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DLR Manual Operation, when and why?

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43021HST

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On a number of occasions I've seen the onboard member of staff takeover the driving controls. But I'm never too sure why, could anyone here shed some light on when and why this is required?

I've noticed at Canning Town certain services do a reversal move which requires manual operation, so I'm guessing depot shunting may require that as well, but any answers would be much appreciated.
 
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CyrusWuff

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I've experienced it a couple of times that I can recall:
  • Once was between West India Quay and Poplar, when the Automatic Train Protection system thought there was a train in the block ahead of the one I was on, so brought us to a halt. The Train Captain (as they were then called) had to take manual control to get us into Poplar, where I believe the train had to be taken out of service as they'd had to isolate the ATP to do so.
  • Another was between All Saints and Poplar, when the train in front became "gapped" so lost power, and the one I was on had to assist it from the rear. As demonstrated in this video:
 

Peter C

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I've been on a DLR service with someone in the driving seat; from what I remember it wasn't because there were issues with the train but I think there were delays on the line or something. Quite interesting to see the control panel for the unit, and also interesting to see how one person kept asking questions when the lady was in control!

-Peter
 

Ianno87

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I've seen it done when a station is closed - take control on approach, then let the computer take over when passed through.
 

MP33

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I used to commute on the DLR and one time there was driver and another member of staff asking them questions about the rule book. It appeared that they were having some sort of driving test.
 

whoosh

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It's been a considerable number of years since I've ridden the DLR, but at the time it was mandated that they used the control console at the front after 21:00 - although ATO was still used. This was to view any staggering drunkards on platforms and hit the emergency brake button with greater efficiency than by being further back in the train.

I think they had to have a drive on a Sunday morning for about an hour as well to retain competency, but I don't know if either of those things are the case now.
 

Backroom_boy

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I've experienced it a couple of times that I can recall:
  • Once was between West India Quay and Poplar, when the Automatic Train Protection system thought there was a train in the block ahead of the one I was on, so brought us to a halt. The Train Captain (as they were then called) had to take manual control to get us into Poplar, where I believe the train had to be taken out of service as they'd had to isolate the ATP to do so.
Why is the 'Train Captain' job title no longer used?
 

Mojo

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FWIW, Manual operation (as in the act of actually driving the train) is actually quite uncommon. Most of the time the staff are just at the front to operate the doors etc.
Why is the 'Train Captain' job title no longer used?
It’s very old fashioned. Has been Passenger Service Agent for a number of years now.
 

PeterC

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Is it still the case that they have to be taken manually into the platform if the emergency brake is applied?

I know that this was an issue with the original doors that could easily be forced open before the train stopped.
 

Clip

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In normal operation it's up to them, whatever they want to do.
This isn't true. There are very strict rules around when they can't drive it.
I've been on a DLR service with someone in the driving seat; from what I remember it wasn't because there were issues with the train but I think there were delays on the line or something. Quite interesting to see the control panel for the unit, and also interesting to see how one person kept asking questions when the lady was in control!

-Peter
Sometimes they just sit there and do the doors from there but not driving it.
 

Chris M

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In normal times, a train being operated in ATO with the driver at the front is not uncommon. I believe that where they operate the doors from is down to the discretion of the staff member in normal circumstances as long as they do a certain amount of ticket checks per shift.
At times control will tell the PSA to operate from the the front for various reasons, including passengers acting dangerously on a platform and potential point failures (where the indicators need to be observed). It's also routine to operate from the front in high winds, when there are staff on or about the track, the first service of the day and the first service after engineering works (the latter two following the Depford Bridge derailment in 2008 when the train hit some equipment that had been left on the track - https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/der...way-train-near-deptford-bridge-station-london ).

Actual manual driving (outside depots) is very rare - the only time I've experienced it is on the test evacuation event for the Stratford International extension. PSAs need permission from control and it's only done during failure conditions as there is a very slow speed limit (5mph?)
 

Taunton

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My local line past the house for many years. "Driven" from the front for several reasons, which can include being fully automatic driving but them just doing the doors from there, which is why there are mirrors/CCTV at all stations. If really being driven manually there is now a speed limit and the 4-way flashers on the car ends, like a tram, are flashing. Other reasons are if there are workers on the line (to sound the horn), reports of trespassers, or on empty trains non-stopping stations, again to sound the horn at each one. This likely accounts for trains reversing at Canning Town, not a scheduled service point but now going empty to the depot at Gallions Reach. They all used to run in service to and from here but the latest concessionaire stopped this.

There were two separate sidelong collisions a good while ago southbound at West India Quay with manually driven trains colliding, one of which I actually witnessed from the road below, although I didn't know so until I saw the evening news.

And a further reason, especially in winter, is, as one of them told me one day, "it's warmer up here than at the doors". This used to be pretty optional, but the accident at Bank where a passenger was trapped and dragged, just managing to escape from their caught coat in time, led to a substantial restriction on this. There were various comments by me on here (use the Search) at the time of the RAIB report into this into how managed, or not, such operation from the front had become.

I see the new trains on order have a more substantial division for any staff working from there, although it doesn't happen that much, done by reducing the forward-facing seats, always the most popular on the train especially for tourists, at all times. Good old operations triumphing over customer convenience.

Old fashioned or not, I still call the staff the Train Captain. Can make them smile!
 

rebmcr

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Actual manual driving (outside depots) is very rare - the only time I've experienced it is on the test evacuation event for the Stratford International extension. PSAs need permission from control and it's only done during failure conditions as there is a very slow speed limit (5mph?)
I've also had that exactly once. Crush loaded on approach to Royal Victoria eastbound in the afternoon peak, the ATO failed to reach its 'docking' position for the platform (and sat down). The Train Captain had to use the emergency end doors to make their way forward from the rear unit!
 

rogercov

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I've been on it when it was driven manually through the tunnel section from Woolwich. The "driver" said it was because there had been reports of trespassers on the line.
 

Boo_

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Sometimes on Sundays they will do a drill that all trains are put on Manual for a short time. All staff have to do so every so often Manuel driving to keep up to date with their licence so they sometimes ask them to do it between set points when there not busy.
 

eoff

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The first few times I visited London and used the DLR I saw the train being driven manually, I just assumed this was normal for part of the route (it only happened part-route and as a result I avoided those two seats). In recent years however this has not happened.
 

Taunton

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There still seems a confusion here about DLR "manual driving". Despite the operator being sat at the front console with the desk open, this is almost always still under normal automatic control. They can do the doors just as well from the controls there as from the actual doorway. If they are watching the line ahead to react to any issue advised, it's still normal auto driving. Real manual driving involves tedious progress with a maximum speed of 10mph and a stream of radio messages back and forth with control for each step.
 

bramling

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There still seems a confusion here about DLR "manual driving". Despite the operator being sat at the front console with the desk open, this is almost always still under normal automatic control. They can do the doors just as well from the controls there as from the actual doorway. If they are watching the line ahead to react to any issue advised, it's still normal auto driving. Real manual driving involves tedious progress with a maximum speed of 10mph and a stream of radio messages back and forth with control for each step.

This isn’t quite true; the Seltrac system has two modes for manual driving. One allows full-speed operation with full continuous ATP supervision of both movement authority and speed. The other mode is for degraded working and in that mode the train is physically limited to slow speed as described, and authority will be from the control centre staff having made appropriate safety arrangements.
 

D6975

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When the low level line through Stratford first opened, the automatic systems weren't fully commissioned north of Stratford up to the International platforms. All trains were routinely driven on manual until it was all up and running. I asked the driver why he was driving manually and this was his explanation.
 

RAPC

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We were asked to move from the front seats by a member of staff on a journey last January as he was opening up the panel to drive manually. It was a quiet weekend evening service, so we just moved to the seats behind as they were empty.

He then very kindly gave my daughter (who was 5 at the time) a bit of an overview of what he was doing. He also got her to make an announcement at West India Quay that the next stop was Canary Wharf. She was delighted by that!
 

matt_world2004

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I've seen them.manually driven when there has either been a football.match or concert and there's loads of people on the platform.presume it was because they can detect obstructions that the signalling system can't.
 

matt_world2004

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Is there any fallen passenger etc. detection fitted at stations?
I don't think there is. There was an incident a year ago as a result of this

I think the control rooms have CCTV of every station and I think they red signal if they see someone on the tracks.
 

TheManWho

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Is there any fallen passenger etc. detection fitted at stations?
There is no "obstruction detection" currently fitted to the B92 or B2007 fleet. Stations are monitored by CCTV and the DLR Control Centre have Emergency Stop buttons that can be used to close a section of the line if there are, for example, trespassers on the tracks
 

Taunton

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I've seen DLR trespassers on a couple of occasions, crossing the tracks between platforms, and nothing seemed to come of it; next train a minute or two later ran as normal. The operator at Poplar can switch to see the CCTV of any station, which is not the same as constant monitoring.

There was an incident a year ago, but fortunately the DLR has always seemed free of those issues that regularly impact the Underground.
 
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Clip

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I've seen DLR trespassers on a couple of occasions, crossing the tracks between platforms, and nothing seemed to come of it; next train a minute or two later ran as normal. The operator at Poplar can switch to see the CCTV of any station, which is not the same as constant monitoring.

There was an incident a year ago, but fortunately the DLR has always seemed free of those issues that regularly impact the Underground.
I don't think they have used poplar as their control centre for over 10 years now. All beckton based.
 

bramling

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I've seen DLR trespassers on a couple of occasions, crossing the tracks between platforms, and nothing seemed to come of it; next train a minute or two later ran as normal. The operator at Poplar can switch to see the CCTV of any station, which is not the same as constant monitoring.

There was an incident a year ago, but fortunately the DLR has always seemed free of those issues that regularly impact the Underground.

I’d be surprised if they are required to monitor every station constantly, as that would place an extreme burden on the control staff, in that should they lose attention for a moment and something were to happen in that time then they could be held liable. No one is going to accept, nor realistically should be required to hold, that burden of responsibility.
 

matt_world2004

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I’d be surprised if they are required to monitor every station constantly, as that would place an extreme burden on the control staff, in that should they lose attention for a moment and something were to happen in that time then they could be held liable. No one is going to accept, nor realistically should be required to hold, that burden of responsibility.
I would have thought it would have been a large video wall with each staff member being required to monitor something like 10 stations.

Until recently it was based at west ferry circus..iirc
 
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