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Drivers not trained on loco types

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neilmc

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I remember seeing a pair of class 27 diesels on Holbeck shed in Leeds in around 1969. They were Scottish region locos which had been to Derby works to have push-pull equipment fitted, I think. These locos were not allocated to Holbeck so how did they get back to Scotland? Would a class-27 proficient crew have been sent passenger from, say, Carlisle to collect the locos or would they have been run dead with another light engine from the Leeds area?

In a similar vein, at the steam/diesel changeover period, were there young drivers trained on diesels but never passed to drive steam who might have been allocated one of the last steam locos working into the area and having to refuse it?
 
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DerekC

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There wasn't as much difference between classes in those days (no onboard computers, for a start) and many classes (26, 27, 33) were very similar to each other so I doubt that the rules on what you could drive were as rigid as they are now. However, my guess is that a crew would have been sent to fetch them just because that way the home depot would pick up the cost.

As regards steam/diesel, there is no way that someone trained only on diesel could safely operate any steam loco, so I doubt that the situation would have arisen. Steam wouldn't be allocated to a service unless there was somebody available to drive it.
 

Journeyman

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There wasn't as much difference between classes in those days (no onboard computers, for a start) and many classes (26, 27, 33) were very similar to each other so I doubt that the rules on what you could drive were as rigid as they are now.
Didn't all locos with a particular multiple working system have more or less the same controls? When reading about the NBL Type 2s, I discovered the controls were different on the later Blue Star fitted examples, presumably similar to other Blue Star locos. I assume there were other things drivers needed to know, but yes, I think the classification of loco types was somewhat coarser than it is now.
 

Taunton

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At the time of the steam/diesel changeover, everyone on the footplate had started as a fireman, diesels (though not dmus) being double manned.

There were however other issues. The Taunton foreman once had to deal with a Laira driver who couldn't take a substitute steam loco back to Plymouth because they wore spectacles; these had never been permitted for steam crews but were allowed when diesels came along; it was one of the reasons why older drivers in steam days who failed their eyesight test had previously to be found non-driving duties, such as shed preparation; the elderly signing-on and wages clerks, now i think back, always wore specs.

Regarding different controls, there was a general attitude that you "just had to get along with it". When the 82xxx locos came to Taunton, the first with left-hand driving position, there was no instruction at all, one just had to get on with it. Nor was there any explanation of where the different minor controls were placed. For diesels however there was what, for those days, was significant training of established crews. DMUs of the era had transmissions and gearboxes taken straight from AEC buses, but quite a number of drivers at the time didn't even have driving licences! Same applied to fitters when vans were provided for them, some didn't drive.
 

Spartacus

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I imagine then a proficient member of crew would have been sent down from Edinburgh or Glasgow, on the cushions unless there was an appropriate diagram for him to slot into, and if he signed the route. If he didn't he'd have been conducted back to Scotland by a Holbeck man who did sign it, who then travelled South in a similar manner to how the Scottish man did.

I've read reports of 27s on service trains on the Settle - Carlisle, so that seems an obvious route to do it.
 

Andy R. A.

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There were a batch of 27s allocated to the Midland Lines from new in 1962, and another batch went new to the North Eastern Region. The last of these didn't gravitate to Scotland until about 1969, so there were still probably sufficient 27 trained crews available for moving them around the Leeds area ?
 

6Gman

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I remember seeing a pair of class 27 diesels on Holbeck shed in Leeds in around 1969. They were Scottish region locos which had been to Derby works to have push-pull equipment fitted, I think. These locos were not allocated to Holbeck so how did they get back to Scotland? Would a class-27 proficient crew have been sent passenger from, say, Carlisle to collect the locos or would they have been run dead with another light engine from the Leeds area?

In a similar vein, at the steam/diesel changeover period, were there young drivers trained on diesels but never passed to drive steam who might have been allocated one of the last steam locos working into the area and having to refuse it?
On the specific Class 27 question I would expect that Carlisle would have men who signed both traction and route (well, to Leeds; probably not Holbeck itself). So passenger to Leeds, van to Holbeck, route conductor to Whitehall West Jn then right away to Carlisle.

Or they could have been towed of course.

Very unlikely there would have been any significant number of diesel-only drivers in areas where steam substitution would have been a thing.
 

furnessvale

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In steam days, the best way for a Preston crew to get past Lostock Hall with a steam hauled freight to earn some overtime (if they wanted it) was to turn up with a Super D.
 

alistairlees

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I remember seeing a pair of class 27 diesels on Holbeck shed in Leeds in around 1969. They were Scottish region locos which had been to Derby works to have push-pull equipment fitted, I think. These locos were not allocated to Holbeck so how did they get back to Scotland? Would a class-27 proficient crew have been sent passenger from, say, Carlisle to collect the locos or would they have been run dead with another light engine from the Leeds area?

In a similar vein, at the steam/diesel changeover period, were there young drivers trained on diesels but never passed to drive steam who might have been allocated one of the last steam locos working into the area and having to refuse it?
Probably in the consist of a freight. There’s a few pictures of these.
 
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