East Anglia Bus Scene

[F Great Eastern]

So, some interesting developments appear to be happening with buses in East Anglia outside of the mass repainting which is going on with First Eastern Counties.

I'll get the ball rolling with the latest Suffolk Updates.

Galloway are giving up routes 115 and 116 which are going over to Ipswich Buses, whilst also giving up 110, 112, 113 and 114 which are going to Simmonds in the next week.

In November there's a whole host of services being cancelled because of the withdrawal of subsidy, although there are still talks on a number of routes ongoing about possibly being operated commercially. Beestons will operate the 971 commercially and Ipswich Buses are going to operate the 92, 93, 97 and 98 commercially, but the 93C, 94/A/C are all gone and the 98 will now only be school days.

On the subject of Beestons, there's talk of Ipswich Buses entering the Hadleigh to Ipswich market according to their website. This may explain the recent Beestons timetable increase to every hour between Hadleigh and Ipswich. When I came out of Ipswich train station tonight I noted a Enviro 400 MMC on the 91 rather than the usual Omnidekka. Does anyone know if that was a one off, or is this now an allocation?

 

[buslad1988]

That’s interesting, thanks for the update. I’d heard Galloways had served notice on all their tenders but assumed they’d win some back.

Ipswich Buses cuts are quite severe (didn’t realise SCC sponsored that much of the old Carters network) and after examining the new timetables there are some significant gaps. In particular the 97 with trips out of Ips at 1615 and 1745... currently the journey at 1710 often leaves full - so that’s an extra 25 minutes they are expecting people to wait. Local media has also reported a lot of criticism of the 93C and 94C journeys leaving students unable to get to/from college.

I never have really rated Beestons tbh; they pushed First off the Hadleigh/Sudbury corridor and have ran it into the ground in recent years. It’s admirable Ipswich Buses are doing surveys of residents/businesses etc but it’s warning Beestons they may be about to try and muscle in.

 

[F Great Eastern]

That’s interesting, thanks for the update. I’d heard Galloways had served notice on all their tenders but assumed they’d win some back.

From what I heard they want out of the local bus market, not surprising considering the state of their fleet and the appalling reliability of it. Seen so many of their vehicles not sounding or looking in good condition and looking very tired. Be interesting to see Simmonds coming back again, they used to have a fair bit of work in Ipswich at one point. Those routes operated by Galloway, some of them seem to have gone around through many different operators over the last decade or so.

Ipswich Buses cuts are quite severe (didn’t realise SCC sponsored that much of the old Carters network) and after examining the new timetables there are some significant gaps. In particular the 97 with trips out of Ips at 1615 and 1745... currently the journey at 1710 often leaves full - so that’s an extra 25 minutes they are expecting people to wait.

Is that still single decker operated? Is there any reason the 97 cannot be double decker? I remember that the MCV single decker used to be common on their in the Carters days but last time I was in the Cattle Market, a few months ago, it seemed to be fully operated by ex Lothian Darts?

I never have really rated Beestons tbh; they pushed First off the Hadleigh/Sudbury corridor and have ran it into the ground in recent years. It’s admirable Ipswich Buses are doing surveys of residents/businesses etc but it’s warning Beestons they may be about to try and muscle in.

In fairness First Eastern Counties got kicked off that route as they provided a poor service full of poorly appointed DARTS of various descriptions and battered old Olympians and refuse to invest in any real modern vehicles so when Beestons set up they were overhauled pretty quickly. Pretty much everyone I know who used that route in Sudbury vastly prefered Beestons to First on every level when they were both running. But fair to say that they're not exactly setting the world alight these days.

Beestons is based in Hadleigh and Ipswich Buses are in Ipswich and therefore with peak traffic on that route being from Hadleigh in the morning and from Ipswich in the afternoon, that would mean Ipswich Buses would have to do a lot of dead running from Ipswich in the morning and back to Ipswich in the evening. Sure they could run them in service but they're going to be carrying a lot of fresh air.

Not sure that Ipswich Buses serving Hadleigh to Ipswich will work out well for people in Sudbury. If they're not going all the way to Sudbury but take enough passengers from Beestons between Hadleigh and Ipswich, it could make running any bus to Sudbury unviable as those Sudbury to Ipswich buses depend on revenue from both Sudbury and Hadleigh to make them pay. Sometimes best to have one operator that can make it pay rather than two who both lose money which means certain areas get left behind.

To give Beestons credit though, they really look after their fleet and seem to run their services no matter how late they run whereas other providers will simply cancel departures. Saying that, however well their fleet is looked after, that doesn't take away from the fact that the youngest bus on that route is 13 years old and mostly it's operated by 14/15 year old Omnidekkas.

They have a least 3 Enviro 400s MMCs that are in a dual purpose spec so it'll be interesting to see if they roll these out to the 91 in the face of what's to come. They were also supposed to be getting contactless but apparently balked at the cost of it even though they now have Ticketer machines.

 

[buslad1988]

I always got the impression Beestons priority was the coach and private hire market; with local buses an ‘on the side’ operation. Agree FEC’s varied/elderly fleet was utilised on the 91 service back in the day but towards the end new Scania/Wrights were commonly used and IMO Beestons were underhand in running 10 minutes ahead of them.

There would be a lot of dead running if IB did tackle the Hadleigh corridor but like you say it’ll be the Sudbury section that suffers long term. It’s common knowledge that route is heavily used by concessionary pass holders so it’s already a borderline operation. I also don’t think either Beestons or IB could afford to incur losses for any significant period of time.

What also doesn’t help is that the 91 doesn’t serve a significant estate/road on the way out of Ipswich; but that’s down to geography. It must help routes like First’s 88 being able to sweep up a few customers on Norwich Road for example.

Must admit the number of operators in the Ipswich area was getting ridiculous at one stage... great for enthusiasts but not realistically brilliant from a business/competition point of view. All those operators competing for tenders; Ipswich Buses, First, Galloways, Simonds, Beestons, Carters, Far East Travel, Suffolk Norse, Network Colchester, Chambers.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I always got the impression Beestons priority was the coach and private hire market; with local buses an ‘on the side’ operation. Agree FEC’s varied/elderly fleet was utilised on the 91 service back in the day but towards the end new Scania/Wrights were commonly used and IMO Beestons were underhand in running 10 minutes ahead of them.

They did have a dedicated bus operations manager who recently left. Not sure if that is a sign of them winding down the bus side, but if you look at the carry on which happened with the 5 and 236 routes, they really killed them off by the way they handled them in the last few years. 91 and 971 are their only service routes although they do a lot of school work using Omnidekkas and coaches.

There would be a lot of dead running if IB did tackle the Hadleigh corridor but like you say it’ll be the Sudbury section that suffers long term. It’s common knowledge that route is heavily used by concessionary pass holders so it’s already a borderline operation. I also don’t think either Beestons or IB could afford to incur losses for any significant period of time.

I once read on a blog that there's only 4 buses a day which perform well, basically the commuter / college flow in the morning from Hadleigh and back from Ipswich in the evening. For services departming 9am to 3pm it's overwhelmingly concessionary pass holders from what I have heard and read elsewhere, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Beestons recently hiked their fares up and you have to say it's likely that the commuters are heavily subsidising the pass holders during the day.

Must admit the number of operators in the Ipswich area was getting ridiculous at one stage... great for enthusiasts but not realistically brilliant from a business/competition point of view. All those operators competing for tenders; Ipswich Buses, First, Galloways, Simonds, Beestons, Carters, Far East Travel, Suffolk Norse, Network Colchester, Chambers.

Great for Suffolk County Council too who can keep contract prices low as possible and still fail to provide proper services and infrastrucutre. Saving £60k a year by not bothering to replace timetables at stops being the latest bright idea and instead printing a sheet telling people to go online. Have to say though, Far East Travel were a shambles.

 

[F Great Eastern]

More serviced to be cancelled due to withdrawal of SCC Bus Subsidy
- 71 Sudbourne - Orford - Woodbridge - Bealings - Ipswich
- 90 Ipswich - Hadleigh (Evenings and Sunday services)
- 796 Hadleigh - Manningtree

 

[RELL6L]

The moves in Suffolk look very bleak. Simons is taking over the 112-114 (adding a 110 variant) from Galloway but the services are cut back quite drastically. It's more like every 2 hours combined now instead of hourly. And fewer journeys from Diss - no journeys at all from Diss to Eye between 13.30 and 17.15. With the 482 to be withdrawn in November too this is a big cutback. I did a trip out there in April which included Diss to Eye on a 112, then an hour in Eye, on to Debenham on the 114 and then on the 116 from Debenham to Ipswich, all Galloway. The 112 and 114 were both quite busy, no-one else on the 116 until we neared Ipswich but it wasn't a journey you'd expect to be busy. And Galloway seemed to be pretty reasonable and reliable, decent buses on the 112-4. Used them before on the 384 and that was good too.

I have used the 91 a couple of times with Beestons and I thought they ran this pretty well. Busy out of Ipswich, moved onto the stand in good time and loaded up for a prompt departure, but I agree it thins out after Hadleigh. It was every 90 minutes then, I agree it seems more sensible to run hourly to Hadleigh and then two hourly to Sudbury and fit in with the school times. Shame they stopped running the 236, this seemed busy too, Chambers had just taken it over when I last went. Would Chambers - that's Go Ahead - take on the 91 if Beestons give up?

One route to recommend around there is the 374 from Clare to Bury St Edmunds through a very rural area. At least in school terms this uses deckers and the school runs are busy into Bury.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I have used the 91 a couple of times with Beestons and I thought they ran this pretty well. Busy out of Ipswich, moved onto the stand in good time and loaded up for a prompt departure, but I agree it thins out after Hadleigh. It was every 90 minutes then, I agree it seems more sensible to run hourly to Hadleigh and then two hourly to Sudbury and fit in with the school times. Shame they stopped running the 236, this seemed busy too, Chambers had just taken it over when I last went. Would Chambers - that's Go Ahead - take on the 91 if Beestons give up?

The problem is that the only buses that do high numbers of fare paying passengers regularly are:
06:45 from Sudbury to Ipswich
07:45 from Sudbury to Ipswich
15:45 from Ipswich to Sudbury
17:15 from Ipswich to Sudbury

Saturday's can be variable, depending on events and if Ipswich are playing at home and the 18:30 from Ipswich probably does alright as it's only going to Hadleigh. The section from Hadleigh to Ipswich would be far better performing than Sudbury to Hadleigh as has been said and from looking at their new timetable the layover times are reduced at Ipswich end and minimal from Hadleigh so they may have made a saving on costs as well as drivers spending more of their shift time driving.

One thing you should give kudos to is Beestons going the extra mile in time of disruption. A friend of mine living in Hintlesham was on the bus a few weeks ago when the A1071 was closed at the Sproughton end and the bus was diverted via Capel and Raydon to Hadleigh so couldn't serve Hintlesham. Driver called the office who arranged for another bus to meet them in Hadleigh to take them to Hintlesham - could you really see First or Ipswich buses doing that?

The 236 they messed the timetable up with and chopped off certain sections of it which made it unattractive to many people. Part of the route is now with Chambers and the other half is with The Big Green Bus company which goes around with small red DARTs last time I saw it.

 

[F Great Eastern]

A fuller list of Subsidy withdrawn cuts for services within Suffolk and those operating between Norfolk and Suffolk is now in and it's pretty big cuts to put it bluntly.

The following services are cancelled from first week in November
- A14 Ipswich – Stowmarket – Bury St Edmunds – Newmarket - Cambridge
- 62 Blaxhall – Wickham Market - Woodbridge
- 71 Sudbourne - Orford - Woodbridge - Bealings - Ipswich
- 90 Ipswich - Hadleigh (Evenings and Sunday services)
- 93C/94A/94C Ipswich - Colchester
- 108 Lowestoft to James Paget Hospital
- 143 Bury St Edmunds – Stanton – Norwich
- 134 Bury St Edmunds – Thetford – Norwich
- 316 Stonham Aspal – Debenham – Thorndon – Eye
- 375 Alpheton – Bury St Edmunds
- 482 Diss – Eye – Stradbroke – Framlingham
- 796 Hadleigh - Manningtree

The following routes will still operate with reduced frequency
- 92 Manningtree to Ipswich
- 94 Ipswich - Langham (single PM service from Ipswich Only)

The following routes will continue following awarding of a new tender.
118/119 - Ipswich - Otley - Framlingham - Stradbroke

The following limited service routes will remain supported until March 2020 when subsidy will be withdrawn
- 120 Whatfield - Ipswich
- 461 Hadleigh - Bildeston - Stowmarket
- 462 Hadleigh - Whatfield - Elmsett - Wattisham - Stowmarket

 

[RELL6L]

The 93 isn't being cancelled. It is the main route from Ipswich to Colchester. It is being reduced to about 2 hourly off peak, slightly better in peaks.

Interesting that with the talk above about Galloways pulling out of everything they have now won the tender for the 118 and 119 and will continue to operate these routes.

But Suffolk is becoming a bit of a bus desert - shame because once it seemed quite enlightened!

 

[F Great Eastern]

The 93 isn't being cancelled. It is the main route from Ipswich to Colchester. It is being reduced to about 2 hourly off peak, slightly better in peaks.

Indeed - Took it from Suffolk Onboard yesterday which said it was cancelled which has now been corrected, I've updated the details above for completeness.

There's talk of a petition being presented to Beestons shortly about the times of the 91 buses from Sudbury to Ipswich, fuelled by local political activists, but there really isn't the commercial demand for an hourly service from Sudbury.

 

[buslad1988]

There's talk of a petition being presented to Beestons shortly about the times of the 91 buses from Sudbury to Ipswich, fuelled by local political activists, but there really isn't the commercial demand for an hourly service from Sudbury.

Classic. Love these petitions signed by hundreds of people who supposedly see the service as a life line; but yet who never use it! They should count themselves lucky it’s still once every 2 hours.

Suffolk has unfortunately totally lost the plot when it comes to public transport (apart from Rail). Years of neglect in infrastructure and apart from the original Superoutes 66 (1995) 88 (1997) and Ipswich Park & Rides (1997/2001/2003) what have they actually spent on any bus priority or actual improvements!

Don’t even go there on the Ipswich: Transport fit for the 21st century project (sorry failure!).

Are operators partly to blame also though for not banging on the doors of SCC to work together more on joint partnerships and the like?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Saturday saw the first of the route changes following the subsidy cuts.

Simmonds had a plain white Enviro 200 out on the 113 with not so much as a sticker on it to say who it operated for, it did however, have legals. Guessing it's something they've recently acquired.

Classic. Love these petitions signed by hundreds of people who supposedly see the service as a life line; but yet who never use it! They should count themselves lucky it’s still once every 2 hours.

Indeed, we've all seen the massive long petitions signed by huge numbers of people who have never used the bus in their life. That becomes obvious when they talk about the service and reference a timetable that changed several years ago and how it cannot be lost or something like that.

Then there is the bus pass holders of a good age who moan that too many young people or working people are on the bus, despite the fact that said people are paying the fares that subsidise the government barely giving the operator anything and without such people there would be no service. Then you have the people who say the bus is always full and busy when it isn't who mislead the local press etc.

On the subject of the 91, it had two E400 MMCs on it on Saturday. I've only seen the 17 plate one (rarely) on it, but they had SN17 MTK and YX18 KOH out. Did the 19 plate operate the other duty? Seems deliberate, since they have a dozen Omnidekkas and no school, contract or 971 work on a Saturday.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Ipswich Buses appeared to have a Mercedes Citaro demonstrator parked up in their depot this afternoon.

 

[borage]

Simmonds had a plain white Enviro 200 out on the 113 with not so much as a sticker on it to say who it operated for, it did however, have legals. Guessing it's something they've recently acquired.

Curiously, there are pictures of it in 2016 and 2017 already with Simonds.

Ipswich Buses appeared to have a Mercedes Citaro demonstrator parked up in their depot this afternoon.

They’ve tweeted:

Make sure you check out our eco friendly Mercedes Citaro Hybrid demo bus on our route 12 today! We would love to hear your feedback on the bus.

 

[buslad1988]

Ipswich Buses appeared to have a Mercedes Citaro demonstrator parked up in their depot this afternoon.

Assume this is another one of the numerous demonstrators they have yet orders never materialise! PR stunt as usual. They never ordered any more Citaro’s after the first three for a reason - over priced and didn’t return on the fuel savings they were promised.

Also just announced they are having yet another fares increase... probably in an attempt to off set the £388,000 loss the company made last year, which is up from a loss of £262,000 the year before (although this will result in driving away even more passengers).

 

[F Great Eastern]

Just seen a Beestons fairly short Enviro 200 in full livery (including silver panel on front) minus fleetnames go past Ipswich station on the 91 which operated the 8:15 from Ipswich it seems.

Would suggest this also ran the 6:45 from Sudbury which is a strange allocationl as that's normally a very busy decker.

Anybody know what happened?

 

[Robertj21a]

First Essex changes

https://www.firstgroup.com/essex/ne...s/news/essex-service-changes-january-5th-2020

 

[TubeMapCentral]

First Essex changes

https://www.firstgroup.com/essex/ne...s/news/essex-service-changes-january-5th-2020

Interesting, Clacton Walton and Frinton finally abandoned

 

[njlawley]

To be replaced by Hedingham.

 

[buslad1988]

Wow. Shocked and saddened by the final nail in the coffin for First services in the Greater Clacton area (albeit except for ECC Sunday contracts). Wasn’t expecting that tbh!

And as usual Hedingham come marching in announcing a replacement service... is that all they seem to do in Essex now pick up what First deem unprofitable?!

On the subject of Go-Ahead Konect Bus have also announced another set of changes in December and further cuts in January (makes you wonder if the surplus buses will go to Hedingham for Clacton).

They’ve also recently had a handful of enviro 200MMC’s for Norwich Park & Ride arrive. Rather an abysmal investment considering how many other op co’s get numerous brand new buses.

 

[TubeMapCentral]

Won't be sad to see First go, 26 years of their designed-to-fail timetables between Colchester and Wivenhoe would make anyone cynical about public transport. Now that I live on the coast, it will be good not to have to do business with them.

 

[markymark2000]

And as usual Hedingham come marching in announcing a replacement service... is that all they seem to do in Essex now pick up what First deem unprofitable?!

I think that might be their business model. They are just kind of there waiting to take on First routes as and when they drop them. It's cheaper than buying First out haha.

 

[TubeMapCentral]

I think that might be their business model. They are just kind of there waiting to take on First routes as and when they drop them. It's cheaper than buying First out haha.

Hedingham have been running services in and around Clacton for years, So they were certainly helping the process along a bit. Walton to Clacton is the only route with no coverage by Hedingham, and it is hard to imagine a more clumsy timetable for this than the one that First came up with after Clacton depot closed, ruining something that worked well, and emptying the buses without any need for competition. First should have just cut their losses and left cleanly.

 

[chubs]

On the subject of Go-Ahead Konect Bus have also announced another set of changes in December and further cuts in January (makes you wonder if the surplus buses will go to Hedingham for Clacton).

Konnect are always fiddling with timetables, rerouting, renumbering etc.

If there's a service reduction I'd imagine half the fleet will go for scrap as they aren't in any fit state for service. The bluestar cast offs are the worst.

 

[Flange Squeal]

If there's a service reduction I'd imagine half the fleet will go for scrap as they aren't in any fit state for service. The bluestar cast offs are the worst.

They are currently advertising nine ex-Bluestar 55/06-plate Citaros in the trade press for £10-15k “dependant on age and condition”. Are these the ones you refer to as “the worst”?

 

[chubs]

Yes. Assumed they were much older than 2006 tbh. Prob never had a new interior or mechanical work.

 

[07london55]

I believe Hedingham will run into some problems with First finally departing. Their service is already somewhat sloppy - consistent lateness, tatty buses and weird timetables to work around their school contracts. They're well known for driver shortages when they take on new routes. At least when First closed their depot in Clacton they had a good pool of drivers to take on, but with the current First routes being run from Colchester they'd be looking at almost a fresh batch of drivers.

Their X76 between Jaywick+Clacton and Colchester will definitely suffer from serious overcrowding (by out of London standards) in the mornings - as about 3 of First's 97s and 1 packed X76 will be combined into one, if you're lucky, two buses. However, they may finally begin turning a profit on the service which might fuel some change.

I do wonder where they'll get the buses from to fill the gap - there are too many places potentially. They've had some serious gains over the past year with ex-GAL Geminis and awfully tatty darts from elsewhere. Sadly, they've all retained their old livery - so now 1/3 of the Hedingham fleet is out of company colours (which already consisted of a mix between an old and a new one!). The majority of these were to replace old Presidents taken from GAL in 2012 - and they were in better condition and livery!

 

[F Great Eastern]

Beestons appear to have taken delivery of former NCT Scania / East Lancs Omnitown YN04 AMX (not to be confused with ANX which is an ex Beestons Scania /Wright Solar!) now in full livery minus fleet names and was seen in Colchester on the 971 today - they must really love the East Lancs and Scania combination!

However it does raise a question about the sustainability of the 971 route. This previously was a Suffolk County Council supported route, run with double deckers, which the subsidy was withdrawn for. Beestons agreed to run it commercially but loads this year seem down on last year coming into Colchester, to the point where now they are seemingly using single deckers.

I wouldn't be surprised if this was on the chopping board sooner or later.

 

[F Great Eastern]

There's a whole load more changes to Suffolk subsidised routes in March/April now on Suffolk On Board, some routes continuing without subsidy, others changing operators with some others being cancelled altogether.

Details here:
https://www.suffolkonboard.com/buses/bus-timetable-updates/

In other news, just seen in Colchester that on the 971 this morning was SK20 AUU, a shiny, devoid of any fleetnames, brand new Enviro 400 MMC operating for Beestons instead of the usual ex NCT Omnitown.

They have four of them now, but still they seem very rarely on service work.