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Differences in style/leadership/etc between the RMT and ASLEF

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Bletchleyite

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A balanced and considered response from ASLEF that.

I think it's fair to say that in general ASLEF do take a fairly pragmatic line, looking after their members but accepting that "stuff changes", whereas the RMT remain a far more ideological organisation with a very left-wing view.
 

Mikey C

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I think it's fair to say that in general ASLEF do take a fairly pragmatic line, looking after their members but accepting that "stuff changes", whereas the RMT remain a far more ideological organisation with a very left-wing view.
Yes the RMT response was a predictable bit of sloganeering
 

Speed43125

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I think it's fair to say that in general ASLEF do take a fairly pragmatic line, looking after their members but accepting that "stuff changes", whereas the RMT remain a far more ideological organisation with a very left-wing view.
I think it's fair to say both are left leaning (though understandably so given the industry they represent effectively relies on government subsidy), but ASLEF seem to be a lot more careful with what fights they do pick, and seem to consequently be rather more successful on those issues.
RMT statements certainly seem to be very easy to brush off as typical resistant union bosh-talk.
 

WatcherZero

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Funny, didnt the RMT only a couple of days ago demand that Grand Central jobs are protected because 'An OAA can provide much needed services that a TOC cannot' or words to that effect.
 

Horizon22

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I think it's fair to say both are left leaning (though understandably so given the industry they represent effectively relies on government subsidy), but ASLEF seem to be a lot more careful with what fights they do pick, and seem to consequently be rather more successful on those issues.
RMT statements certainly seem to be very easy to brush off as typical resistant union bosh-talk.

Both are perhaps left-leaning - although the RMT are about to fall over - but ASLEF certainly are more pragmatic and will change their tune when money is involved in my experience.
 

Tyrion

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I think it's fair to say that in general ASLEF do take a fairly pragmatic line, looking after their members but accepting that "stuff changes", whereas the RMT remain a far more ideological organisation with a very left-wing view.

ASLEF Generally are pragmatic, they are still pro putting railways back in public hands but still have a job to do and while not always perfect try to move with the times. I do not get impression Mick Whelan wants to go back to the “good ole BR days” ..
RMT often seem like a fight waiting to happen and need to pick their battles more carefully a lot of the time imo!
 

The Ham

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RMT often seem like a fight waiting to happen and need to pick their battles more carefully a lot of the time imo!

I suspect that the idea that the RMT pick battles (and not just fight everything) may make a few laugh.
 

dk1

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The diffference between both main unions response is stark & wont come as a surprise to many.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Sometimes I think the RMT are so far on the left of the political spectrum, they are actually on the far right.

They got Corbyn's 2019 Labour Manifesto to include a clause to revoke DOO - micromanaging the railway.
Still waiting to hear what Starmer's rail policy is - keeping quiet until the hard decisions are made by other people, I think.
 
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Meerkat

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That would have been undeliverable, and quickly forgotten about.
The RMT would have got a commitment to recruit a guard for every train with no customer obligations and not too bothered about putting in any door controls for them to play with - ‘pass me the paper, I will be in the back cab’
 

yorkie

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Can I ask the reason why you think this would be undeliverable? Cost, recruitment or something else?
I think this would be best posted in a separate thread as it's a whole subject in its own right. I can think of all sorts of reasons, but it's highly speculative. If anyone wishes to create one, feel free to post a link here, and I'll reply there.
 

bluesfromagun

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Don't even get me started on the RMT, the leadership haven't a brain cell between them. They're a union, they are there solely to represent the wishes
 

Scottychoo

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I think it's fair to say both are left leaning (though understandably so given the industry they represent effectively relies on government subsidy), but ASLEF seem to be a lot more careful with what fights they do pick, and seem to consequently be rather more successful on those issues.
RMT statements certainly seem to be very easy to brush off as typical resistant union bosh-talk.
That's because ASLEF got battered a few years ago and lost a shed load of money in court over the GATEX 12 car dispute. They are skint and therefore can't pick any fights, making them as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike
 

DB

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Don't even get me started on the RMT, the leadership haven't a brain cell between them. They're a union, they are there solely to represent the wishes

They are also crap at getting their message across - even when they have a valid point (and to be fair, they often do), rather than focusing on that and what they want done about it they tend to go off into a rant about privtisation. They do this even when the thing they are objecting to (e.g. the Northern guards' dispute) is actually being pushed by the government.
 

357

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I've been a member of both and always found ASLEF better. The TOC I work for has drivers in both RMT and ASLEF, however the number in the RMT I believe is single digits.
 

dk1

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That's because ASLEF got battered a few years ago and lost a shed load of money in court over the GATEX 12 car dispute. They are skint and therefore can't pick any fights, making them as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike
I think you'll find the opposite. It usually only takes a threat of working to rule & no free day working or overtime for management to back down. Its very rare that ASLEF needs to flex its muscles to any extent.
 

Bald Rick

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Can I ask the reason why you think this would be undeliverable? Cost, recruitment or something else?

all of the above. Just providing enough guards for GTR would cost about £100m a year. Add in Anglia, southeastern, GWR, Chiltern, c2c, and it adds up to a LOT of cash with no discernible benefit.

And where would it stop? Just main line TOCs? Or would the Underground need guards? What’s about Trams? Bendy buses?
 

tiptoptaff

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I think this would be best posted in a separate thread as it's a whole subject in its own right. I can think of all sorts of reasons, but it's highly speculative. If anyone wishes to create one, feel free to post a link here, and I'll reply there.

Thread created, it's certainly worthy of some decent speculative discussion

Would ending DOO be unfeasible?
 

philthetube

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I think you'll find the opposite. It usually only takes a threat of working to rule & no free day working or overtime for management to back down. Its very rare that ASLEF needs to flex its muscles to any extent.
Because Aslef only have drivers and staff on promotion lines to drivers as members, and pick the fights that members feel strongly about, they are much stronger.

Where I work the RMT have a reputation for relying on certain key grades doing the work for them while other grades work normally, therefore their disputes don't have the same effect as they lose members from these key grades.
 

LowLevel

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I think you'll find the opposite. It usually only takes a threat of working to rule & no free day working or overtime for management to back down. Its very rare that ASLEF needs to flex its muscles to any extent.

Or if in doubt the old ASLEF favourite of "the members won't like the deal but we will agree it anyway and hope they will have forgotten in a year - if they really, really won't like it best not even have a referendum" :lol:
 

GRALISTAIR

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I think it's fair to say that in general ASLEF do take a fairly pragmatic line, looking after their members but accepting that "stuff changes", whereas the RMT remain a far more ideological organisation with a very left-wing view.
In the 1970s and 1980s it was the reverse. Of course in those days it was the NUR and ASLEF.
 

Ashley Hill

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One reason ASLE&F might be successful is that drivers are currently the only grade that cannot easily be disposed of. If the drivers threaten to ballot then management either bend over or up the payment. For RMT guards,platform staff etc management will just stand their ground until it all blows over. Look at Southern,what good did they're guards strike action do?
Its true that the RMT do carry on as if it's still 1970. Many of their press releases read like they've been written by Frank Kite! They do need to move on and be more progressive and less reactionary. It's not always difficult to predict what's around the corner and it's better to interact early than be too late.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Also, since privatisation ASLEF members have done rather well in terms of pay and conditions. If you get paid OK it tends to help. Then dont bite the hand that feeds you. Fleet Street made that mistake in the 1960s-1980s -they got very greedy.
 

falcon

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #19 originally in this thread.


A balanced and considered response from ASLEF that.
ASLEF do not want nationalisation. They would loose all the power they have, that which has seen massive increases in salaries way beyond any other rail workers salaries.

ASLEF tried to demand massive pay rises under nationalisation and Sir Peter Parker told them to get back to work otherwise he would shut the railway down.

Under privatisation, their short lived general secretary Mick Rix advocated re-nationalisation. He was then booted out at the next election.

ASLEF is about one thing and one thing only. Drivers and how much money they can get for them.

They should not be called a union, a better description would be conservative club.
 

dctraindriver

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ASLEF do not want nationalisation. They would loose all the power they have, that which has seen massive increases in salaries way beyond any other rail workers salaries.

ASLEF tried to demand massive pay rises under nationalisation and Sir Peter Parker told them to get back to work otherwise he would shut the railway down.

Under privatisation, their short lived general secretary Mick Rix advocated re-nationalisation. He was then booted out at the next election.

ASLEF is about one thing and one thing only. Drivers and how much money they can get for them.

They should not be called a union, a better description would be conservative club.
Aslef have been banging on about nationalisation of the railways since privatisation....

 
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