That's a seismic shift for this Republican party.
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Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency
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A Challenge
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I had heard it said (on BBC's Americast) that the longer they left it the harder they would find it to get the Republicans on side but I wasn't expecting it to be this quickly, I merely thought they meant that as an argument for not waiting two weeks. Seems like it might be a problem even now, so much as I hope Citizen Trump (how nice to type that!) will be
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He's already been impeached. The question is if they can get him barred from holding office in future.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
And not helped by the way Trump and his supporters are even now seeking to have any senators or representatives who vote against Trump challenged and removed at the next primaries.
Once again, I look with bafflement at the way the US system mixes up politics and justice. Much as I hope Trump is found guilty and barred from further office, it seems absurd that the judges in the trial are not trained professional judges, but politicians, all of whom have clear vested interests in the outcome of the trial - a fact that of course enables the defendant (Trump) and his supporters to try to influence the vote with political threats that - in any 'normal' context - would be rightfully viewed as an attempt to subvert justice (and in the UK I'm guessing would see a charge of something like contempt of court being swiftly brought).
birchesgreen
Established Member
The GOP is still Trump's party and they are scared of doing anything to upset their Trump supporting base. The recent actions by the Arizona party have been interesting, no sense of moving on at all.
That's because, despite using the language of - "jury", "trial", "conviction" - and the trappings of - calling of witnesses, arguments and deliberations - a legal proceeding, impeachment and removal is a political process that sits outside the justice system. The only thing that the process is designed to determine is if the accused is fit to hold office, either now or in the future.
To highlight that this is not a criminal proceeding, consider that the only punishment they can impose is removal from and barring from future office, regardless of if the offence was murder or excessive flatulence.
Sorry if this has been reported elsewhere
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/biden-news-live-republican-party-suffers-mass-exodus-as-fbi-thwarts-plot-against-california-governor/ar-BB1daoRy?ocid=msedgntp
The italicising is mine so no reliable evidence but if even if just some this is just partly true, it shows a discontent among what are probably loyal Republicans. OK, some will come back but there must be a possibility that they will not donate, not canvass, not leaflet, not display posters until the party adopts a more traditional stance. If Biden adopts moderate policies that they can tolerate (but not necessarily support), they may sit on their hands come election time. There may be others who haven't torn up their membership cards but also feel disillusioned with how the Trump presidency concluded; they, too, may lack the necessary enthusiasm come election time. The Republicans are going to have to decide pretty quickly whether it is the Trump agenda or the traditional Republican agenda that they are going to follow, the difference mainly being over style rather than substance.
www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/biden-news-live-republican-party-suffers-mass-exodus-as-fbi-thwarts-plot-against-california-governor/ar-BB1daoRy?ocid=msedgntp
Oh, the inter-faction fighting in the Republican party has just started. The Drumph years have just widened the cracks that existed in the Tea Party era into gaping chasms. There's a more than 50% chance that they'll never be bridged or fixed and we'll end up with a sizeable third party.
If that happens, I can see some of the less progressive Democrats joining them as a Centrist party.
If that happens, I can see some of the less progressive Democrats joining them as a Centrist party.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Ah, duly noted.They sued her a couple of weeks ago. Rudi is the second case they're bringing to court.
Dominion Voting sues Trump lawyer Powell for defamation, seeking $1.3 billion in damages
Dominion Voting Systems has filed suit against Sidney Powell, the lawyer who pushed false election claims for the Trump campaign, claiming defamation and deceptive trade practices.edition.cnn.com
Must've missed that in the cascade of news over the last month. Good on them for taking both of those demented windbags on, even if they fail to wring that much from either of them. In Rudy's case, it's been evident since at least late 2001 (when he tried to subvert democracy & stay in office as New York Mayor past the end of his term on the basis of his successor, Mike Bloomberg, not being qualified to handle the crisis that was the immediate aftermath of 9/11) that he has more than a couple screws loose. That, or it was his 2008 presidential campagian that showcased just how detached from reality he really was. And that's not even getting into the whole 'marrying one's cousin' thing...
In light of all that, it's hardly surprising that Giuliani's daughter broke ranks with her father and endorsed Biden for President last year. One can only imagine what Rudy's reaction was when he found out...
43096
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The dye ran even more than usual?
Strathclyder
Established Member
Looked more like shoe polish to me tbh.
nlogax
Established Member
His 'I quit your union' letter to SAG was unintentionally hilarious. Great window into his absolutely warped mind and fragile ego.
I don't really agree, I've seen enough US TV to know its a pretty low bar and I thought he had sulking, petulance, irrationality, bullying and incompetence down to a 'T', I've rarely seen it done better.
And he does 'delusional' pretty well. Thanks for the 'heads-up'on this, I'm sure that we can expect more in a similar vein in the months to come.
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nlogax
Established Member
No, he definitely left.
https://www.sagaftra.org/files/SAG-AFTRAResignationLetterfromPresidentDonaldJTrump.pdf
That letter is hilarious, the fact that an adult would send something like that to a professional organisation speaks volumes!
I thought it was more amusing that the letter head was "Office of Donald J Trump" around the Great Seal of the United States (which might be illegal but I've not looked into it in detail myself). Obviously trying to cling onto the trappings of the presidency is old Donny.
nlogax
Established Member
I thought it was a slight hangover to a tradition of ex-presidents still being addressed as 'president' but obviously Agent Orange is taking that to the next level with his signatures. What an absolute.. Trump.
It's visually similar to the Great Seal but there are a couple of differences - the shape of the shield is different and the three stars underneath it aren't part of the official seal. But it's obviously designed to fool anyone who's not paying attention to the fine detail.
An absolute grifter all the way.
pdeaves
Established Member
A 10-year-old with a grudge would likely be more professional both in what they say and how they say it.
Strathclyder
Established Member
Whelp, we can add Fox to those getting their backsides sued for spreading the baselss election fraud BS (for $2.7bn by Smartmatic, a voting machine manufacturer). Trump sycophants Lou Dobbs, Maria Bartiromo & Jeanine Pirro have all been named in this suit; Dobbs' show has been canned entirely.
And there, crystallized in that last quote, is the pyschotic alternative reality in which these goons live.
Lou Dobbs: Fox cancels vocal Trump supporter's programme
The broadcaster is being sued, along with Fox, for spreading baseless claims of election fraud.
www.bbc.co.uk
And there, crystallized in that last quote, is the pyschotic alternative reality in which these goons live.
Well Trump tried to claim that this second impeachment was unconstitutional but to no success, so the trial will go ahead. There was one Republican speaking who could not be more ashamed of trumps acts calling on republicans to find him guilty.
One interesting thing that was trending a few days ago was "Bin Laden", with people remarking that whilst Bin Laden never committed any of the terrorist acts and only told people to carry them out that did not make him innocent, something all sides agree on, yet when Trump does something similar he is supposedly innocent?!
One interesting thing that was trending a few days ago was "Bin Laden", with people remarking that whilst Bin Laden never committed any of the terrorist acts and only told people to carry them out that did not make him innocent, something all sides agree on, yet when Trump does something similar he is supposedly innocent?!
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Yeah, I guess it's not a perfect analogy because Bin Laden actually organised people to carry out terrorist attacks whereas Trump confined himself to 'merely' inciting the insurrection. But there is some logic to what you say.
Another point - again not a perfect analogy but I think worth mentioning - is the Republican/Trump's claim that he shouldn't be tried because he's no longer President. Presumably, the Senators pushing that line also think that anyone who takes advantage of their employment to commit any crime should never be tried if they've already left their job. So, any company director - feel free to commit fraud, just make sure you resign your directorship before any trial starts. Ditto anyone who wants to steal from their employer, abuse anyone they are supposed to be caring for, etc. etc.
They've referred to it as the January Exception - follow the law for your entire term, then break whatever laws you want in the first weeks of January before leaving office.
Apparently Trump is now formally the subject of a criminal investigation in Georgia over his phone call urging the election official there to "find" him some more votes. This looks to me like a far more sturdy prospect of conviction than the inherently loaded, partisan impeachment trial.
Two separate and distinct things. An impeachment is a political process, not criminal.
Indeed. Although his defence’s weird opening comments yesterday pointed this out. Let’s hope someone in the right places thinks that’s a good idea and gets him arrested