East Anglia Bus Scene

[buslad1988]

Interesting that KonectBus are now reporting losses of £500k and unions are wanting to enter into meaningful negotiations regarding working conditions... does trouble like this follow MD Jeremy Cooper around?! Similar scenario in his time at Ipswich.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Am I reading something wrong here
https://www.ipswichbuses.co.uk/cust...irus-covid-19-concessionary-bus-pass-holders/

That statement seems to suggest that encouraging people to travel at times when higher numbers of people are using transport creates an increased risk to their health, but then goes on to say they need to reduce isolation and that there will also be less workers and school children using the buses at these times, so the overall risk is reduced.

The two parts in bold directly contradict each other.

 

[buslad1988]

Am I reading something wrong here
https://www.ipswichbuses.co.uk/cust...irus-covid-19-concessionary-bus-pass-holders/

That statement seems to suggest that encouraging people to travel at times when higher numbers of people are using transport creates an increased risk to their health, but then goes on to say they need to reduce isolation and that there will also be less workers and school children using the buses at these times, so the overall risk is reduced.

The two parts in bold directly contradict each other.

They’re mad at that company. Also continuing school day services/timetables as usual next week too... clearly got money to burn!

Whilst the rest of the industry to trying to save money they’re operating normal weekday timetables.

Totally irresponsible from a business perspective; clearly after another bail out in a few months time.

 

[buslad1988]

Konect Bus have lost another round of Norfolk County Council contracts in Norwich to First and a small independent. How long do we think Go-ahead will carry on?

Are the Norwich Park & Ride contracts up for renewal soon?

 

[markymark2000]

Konect Bus have lost another round of Norfolk County Council contracts in Norwich to First and a small independent. How long do we think Go-ahead will carry on?

Are the Norwich Park & Ride contracts up for renewal soon?

What have they lost? I think that would be useful to add.

 

[buslad1988]

What have they lost? I think that would be useful to add.

Sorry, thought I’d attached link. Try again: https://www.konectbus.co.uk/news/timetablechanges-28june2020/ all very easy to find on their home page though.

They haven’t lost some of the contracts on a like for like basis; First wins have been incorporated into their existing green line services.

 

[borage]

Several more in a month's time, too. None require more than a single vehicle, but it all adds up. On the other hand, they've regained the Dereham market day route 17 (four journeys a week!).

Interesting that Completely Coach Travel, a relatively new operator, are branching out from private hire and rail replacement and operating a couple of services (on Sundays only).

 

[buslad1988]

Several more in a month's time, too. None require more than a single vehicle, but it all adds up. On the other hand, they've regained the Dereham market day route 17 (four journeys a week!).

Interesting that Completely Coach Travel, a relatively new operator, are branching out from private hire and rail replacement and operating a couple of services (on Sundays only).

Incorporating the 5A, 5C and 33 into Firsts existing green line network makes perfect sense though. By bringing those contracts into an already successful commercial wider network should provide them with more security for long term viability. May bring a few extra passengers too!

 

[markymark2000]

Konnect don't like being passenger friendly do they. 2 timetable changes that close really discourages passengers.

They are certainly on their way out it seems. Losing work and constantly chopping and changing the commercial work. They are the complete opposite of the other GoAhead areas and it's a shame to see.

 

[duncombec]

Konnect don't like being passenger friendly do they. 2 timetable changes that close really discourages passengers.

They are certainly on their way out it seems. Losing work and constantly chopping and changing the commercial work. They are the complete opposite of the other GoAhead areas and it's a shame to see.

In normal times, perhaps, but don't forget timetable changes have been very frequent recently, and in any case we still shouldn't really be using buses unless we have no alternative.

Might it also be the case that commercial changes have a longer lag time at the Traffic Commissioners, because council supported changes are often accepted under shorter notice, depending on tendering lead-times? (Present emergency changes aside, which I think are only valid for COVID timetable changes, not permanent changes). What's more, the later changes are mentioned in the earlier link.

 

[Volvodart]

Konect Bus have lost another round of Norfolk County Council contracts in Norwich to First and a small independent. How long do we think Go-ahead will carry on?

Are the Norwich Park & Ride contracts up for renewal soon?

Go Ahead said recently that it was going to be sorting out the underperforming regional bus areas.

We also expect further one-off non-cash restructuring costs in the second half as we address underperforming areas of this division.

 

[cnjb8]

I can't think who would want to buy Konect. If GoAhead does want to close them, then they'll probably do what Stagecoach did in Kings Lynn, leave and take their buses and let the local operators fill the void, which would be good for First

 

[F Great Eastern]

Beestons are cancelling the 971 from September.

It was a council subsidised route until September 2019 but the subsidy was withdrawn following a fall in passenger numbers. The passenger numbers have fallen further this academic year to make the route marginal and Beestons can no longer sustain it commercially in a post coronavirus world where the tours side of the business has been decimated.

Apparently there are said to be some fleet changes on the way. Since the end of March - the Monday to Friday peak only operation of the 91 has been Enviro 400 MMC exclusively operated, will have to see if that continues when the daytime 91s start again on Monday. Seems weird not to see an Omnidekka on that route for so long, since you rarely saw an E400 MMC on there pre-covid.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Konect Bus have lost another round of Norfolk County Council contracts in Norwich to First and a small independent. How long do we think Go-ahead will carry on?

Are the Norwich Park & Ride contracts up for renewal soon?

Renewed in September 2015 on a five year deal so gonna be a pivotal few months.

In fact, when you look at the facts, it doesn't look especially encouraging... Lost over £1m and has a fleet that, aside from the P&R fleet, is actually pretty old in both the Norfolk and the former Hedingham/Chambers businesses. Things may be slightly improved with First exiting Clacton but you wonder what the longer term prospects are.

Can't help but think that the Excel changes when the new fleet was introduced was also aimed squarely at eroding Konect on the Dereham to Norwich corridor - another shove towards the exit door?

 

[buslad1988]

Renewed in September 2015 on a five year deal so gonna be a pivotal few months.

In fact, when you look at the facts, it doesn't look especially encouraging... Lost over £1m and has a fleet that, aside from the P&R fleet, is actually pretty old in both the Norfolk and the former Hedingham/Chambers businesses. Things may be slightly improved with First exiting Clacton but you wonder what the longer term prospects are.

Can't help but think that the Excel changes when the new fleet was introduced was also aimed squarely at eroding Konect on the Dereham to Norwich corridor - another shove towards the exit door?

You’re probably not far wrong there, Konect definitely a shadow of its former self. Pre Go-ahead they had a nice tidy mix of new buses and mid life Excels. The services now appear so complicated, not to mention being chopped and changed frequently! Their new livery is so dark and dreary too. Just headed exactly the same way Anglian did.

The “best” of the Go East Anglia bunch seems to be Chambers. Hedingham is just a basket case of buses thrown together from all over the place in various liveries. Go-ahead should be ashamed of themselves for that op!

What the answers are I do not know however.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Been a few stories in the press now about the 971:

Parents voice anger as essential school bus service scrapped

A bus service popular among students who use it to travel between Hadleigh, Capel St Mary, East Begholt and Colchester is being...

www.eadt.co.uk

Parents warned u-turn over bus cut unlikely

Pupils due to sit their GCSE and A level exams next summer will face major disruption in September when the only bus service between Hadleigh, Capel…

www.eadt.co.uk

I suspect that Suffolk CC are not keen on subsidising bus services to colleges in Essex and it's never going to be commercially viable based on the much reduced loadings over the last academic year.

In other news Beestons have won two new school contracts.

 

[NorwichRailFan]

Interesting that Completely Coach Travel, a relatively new operator, are branching out from private hire and rail replacement and operating a couple of services (on Sundays only).
[/QUOTE]

I find it interesting that they are running an articulated Mercedes O530G Citaro bus on there routes.

 

[F Great Eastern]

It seems that in the last few months Beestons have sold much of their modern coach fleet and their 2017/2018 Enviro 400 MMC double deckers.

Seems around the same time that these vehicles were sold, once again their fleet of Omnidekkas, most dating back to 2004 are the mainstays of their work again, whereas the fleet was slowly being modernised pre-pandemic.

From an outsiders point of view, it looks suspiciously like a company that is trying to sell assets to create working capital to survive the pandemic. Is this the case?

How are the other independents in East Anglia getting on? I assume that the lack of schools operating, the death of the leisure, private hire, tours and excursions market and a massive drop in service work demand is seriously putting them at risk?

 

[Kartenga]

Looks like Beestons could be have their bus business side bought out by Ipswich buses

It seems that in the last few months Beestons have sold much of their modern coach fleet and their 2017/2018 Enviro 400 MMC double deckers.

Seems around the same time that these vehicles were sold, once again their fleet of Omnidekkas, most dating back to 2004 are the mainstays of their work again, whereas the fleet was slowly being modernised pre-pandemic.

From an outsiders point of view, it looks suspiciously like a company that is trying to sell assets to create working capital to survive the pandemic. Is this the case?

How are the other independents in East Anglia getting on? I assume that the lack of schools operating, the death of the leisure, private hire, tours and excursions market and a massive drop in service work demand is seriously putting them at risk?

Beestons are doing well as Matthews, Bantams, Kersey Freight Limited (KFL) and Celotex use there yard and Beestons old yard in Hadleigh Industrial Estate as holding area for lorries. Plus Beestons own land around them that’s destined for housing and business land. Not to mention they own PSV Recycling LTD - see their facebook page which shows they are now bus and coach breakers. There are a lot of old Ipswich buses there.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Looks like Beestons could be have their bus business side bought out by Ipswich buses


Beestons are doing well as Matthews, Bantams, Kersey Freight Limited (KFL) and Celotex use there yard and Beestons old yard in Hadleigh Industrial Estate as holding area for lorries. Plus Beestons own land around them that’s destined for housing and business land. Not to mention they own PSV Recycling LTD - see their facebook page which shows they are now bus and coach breakers. There are a lot of old Ipswich buses there.

What? 2 + 2 = 4.9....

 

[F Great Eastern]

Looks like Beestons could be have their bus business side bought out by Ipswich buses


Beestons are doing well as Matthews, Bantams, Kersey Freight Limited (KFL) and Celotex use there yard and Beestons old yard in Hadleigh Industrial Estate as holding area for lorries. Plus Beestons own land around them that’s destined for housing and business land. Not to mention they own PSV Recycling LTD - see their facebook page which shows they are now bus and coach breakers. There are a lot of old Ipswich buses there.

Is that the public bus service side, or does it include the coach side and the school contracts as well?

Be interesting if that does happen, but the traffic flows on the 91 service being to Ipswich in the morning and from Ipswich in the evening would mean Ipswich Buses would have a lot more dead running out of their depot in Ipswich in the morning and back to Ipswich in the evening than Beestons would have.

Be a shame if they were to go because they seem to look after the vehicles pretty well and I'm told a bunch of decent drivers, but of course now is not a good time for the bus market and it's understandable why they would want to exit a market which has had a difficult 12 months and of course the haulage market is going to be much more lucrative.

 

[Kartenga]

I think it’s the bus side but was told they're in discussions but in the past they had Beestons (Hadleigh) LTD for the coach side and Constable Coaches LTD T/A Beestons for the bus side of the business.

 

[GusB]

I think it’s the bus side but was told they're in discussions but in the past they had Beestons (Hadleigh) LTD for the coach side and Constable Coaches LTD T/A Beestons for the bus side of the business.

Welcome to the forum!

It would be helpful if you could provide details of the source of your information, preferably with a link to and a quote from the source. If it's "on the grapevine" or an internal source which you cannot reveal, please make this clear in your posts.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Thing is that towards the end of 2019 it is no secret that Ipswich Buses were looking at the potential demand for an enhanced bus service for those in Ipswich working in Hadleigh. It's believed that they approached businesses in Hadleigh about the potential demand for better services.

The big loser of any takeover of the bus side of Beestons is going to be those living in Sudbury and Boxford The Sudbury to Hadleigh section of the route doesn't exactly pay it's way now. The extra dead running of having a depot in Ipswich that is at the wrong end of the route for both the morning and evening peak flows and the extra costs that causes could be the final nail in the coffin for that section of the route.

As for the fleet, well I can't see Ipswich Buses taking much on. Sure Beestons have about a dozen or so very well looked after Scania Omnidekkas from 2004-2006 (many of which are on schools) which would put many operators newer vehicles to shame. But at the end of the day these vehicles are not exactly young and the ex 2004 NCT OmniTowns and the 2004 Omnicities are hardly going to be in great demand.

The only thing Ipswich Buses might be interested in would the Enviro 400 MMCs. However two of them Beestons have sold in the last few months and the other two are normally exclusively on school runs and private hire contracts, so if Beestons are going to be staying in that game, they'd like to keep hold of them, you'd think.

It will be a shame to see yet another well regarded independent leaving the Ipswich bus scene.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Thing is that towards the end of 2019 it is no secret that Ipswich Buses were looking at the potential demand for an enhanced bus service for those in Ipswich working in Hadleigh. It's believed that they approached businesses in Hadleigh about the potential demand for better services.

The big loser of any takeover of the bus side of Beestons is going to be those living in Sudbury and Boxford The Sudbury to Hadleigh section of the route doesn't exactly pay it's way now. The extra dead running of having a depot in Ipswich that is at the wrong end of the route for both the morning and evening peak flows and the extra costs that causes could be the final nail in the coffin for that section of the route.

As for the fleet, well I can't see Ipswich Buses taking much on. Sure Beestons have about a dozen or so very well looked after Scania Omnidekkas from 2004-2006 (many of which are on schools) which would put many operators newer vehicles to shame. But at the end of the day these vehicles are not exactly young and the ex 2004 NCT OmniTowns and the 2004 Omnicities are hardly going to be in great demand.

The only thing Ipswich Buses might be interested in would the Enviro 400 MMCs. However two of them Beestons have sold in the last few months and the other two are normally exclusively on school runs and private hire contracts, so if Beestons are going to be staying in that game, they'd like to keep hold of them, you'd think.

It will be a shame to see yet another well regarded independent leaving the Ipswich bus scene.

Is there any evidence to back up this great conspiracy theory ?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Is there any evidence to back up this great conspiracy theory ?

Ipswich Buses were sniffing around Hadleigh towards the end of 2019 and there was talk then about them starting a service or looking to possibly acquire Beestons.

This was a statement from IB themselves pre-pandemic:

Ipswich Buses are currently working with local businesses in Hadleigh and the Suffolk Chamber of Commerce to find ways to enhance transport links between Ipswich and Hadleigh to support employment and education opportunities so please look out for questionnaires at your place of work or education.

The fact they only talk about that section of the route, pretty much suggests that a takeover of Beestons would result in the scrapping of the section of the 91 between Sudbury and Hadleigh.

There's been various rumours for the last little while about Beestons looking to sell up part of their business, so when you've got someone who is apparently willing to sell and another company who is looking to enter the same area, it's little surprise that a day might be on the cards.

 

[Kartenga]

This is more likely the bus side of things paying patronage has been devastatingly low probably because of the high price to use the service. They are a great company with fantastic staff but the COVID-19 situation has been a game changer the 91 is a commercial route is not profitable in its current form

 

[Cesarcollie]

This is more likely the bus side of things paying patronage has been devastatingly low probably because of the high price to use the service. They are a great company with fantastic staff but the COVID-19 situation has been a game changer the 91 is a commercial route is not profitable in its current form

Nor is any other bus route currently......!!

 

[dlp_888]

Cut the route into two - Ipswich Buses operating a 91 Ipswich-Hadleigh, and Chambers (based in Sudbury) running the Sudbury-Gt Cornard-Hadleigh section (maybe as a "791"?), with buses timed to connect at Hadleigh Magdalen Road.

The Ipswich Buses part would certainly fit in nicely with their ever-expanding "Babergh & Essex" operation (2/2A/92/93/94/97 etc.). Shame, as they appear to have lost interest in tidying up their own "Town" network, which is like a throwback to the 1980's. When the basic concept of a bus route connecting a housing estate to a retail park and/or key employment area, is yet to be discovered - in 2021 - , something is going drastically wrong.

 

[F Great Eastern]

This is more likely the bus side of things paying patronage has been devastatingly low probably because of the high price to use the service. They are a great company with fantastic staff but the COVID-19 situation has been a game changer the 91 is a commercial route is not profitable in its current form

The thing is though, from a friend who previously used the 91, apparently much of the patronage outside peak time even before the pandemic is free travel pass holders. I would imagine students aside, probably only the first couple of trips ex Hadleigh in the morning and probably the 17:15 ex Ipswich were the best performing services.

I know their fares are not exactly cheap, but at least they don't cut corners with maintenance and standard of staff that they employ. Operationally they seem to not throw the towel in during disruption so easily as other operators, too.