Does Ilkley have enough capacity ?

[Halifaxlad]

Currently Ikley station can comfortably fit 4, 4 car 333 units at any one time, usually it about two but on occasion I have seen 3, 333s at the same time.

Obviously when these 333s are exchanged for 3 car 331s and start running around as 6 car sets Ikley will only be able to accommodate 2 sets of 6 at any one time.

I am more familiar with the Aire Valley than the Wharf Valley and Ive been curious for a while if there is enough capacity at Ikley to handle this change ?

 

[bluenoxid]

You’re missing an L in Ilkley but I get the gist of your thread.

I am also unfamiliar with Ilkley station. The crossovers and signals would need to be shifted based on a quick review of the station layout on Googlemaps if anyone wanted to accommodate 2 6 car trains in the station at the same time. I guess that it is unlikely that this scenario will develop as the Bradford service is unlikely to be a 6 car train.

 

[YorksLad12]

The copy of the Sectional Appendix I have (Feb 2021) says that Ilkley's platforms are both 199m long with the signals 2m further along, so you couldn't get nine 23m carriages (=207m) in either. Units tend to lay over at Forster Square though, not Ilkley (that I've seen), so it's likely to still be one unit/consist arrives from Leeds and heads off to Bradford, and vice versa. You'd have to assume that if work was required it would have been scheduled by now.

 

[jonesy3001]

I live in otley which is down the road from menston station on the ilkley line and 2 4 car trains can fit on either platform at ilkley, only the stations on the line can only accommodate 4 car trains.
Unless there is plans to extend them.

 

[driverd]

Units tend to lay over at Forster Square though, not Ilkley (that I've seen), so it's likely to still be one unit/consist arrives from Leeds and heads off to Bradford, and vice versa. You'd have to assume that if work was required it would have been scheduled by now.

True until you get to the evening - it's quite often the case that you'll have 4 units in Ilkley Station. Annoyingly, the infrastructure isn't set up for it as there is no platform 1a/1b, just platform 1 and 2. Often people will stand by the wrong train and not notice the unit almost 100m ahead.

In all honesty, I expect the 2x 3 car 331 plan is all but dead and buried thanks to covid.

 

[Halish Railway]

Two units are stored on the same platform overnight, with the front unit forming the first train of the day to Bradford and the rear unit forming the first service to Leeds. The other platform is kept spare so that the RHTT can use it (when it runs).

My suggestion would be to have the Leeds service worked by a single 331/0, coupling up the another 331/0 at Leeds to form a six carriage train.

In all honesty, I expect the 2x 3 car 331 plan is all but dead and buried thanks to covid.

It’s still very much alive, the required 331/0s will move east once sufficient 323s arrive from WMR. Funding for platform extensions have also been announced along the Airedale line. My bet is that SDO will be used for 6-car workings on the Wharfedale line.

 

[urbophile]

The copy of the Sectional Appendix I have (Feb 2021) says that Ilkley's platforms are both 199m long with the signals 2m further along, so you couldn't get nine 23m carriages (=207m) in either. Units tend to lay over at Forster Square though, not Ilkley (that I've seen), so it's likely to still be one unit/consist arrives from Leeds and heads off to Bradford, and vice versa. You'd have to assume that if work was required it would have been scheduled by now.

You'd have thought that, but Merseyrail appear to have forgotten the similar need at Southport when the whole network had platform alterations a few years ago. The Southport line will be the last to get the new 777s because the platforms aren't long enough for an eight-coach train.

 

[Mollman]

I don't think you need to worry. The 6-car 331s are replacing 4-car 331s, the 333s are not going anywhere. I think the plan was for 6 car trains on the Leeds - Skipton and Leeds - Bradford corridor, if Ilkley get any it might be a handful a day.

 

[driverd]

Two units are stored on the same platform overnight, with the front unit forming the first train of the day to Bradford and the rear unit forming the first service to Leeds. The other platform is kept spare so that the RHTT can use it (when it runs).

Except when there's 3 units up there. Quite often a spare sits up there (usually on the up platform). Also at various points in the evening its quite normal for 4 units in the station.

It’s still very much alive, the required 331/0s will move east once sufficient 323s arrive from WMR. Funding for platform extensions have also been announced along the Airedale line. My bet is that SDO will be used for 6-car workings on the Wharfedale line.

How surprising - they're cutting the timetable back in May yet still planning to increase capacity?

I don't think you need to worry. The 6-car 331s are replacing 4-car 331s, the 333s are not going anywhere. I think the plan was for 6 car trains on the Leeds - Skipton and Leeds - Bradford corridor, if Ilkley get any it might be a handful a day.

Problem is that all current triangle diagrams are interworked. Any splitting of the diagrams would result in extra units being required.

 

[xotGD]

they're cutting the timetable back in May yet still planning to increase capacity?

More capacity to Leeds, where people want to go.

Less capacity to Bradford, where they don't.

 

[YorksLad12]

Problem is that all current triangle diagrams are interworked. Any splitting of the diagrams would result in extra units being required.

This might come under speculation (I think most of the thread does, to be fair), but: it may be that the five routes are delinked at some point, if the timetable becomes unsustainable (if someone builds a couple of new stations somewhere). It's unlikely that you would then run threes to/from Bradford, fours Leeds-Bradford and sixes to/from Leeds though - that would be silly. Leeds needs sixes during the peaks, not off-peak. It's late, and I'm rambling.

 

[MarkyT]

If there was a desire to achieve 9 car (or greater) standage for new rolling stock at Ilkley, the left-hand crossover nearest the platforms might be replaced in a new position further east, with the platform starting signals relocated to suit. The nearest end of the other right-hand crossover of the terminus throat is nearly 350m from the platform ends, and the track in between is approximately straight so there should be little difficulty. The layout would be functionally exactly the same from a signalling POV, so such work would need minimal interlocking and control centre changes.

 

[Bantamzen]

More capacity to Leeds, where people want to go.

Less capacity to Bradford, where they don't.

That assumes that all 4 car 331s will be replaced by 2*3 car 331s, and I'll bet you a pound that they won't. So that will mean a capacity reduction even for Leeds passengers at times, with the additional of passengers moving between Skipton-Bradford, and Ilkley-Bradford ending up on Leeds trains for at least part of their journey. And plus not all flows point towards Leeds, especially in the summer when daytime & evening services to places like Saltaire, Skipton & Ilkley can be very popular from both cities.

 

[Allwinter_Kit]

In all honesty, I expect the 2x 3 car 331 plan is all but dead and buried thanks to covid.

Really hope not - on the train this morning we were leaving people on the platform with a 4 car 331 (although the train before had been cancelled due to "a fault on the train") down the Airedale.

Are the platform lengthening works going ahead / do they have a timetable or are they just going to use SDO at all the shorter platforms instead do we know?

 

[Ken H]

Really hope not - on the train this morning we were leaving people on the platform with a 4 car 331 (although the train before had been cancelled due to "a fault on the train") down the Airedale.

Are the platform lengthening works going ahead / do they have a timetable or are they just going to use SDO at all the shorter platforms instead do we know?

How do you lengthen Bingley, crammed in between a tunnel and an overbridge? Or have narrow catwalks through the overbridge? Or SDO?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Are the platform lengthening works going ahead / do they have a timetable or are they just going to use SDO at all the shorter platforms instead do we know?

From my understanding it was going to be like with the Airedale line, i.e. relying on SDO!