ireland so plenty of potential to support new ferry crossings

 

[60019]

Indeed... tbh I'm surprised it took Brexit for a ferry operator to try this.

HGV traffic on roads has always been underpriced.

It will be for businesses that rely on that transit traffic. Potentially a lot of people in the likes of Dover and Holyhead losing out.

I’d be very surprised if the drivers and ferry crews spend enough in Britain (even including the black market) to pay for the costs of the extra traffic, especially since most of the ferries aren’t based in Britain, though I suppose the border guards and so on provide economic stimulus in Dover.

 

[contractador]

'Unaccompanied' trailers are quite common on many (longer) ferry routes, including across the North Sea as well as Continent <-> Ireland. There is absolutely no point paying a driver to twiddle his thumbs in a cabin for 24 hours or to tie up an expensive tractor unit not turning a wheel for that time.

Brilliantly put!

 

[craigybagel]

HGV traffic on roads has always been underpriced.

I’d be very surprised if the drivers and ferry crews spend enough in Britain (even including the black market) to pay for the costs of the extra traffic, especially since most of the ferries aren’t based in Britain, though I suppose the border guards and so on provide economic stimulus in Dover.

P&O and Stena Line, which account for a very large amount of the land bridge traffic between them, still employ a large amount of British staff onboard their ships. I'm not sure what the situation is with DFDS' Dunkerque service - but as all 3 ferries on that route are registered in Dover I would assume there is some British involvement in crewing those ships as well? And even those ships that do use foreign crews still require the use of British stevedores, and other staff in the ports. Even if the trucks go nonstop from Dover to Holyhead without their drivers spending a single penny enroute (highly unlikely given the distance involved, but I'll humour it all the same) there's still a lot of jobs tied up in this traffic that can't just be dismissed.

 

[37424]

P&O and Stena Line, which account for a very large amount of the land bridge traffic between them, still employ a large amount of British staff onboard their ships. I'm not sure what the situation is with DFDS' Dunkerque service - but as all 3 ferries on that route are registered in Dover I would assume there is some British involvement in crewing those ships as well? And even those ships that do use foreign crews still require the use of British stevedores, and other staff in the ports. Even if the trucks go nonstop from Dover to Holyhead without their drivers spending a single penny enroute (highly unlikely given the distance involved, but I'll humour it all the same) there's still a lot of jobs tied up in this traffic that can't just be dismissed.

Depends if your a Brexiteer In which case are No down sides to leaving the EU in their world. This route may well become popular and I can see Ireland bypassing the UK in many respects.

 

[60019]

P&O and Stena Line, which account for a very large amount of the land bridge traffic between them, still employ a large amount of British staff onboard their ships. I'm not sure what the situation is with DFDS' Dunkerque service - but as all 3 ferries on that route are registered in Dover I would assume there is some British involvement in crewing those ships as well? And even those ships that do use foreign crews still require the use of British stevedores, and other staff in the ports. Even if the trucks go nonstop from Dover to Holyhead without their drivers spending a single penny enroute (highly unlikely given the distance involved, but I'll humour it all the same) there's still a lot of jobs tied up in this traffic that can't just be dismissed.

I looked up the numbers, there’s about 5500 British- and Irish-based staff in P&O Ferries and Stena. I had assumed the ferries were more efficient than that.

Depends if your a Brexiteer

Not exactly a brexiteer: I don’t like the EU as it exists and to successfully implement policies I want we’d have to leave eventually unless it changed in implausible ways, but I voted remain because it wasn’t the right time, the right way, or the right government to leave, as the government have thoroughly demonstrated.

I am anti-HGV, but the desired effect could be achieved by jacking up the HGV toll, as Germany demonstrated once they figured out the right way to give exemptions.

 

[cactustwirly]

Have DFDS actually committed themselves to a long term route, or are they just placing themselves so that they are first off the blocks if there is no deal or the details of the deal lead to lengthy queues of trucks on the roads leading to the ports, ferries waiting for dock space for their loads to disembark on to and mounds of paperwork? It is still theoretically possible that a deal will be struck that will avoid such problems and lorries will continue to transit the UK as before, although I am even more pessimistic about this than I usually am.

Yes they would have signed a 6/12 month charter for the ships.

 

[Merle Haggard]

HGV traffic on roads has always been underpriced.

I’d be very surprised if the drivers and ferry crews spend enough in Britain (even including the black market) to pay for the costs of the extra traffic, especially since most of the ferries aren’t based in Britain, though I suppose the border guards and so on provide economic stimulus in Dover.

I can't think of how Irish hauliers contribute to their 'track costs' (road construction and maintenance)
They won't licence their vehicles in the UK, and will probably arrive in the country with a full tank of fuel and not need to fill up before exiting the country.
It's also interesting that, observed anecdotally from driving on Motorways, their speed limiters did not seem to be set to a speed as low as the 56 m.p.h then required of UK operators. Don't see them in service areas much, either...

 

[Gloster]

Yes they would have signed a 6/12 month charter for the ships.

I know nothing about the ferry business, but is six or twelve months a very long period for an initial charter? Or does it just count as a reasonable period to test the market.

 

[60019]

I can't think of how Irish hauliers contribute to their 'track costs' (road construction and maintenance)

There’s a mileage based fee for HGVs regardless of where they are registered, and the VED for HGVs has been cut accordingly. I haven’t done the maths on how the shortfall (if any) there compares to the value of rail subsidies to freight operators (which is tricky to pick out anyway)

 

[cactustwirly]

I know nothing about the ferry business, but is six or twelve months a very long period for an initial charter? Or does it just count as a reasonable period to test the market.

It's a standard amount of time. They'll be options to extend it if DFDS want to.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Depends if your a Brexiteer In which case are No down sides to leaving the EU in their world. This route may well become popular and I can see Ireland bypassing the UK in many respects.

Most people who support leaving the EU are well aware of the downsides. But people who opposed leaving, including I assume you, continue to insult people who had a different opinion and this does your cause, whatever that is, no good.

This topic is interesting with lots of good information and it is a pity throwaway insults have intruded.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

I looked up the numbers, there’s about 5500 British- and Irish-based staff in P&O Ferries and Stena. I had assumed the ferries were more efficient than that.

Not exactly a brexiteer: I don’t like the EU as it exists and to successfully implement policies I want we’d have to leave eventually unless it changed in implausible ways, but I voted remain because it wasn’t the right time, the right way, or the right government to leave, as the government have thoroughly demonstrated.

I am anti-HGV, but the desired effect could be achieved by jacking up the HGV toll, as Germany demonstrated once they figured out the right way to give exemptions.

What did the Germans do right, reduce lorry traffic?

 

[60019]

What did the Germans do right, reduce lorry traffic?

Their objective was just to make all lorries pay their road tax, so it is only charged if you drive on an autobahn and is capped at the old road tax value.

the problem they had was with some quirk of the national treatment rules, though I’ve forgotten what it was.

 

[alex397]

Most people who support leaving the EU are well aware of the downsides. But people who opposed leaving, including I assume you, continue to insult people who had a different opinion and this does your cause, whatever that is, no good.

This topic is interesting with lots of good information and it is a pity throwaway insults have intruded.

You have objected to an assumption, by making an assumption yourself.
Sure, many anti-Brexit people can take insults too far, but most don’t presumably don’t do this. Brexiteers are not exactly innocent when some Brexit supporters use language such as ‘snowflakes’, ‘remoaners’, ‘traitors’ and so on, which certainly doesn’t help. It is also incredibly frustrating when some Brexit voters say all the hardship will be worth it for ‘sovereignty’.

 

[berneyarms]

Stena Line have announced that they are adding an additional ferry on the route between Rosslare and Cherbourg.

That will see sailings on the route double from three to six per week in each direction.

Stena doubling Rosslare-Cherbourg sailings due to post-Brexit demand

Second ferry added to direct service to France amid concerns over delays on UK landbridge

www.irishtimes.com

Stena doubling Rosslare-Cherbourg sailings due to post-Brexit demand​

Second ferry added to direct service to France amid concerns over delays on UK landbridge​

Ferry operator Stena Line is doubling weekly sailings on its Rosslare-Cherbourg route to meet demand for direct routes to mainland Europe to bypass post-Brexit checks at UK borders.

In a further signal of changes to trade driven by the UK’s impending departure from EU economic rules, the Swedish company is adding another vessel to the direct route to France.

Fears about traffic snarl-ups at UK and EU ports on the Irish Sea and English Channel has led to an increase in the direct ferries to continental Europe, and a new direct service to France.

The number of services on Stena’s ferry route from the south-eastern port to France will increase from three to six, as a result of an additional ferry being assigned.

The increased service follows the decision of Danish ferry operator DFDS last month to re-enter the Irish market with a new, six times a week service between Rosslare and Dunkirk.

Direct service​

Rosslare Europort, which is operated by Iarnród Eireann, will have up to 30 direct services to and from Europe next year.

As the closest Irish port to mainland Europe, it has become an attractive to Irish importers and exporters looking to avoid uncertainty from Brexit controls on the UK “landbridge” route.

If the shipping lines meet traffic targets, Rosslare Europort will see a 40 to 50 per cent increase in freight traffic through the port.

Stena is adding a freight-only vessel, Stena Foreteller, providing an additional 3,000 lane metres of freight capacity per trip with facilities for up to 12 driver-accompanied units.

‘Brexit-proof option’​

Iarnród Eireann said that the new Stena service would give Irish industry “an increasingly important freight link between Ireland and Europe”.

Glenn Carr, general manager of Rosslare Europe, said that the new route and services from the port would “ensure that Irish business has Brexit-proof options for trade”.


“In the context of Brexit, our new business announcements have illustrated the work we have done with the haulage industry, representative bodies, shipping operators and ports in Europe to identify strong offerings for the sector,” he said.

Stena chief executive Niclas Mårtensson said the company had been “listening carefully to feedback from our customers and it has become clear that there is demand for increased frequency on the Rosslare-Cherbourg service, the shortest direct crossing between Ireland and France”.

In addition to the Cherbourg service, Stena Line, the largest ferry company running services between Ireland and Britain, operates five routes with 11 ships on the Irish Sea: Belfast to Cairnryan, Heysham and Liverpool, Dublin to Holyhead, and Rosslare to Fishguard.

The UK landbridge is still the quickest route to Europe for hauliers with journeys as short as 13 hours, compared with 18 hours on the ferry to Cherbourg and up to 24 hours to Dunkirk.

Uncertainty around post-Brexit controls coming into effect from the start of next year at EU-UK border ports make the journey unpredictable, when businesses require certainty on deliveries for time-sensitive products such as fresh and chilled food and pharmaceuticals.

On Tuesday, Stena called on the European Union to introduce a six-month “implementation phase” for post-Brexit controls at ports because many businesses were not ready, and because of the importance of the UK “landbridge” for Irish, British and European supply chains.

Brittany Ferries also operates direct services to continental Europe from Rosslare. The company sails to Bilbao in Spain twice each week, and will sail to Cherbourg once a week from March.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I think this is why Ireland to/from continent ferries may get an increase in demand. Many lorry operators might want to avoid the potential disruption and extra burecracy or dealing with the UK, and rather go by ferry than the "land-bridge". The ferry will be quicker If they get stuck in the UK.

However - I'm not an expert in this matter. If a lorry is travelling from, say, Belgium to Ireland, and travels across the UK to reach Ireland, would it have to go through customs even though it isn't delivering to the UK? Although, even if it didn't have to go through customs, it would have to deal with traffic congestion.

Okay, so what's on the table is that the UK will stay part of the Common Transit System. That means that you only make one declaration to UK Customs in advance, who (depending on the risk profile) choose to check the load. Most trucks won't be checked, and on exit from GB, the UK Customs can also check to make sure that nothing was left along the way. They have pretty comprehensive systems to tell them who and what to investigate as well as personal experience.

For instance, let's say a truck is going from Dover to Holyhead. It's 371 miles, so realistically, you'd expect the truck to arrive within 9 hours or so of arrival in the UK. The first thing would be to ask for a tachograph print out if you suspect something is wrong, such as a transit time in excess of 9 hours. If it shows that a break was taken for an odd period of time, it would be a clear hint that something's been dropped off on the way and that the load should be inspected to see if it matches the declaration on entry.

If it turns out that the load doesn't match what's listed, then the UK Customs can take the "customs bond" that every haulier will be obliged to have if they want to take advantage of the Common Transit System. They'll also be on the naughty list in future, so both the driver and the company can expect to be pulled constantly.

As a result, there's no need to physically seal the loads - though you can do if you want to operate according to the TIR rules instead. There's little sense in doing so though, as the Common Transit System is cheaper and easier to deal with.

Going back to this route, the 24 hours is intentional. It allows drivers to take a weekly rest onboard the ferry, and I believe the regulations have now changed, meaning truckers must have proper accommodation for those 24 hours rather than sleeping in the cab. Dunkirk is also much more accessible for trucks doing runs from the CEE. The amount saved on tolls and accommodation will probably mean that the ferry pays for itself, too.

 

[43055]

The first two ferries for the DFDS route has been confirmed.
First of DFDS's new Rosslare - Dunkerque ferries confirmed | NI Ferry Site

First of DFDS’s new Rosslare – Dunkerque ferries confirmed​

Steven Tarbox Follow on TwitterDecember 11, 2020Last Updated: December 11, 2020
1 minute read

The first two of three ferries to be deployed on DFDS’s new “Brexit Buster” Rosslare – Dunkerque route have been named. KERRY, which was previously used on Brittany Ferries Rosslare – Bilbao route will be joined by Rederi AB Gotland’s VISBY. The identity of the third vessel is expected to be confirmed next week.
Industry publisher and information service Shippax has received confirmation of the vessels direct from DFDS. This follows a report from France earlier today. KERRY is already on charter with DFDS and is currently providing additional capacity on the Kiel – Klaipeda route.

Both ships had been named in speculation following the announcement of the new route late last month.

KERRY. Brittany Ferries / Jose Luis Diaz Campa.
While KERRY is well known in Irish shipping and haulage circles, VISBY is a new vessel to both the English Channel and Irish Sea. Completed by Guangzhou Shipyard in 2003, the ship was originally designed for the Visby – Nynashamn/Oskarshamn service in Sweden. Although configured as a day ferry, VISBY also has 119 passenger cabins onboard. By contrast, KERRY has 79.
VISBY was designed to sail at up to 28 knots, though it seems unlikely DFDS will utilise this speed given the high fuel consumption required to achieve it. According to an earlier announcement by Rederi AB Gotland, VISBY has been chartered until May with the option of an extension.

KERRY will become the fourth Visentini series Ro-Pax in service between Ireland and Continental Europe when she joins the route. The others are Irish Ferries EPSILON, Stena Line’s STENA HORIZON, and Brittany Ferries CONNEMARA. The Dunkerque – Rosslare service is expected to start next month once the UK leaves the current EU transition arrangements.

Visby technical data​

Built	2003, Guangzhou Shipyard International (GSI), China
Gross tonnage	29, 746
Length	196 metres
Beam	25.00 metres
Draught	6.40 metres
Freight Capacity	18,00 lane metres

A full profile for VISBY will be added to NI Ferry Site in due course.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

'Unaccompanied' trailers are quite common on many (longer) ferry routes, including across the North Sea as well as Continent <-> Ireland. There is absolutely no point paying a driver to twiddle his thumbs in a cabin for 24 hours or to tie up an expensive tractor unit not turning a wheel for that time.

Isn't that how the suffocated Vietnamese migrants were transported?
They were locked in before the trailer was boarded at Zeebrugge and only opened up after it was collected at Purfleet.
And this was on a relatively short sea crossing.

 

[BayPaul]

FWIW, direct Cork(?)/Rosslare/Dublin to the continent ferries are few, I think they doubled in January to make up for the problems, even if they tripled or quadrupled it doesn't compare much to the 4 daily from South Wales, the 6(ish?) from North Wales, and the four from Cairnryan, or the one(?) from Liverpool to Belfast, the one(?) from Liverpool to Dublin etc. The trade between UK and the island of Ireland is huge.

One ship can make a lot of daily sailings for a 4 hour trip, a 12 hour one locks up your ship for far longer.

Moving my reply here to be more on topic...

Far from it. There are 5.5 ferries running from Ireland to Wales (2x Stena Holyhead, 1.5 X Irish Holyhead, 1x Irish Pembroke, 1x Stena Fishguard). To the continent there are now
- 1.5 Irish Dublin-Cherbourg
- 2 Stena Rosslare - Cherbourg
- 3 DFDS Rosslare - Dunkirk
- 0.5 Brittany Rosslare - Cherbourg
- 1 Brittany Rosslare - Bilbao
- 1 Brittany Rosslare/Cork - Roscoff/St Malo
- 3 (I think) CLDN Dublin - Zeebrugge /Rotterdam
- 1 (I think) CLDN Cork - Zeebrugge
- 1 CLDN Dublin - Spain

Making about 14 in total. They make around a quarter of the number of crossings as on the 4 hour routes per ship, but the number of sailings per week isn't far off the number of sailings out of Holyhead, and by all accounts they are sailing pretty full, so they may well be carrying more traffic to France than to Wales.

I could certainly imagining one or both of the Pembroke routes shutting, as their business case is pretty marginal, and if they have lost 50% of their freight it could easily be the end of the line.

 

[berneyarms]

Samskip also have a weekly Dublin-Amsterdam lo-lo container service.

 

[fishwomp]

Moving my reply here to be more on topic...

Far from it. There are 5.5 ferries running from Ireland to Wales (2x Stena Holyhead, 1.5 X Irish Holyhead, 1x Irish Pembroke, 1x Stena Fishguard). To the continent there are now
- 1.5 Irish Dublin-Cherbourg
- 2 Stena Rosslare - Cherbourg
- 3 DFDS Rosslare - Dunkirk
- 0.5 Brittany Rosslare - Cherbourg
- 1 Brittany Rosslare - Bilbao
- 1 Brittany Rosslare/Cork - Roscoff/St Malo
- 3 (I think) CLDN Dublin - Zeebrugge /Rotterdam
- 1 (I think) CLDN Cork - Zeebrugge
- 1 CLDN Dublin - Spain

Making about 14 in total. They make around a quarter of the number of crossings as on the 4 hour routes per ship, but the number of sailings per week isn't far off the number of sailings out of Holyhead, and by all accounts they are sailing pretty full, so they may well be carrying more traffic to France than to Wales.

I could certainly imagining one or both of the Pembroke routes shutting, as their business case is pretty marginal, and if they have lost 50% of their freight it could easily be the end of the line.

Thanks - that's a lot more than I realized, ie. there was already a lot of non-UK options. I hadn't been casting as far wide as Zeebrugge - at some point had to draw a line, or we'd be including the container ships from China!

How many are new sailings Brexit era?

Is the money in the UK/Ireland services from passenger or freight - both have been whacked this year for different reasons. Geographically, when people can travel again, Pembrokeshire will still be the closest route to southern and much of west part of Ireland from London for the car traffic. I guess you need both freight and passenger to survive as the night ferry would normally be dead for passengers.

 

[craigybagel]

Thanks - that's a lot more than I realized, ie. there was already a lot of non-UK options. I hadn't been casting as far wide as Zeebrugge - at some point had to draw a line, or we'd be including the container ships from China!

How many are new sailings Brexit era?

Is the money in the UK/Ireland services from passenger or freight - both have been whacked this year for different reasons. Geographically, when people can travel again, Pembrokeshire will still be the closest route to southern and much of west part of Ireland from London for the car traffic. I guess you need both freight and passenger to survive as the night ferry would normally be dead for passengers.

12 months ago, from Ireland to France you had:
Stena Line 3 weekly year round from Rosslare
Irish Ferries 3 weekly Winter 3½ weekly Summer from Dublin
Brittany Ferries weekly from Rosslare year round, plus weekly from Cork in Summer
You also had Brittany twice weekly to Spain from Rosslare and some (but not all) of the CLDN freight only services.

It has been a dramatic change that I don't think anybody really predicted.

Obviously there are question marks as to how sustainable it all is (and the DFDS Zeebrugge service requires 3 ships all on charter and all only making 2 round trips each per week, which can't be cheap) but if it continues like this for much longer it's hard to see how the Fishguard service can be anything but doomed.

Even before all of this, there were question marks around the Pembrokeshire services, and the Fishguard service in particularly. Stena Europe, the vessel Stena Line use on their Rosslare - Fishguard service is well past the point of being considered "aging", and whilst it's had some life extension work done over the last few years it clearly can't go on much longer. But there are no obvious replacements for it within the Stena Fleet, and when it's away on refit or covering for other ships (as it is this week, in Dublin) they don't always cover it - cancelling the service instead and sending traffic to Pembroke and Irish Ferries. It's hard to see that there's really a need for two ferries covering this area these days, and Irish Ferries' Isle of Inishmore is both much newer and much larger.

Rail and sail traffic would miss out with the closing of Fishguard (and there are fewer interchanges between train and large ferry more convenient than Fishguard!) but that traffic is pretty negligible these days. For almost everyone else, a single ferry service through Pembroke would suffice.

 

[BayPaul]

Thanks - that's a lot more than I realized, ie. there was already a lot of non-UK options. I hadn't been casting as far wide as Zeebrugge - at some point had to draw a line, or we'd be including the container ships from China!

How many are new sailings Brexit era?

Is the money in the UK/Ireland services from passenger or freight - both have been whacked this year for different reasons. Geographically, when people can travel again, Pembrokeshire will still be the closest route to southern and much of west part of Ireland from London for the car traffic. I guess you need both freight and passenger to survive as the night ferry would normally be dead for passengers.

Almost all ferries are basically freight ferries with passengers being a small extra bonus - in the UK Brittany Ferries are apparently the exception being much more reliant on holiday traffic, and so most of their fleet is currently laid up.

I think @craigybagel answered all your other questions, and his analysis looks spot on to me! The other route that may struggle is P&O's Liverpool to Dublin service, which suffers from under investment already, and had a period last year where there were apparently threats to arrest their ships for allegedly unpaid bills.

 

[fishwomp]

Almost all ferries are basically freight ferries with passengers being a small extra bonus - in the UK Brittany Ferries are apparently the exception being much more reliant on holiday traffic, and so most of their fleet is currently laid up.

I think @craigybagel answered all your other questions, and his analysis looks spot on to me! The other route that may struggle is P&O's Liverpool to Dublin service, which suffers from under investment already, and had a period last year where there were apparently threats to arrest their ships for allegedly unpaid bills.

Yes, thanks to both of you for that.

 

[craigybagel]

I think @craigybagel answered all your other questions, and his analysis looks spot on to me! The other route that may struggle is P&O's Liverpool to Dublin service, which suffers from under investment already, and had a period last year where there were apparently threats to arrest their ships for allegedly unpaid bills.

Thank you - and yes, I had forgotten about P&Os Liverpool service but I do agree it's facing a worrying future. P&O have long since shown they'd rather close than invest and if the numbers there are dropping at the same rate as the other ROI-UK routes it's hard to see it lasting much longer.

 

[berneyarms]

P & O have strong competition also from Seatruck Ferries who operate:

Heysham-Warrenpoint
Heysham-Dublin
Liverpool-Dublin

 

[paul1609]

Thank you - and yes, I had forgotten about P&Os Liverpool service but I do agree it's facing a worrying future. P&O have long since shown they'd rather close than invest and if the numbers there are dropping at the same rate as the other ROI-UK routes it's hard to see it lasting much longer.

Surely the issue is what the percentage of the Irish- UK ferry traffic goes on to the EU and vice versa. Obviously Im a regular on the M20 and whilst yes I do see Irish Lorries I wouldnt say they are a very high proportion of the Kent to EU traffic.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

For holidaymakers & private travel between Eire and the mainland a long ferry trip be very enjoyable, much better than two ferries and lots of driving in between