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Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

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peters

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D&G's website indicates they are taking over the 108/109 Macc - Leek / Leek - Ashbourne from 1st September.

Makes some interesting journeys technically possible - given their 'Day Return' is valid on Midland Classic it makes Manchester Airport to East Midlands Airport by bus possible on a £5.50 day ticket!

How would that work?

I get that you can do Manchester Airport to Macclesfield with 1/2 changes but I can't see any mention of Midland Classic serving Leek or Ashbourne or any mention of D&G operating a service from Leek or Ashbourne towards Burton to connect with Midland Classic services.
 
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gnolife

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How would that work?

I get that you can do Manchester Airport to Macclesfield with 1/2 changes but I can't see any mention of Midland Classic serving Leek or Ashbourne or any mention of D&G operating a service from Leek or Ashbourne towards Burton to connect with Midland Classic services.
In theory you can go
Manchester Airport - 288 - Altrincham - 88 - Knutsford - 88 - Macclesfield - 109 - Leek - 16 - Hanley - 14 - Stafford - 841 - Uttoxeter - 401/402/403 - Burton - 9 - East Midlands Airport
In practice, you'd be relying on a +0 connection at Macclesfield.
 

peters

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In theory you can go
Manchester Airport - 288 - Altrincham - 88 - Knutsford - 88 - Macclesfield - 109 - Leek - 16 - Hanley - 14 - Stafford - 841 - Uttoxeter - 401/402/403 - Burton - 9 - East Midlands Airport
In practice, you'd be relying on a +0 connection at Macclesfield.

Ah I missed that the 16 goes in two directions from Leek.

To allow a connection in Macclesfield you'd have to do
06:43 Manchester Airport to Altrincham (288)
08:05 Altrincham to Wilmslow (88)
09:35 Wilmslow to Macclesfield (130)
10:40 Macclesfield to Leek (109)

Which wouldn't work for other hours with the 288 and 109 being 2 hourly at present, while the 130 is every 90 minutes. It would also mean almost 3 hours after leaving Manchester Airport you've only got as far as Wilmslow, which any sane person would do using the train.
 

gnolife

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Ah I missed that the 16 goes in two directions from Leek.

To allow a connection in Macclesfield you'd have to do
06:43 Manchester Airport to Altrincham (288)
08:05 Altrincham to Wilmslow (88)
09:35 Wilmslow to Macclesfield (130)
10:40 Macclesfield to Leek (109)

Which wouldn't work for other hours with the 288 and 109 being 2 hourly at present, while the 130 is every 90 minutes. It would also mean almost 3 hours after leaving Manchester Airport you've only got as far as Wilmslow, which any sane person would do using the train.
You'd be far faster walking Manchester Airport to Wilmslow rather than wait for the bus, or perhaps a little bit more practical would be to walk to Wythenshawe and pick up the 130 from there.
 

33117

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I've noticed recently that at least 5 or 6 arriva drivers have jumped ship & gone to work for D&G.

Reasons quoted from a couple of drivers I know are better pay & conditions elsewhere plus adding an extra hour + onto their day due to having to run dead to winsford at the end of the day, dispose of their bus & then drive home to macc is annoying them.

D&G it seems are slowly creeping into arriva macclesfield territory now they've also got the 109. Gets me wondering if they'll consider buying out arriva in macc.
 

markymark2000

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I've noticed recently that at least 5 or 6 arriva drivers have jumped ship & gone to work for D&G.

Reasons quoted from a couple of drivers I know are better pay & conditions elsewhere plus adding an extra hour + onto their day due to having to run dead to winsford at the end of the day, dispose of their bus & then drive home to macc is annoying them.

D&G it seems are slowly creeping into arriva macclesfield territory now they've also got the 109. Gets me wondering if they'll consider buying out arriva in macc.
Why buy Macc when you can wait for Arriva to slowly drop sections and then D&G can pick it up and all at no cost. The risk then is Arriva kills the demand admittedly but it is possible.
Alternatively, D&G I think would just buy the routes off Arriva (if we pay you £x, then we will register these routes and you come off them and do not compete for so many years). I think D&G/The CentreBus Group would want their own depot and vehicles.
 

Baxenden Bank

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I may have misread the post someone made earlier. Has Arriva Macclesfield outstation closed permanently or just temporarily due to COVID service reductions / better availability of drivers at the main depot?
 

PaulWC

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Why buy Macc when you can wait for Arriva to slowly drop sections and then D&G can pick it up and all at no cost. The risk then is Arriva kills the demand admittedly but it is possible.
Alternatively, D&G I think would just buy the routes off Arriva (if we pay you £x, then we will register these routes and you come off them and do not compete for so many years). I think D&G/The CentreBus Group would want their own depot and vehicles.

That's what D&G have done in Crewe and Stoke - waited for Arriva and First to drop off routes and then take them over running them as basically as they can.

I've noticed recently that at least 5 or 6 arriva drivers have jumped ship & gone to work for D&G.

Reasons quoted from a couple of drivers I know are better pay & conditions elsewhere plus adding an extra hour + onto their day due to having to run dead to winsford at the end of the day, dispose of their bus & then drive home to macc is annoying them.

D&G it seems are slowly creeping into arriva macclesfield territory now they've also got the 109. Gets me wondering if they'll consider buying out arriva in macc.

Apologies if I've missed something here, but wouldn't D&G drivers from Macc have to run dead to Wincham at the end of the day?
 

markymark2000

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Apologies if I've missed something here, but wouldn't D&G drivers from Macc have to run dead to Wincham at the end of the day?
I think it would be a case of if they drove to Wincham or Crewe, they would be doing a variety of local routes and not driving for 1 hour to work to drive 1 hour back dead to Macc, do the duty then drive for another hour dead to the depot and then drive back.
Crewe depot you would be driving much more variety of routes and even if you were put on the 38, you would be in service not running dead.

I am surprised that D&G has better conditions as they aren't unionised are they?
 

PaulWC

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I think it would be a case of if they drove to Wincham or Crewe, they would be doing a variety of local routes and not driving for 1 hour to work to drive 1 hour back dead to Macc, do the duty then drive for another hour dead to the depot and then drive back.
Crewe depot you would be driving much more variety of routes and even if you were put on the 38, you would be in service not running dead.

I am surprised that D&G has better conditions as they aren't unionised are they?

OK. They'd still have to travel to and from Crewe or Wincham depot at the start/end of the shift, but I take your point about driving the bus dead from the Macc routes to and from Winsford.
 

peters

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OK. They'd still have to travel to and from Crewe or Wincham depot at the start/end of the shift, but I take your point about driving the bus dead from the Macc routes to and from Winsford.

I don't know it it's still the case but D&G used to do shift changeovers on the 88 with a new driver arriving by car and the relieved driver taking the car back.
 

Simon75

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For D&G , having the Arriva Macclesfield outstation would useful. In addition the High Peak 16 and 19 would be better transferred to D&G (reduce dead miles of about 30 miles each day from Dove Holes
 

33117

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Why buy Macc when you can wait for Arriva to slowly drop sections and then D&G can pick it up and all at no cost. The risk then is Arriva kills the demand admittedly but it is possible.
Alternatively, D&G I think would just buy the routes off Arriva (if we pay you £x, then we will register these routes and you come off them and do not compete for so many years). I think D&G/The CentreBus Group would want their own depot and vehicles.

What do you think will end up happening with arriva macc, will they carry on or slowly die off???

They currently have 9 routes running out of macc:

2 - Thornton Square
3 - Weston Estate
4 - Upton Priory
5/6 - Weston Estate/Upton Priory Circular Evening service

9 - Moss Rose
10 - Bollington
21 - Hurdsfield
38 - Crewe

Sure D&G or high peak may consider running those if arriva decide to close up shop.

At the moment macc depot is still currently shut, I walked past a couple of weeks back & it was completely dead. Macc services are being run from winsford currently with drivers heading there 1st thing to pick-up their buses then driving to macc.
 

Simon75

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What do you think will end up happening with arriva macc, will they carry on or slowly die off???

They currently have 9 routes running out of macc:

2 - Thornton Square
3 - Weston Estate
4 - Upton Priory
5/6 - Weston Estate/Upton Priory Circular Evening service

9 - Moss Rose
10 - Bollington
21 - Hurdsfield
38 - Crewe

Sure D&G or high peak may consider running those if arriva decide to close up shop.

At the moment macc depot is still currently shut, I walked past a couple of weeks back & it was completely dead. Macc services are being run from winsford currently with drivers heading there 1st thing to pick-up their buses then driving to macc.

Are all the buses that were at Macclesfield in Winsford now ? (Sorry if I miss understood)
 

markymark2000

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For D&G , having the Arriva Macclesfield outstation would useful. In addition the High Peak 16 and 19 would be better transferred to D&G (reduce dead miles of about 30 miles each day from Dove Holes
They would need a depot/outstation but I don't know if they would specifically want the Arriva land/building. D&G/Centrebus I think would want their own area. Bearing in mind they don't have deckers locally, there will be more areas available for them that aren't available for Arriva.
I don't know what route the 16 is, didn't know HP even ran that. If you mean the 14, that interworks with the 58.

What do you think will end up happening with arriva macc, will they carry on or slowly die off???

They currently have 9 routes running out of macc:

2 - Thornton Square
3 - Weston Estate
4 - Upton Priory
5/6 - Weston Estate/Upton Priory Circular Evening service

9 - Moss Rose
10 - Bollington
21 - Hurdsfield
38 - Crewe

Sure D&G or high peak may consider running those if arriva decide to close up shop.

At the moment macc depot is still currently shut, I walked past a couple of weeks back & it was completely dead. Macc services are being run from winsford currently with drivers heading there 1st thing to pick-up their buses then driving to macc.
What I think belongs in the speculative thread really more than this news thread. I think all that should be said in this thread is that Arriva have been slowly killing off Macclesfield for a good few years and the time will come at some point soon where they start giving up and letting D&G or High Peak take over.
 

peters

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38 - Crewe

That one might fit in with their other routes, given they operate a number of services around the Crewe area. I seem to remember when Arriva lost interest in most of the Knutsford area routes they kept running what was then the 288 and is now the 88 to Altrincham via Wilmslow for a number of years, which still fitted in nicely to their Altrincham area network. I think they only lost that because GHA offered to run it for a lower subsidy.
 

LOL The Irony

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That one might fit in with their other routes, given they operate a number of services around the Crewe area. I seem to remember when Arriva lost interest in most of the Knutsford area routes they kept running what was then the 288 and is now the 88 to Altrincham via Wilmslow for a number of years, which still fitted in nicely to their Altrincham area network. I think they only lost that because GHA offered to run it for a lower subsidy.
I recall them loosing everything within a short period of time, possibly everything at once. The 288 (later 88) & 289 went to GHA and the 300 to Bowers (later High Peak). d&g got the 300 first and went from there.
 

peters

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I recall them loosing everything within a short period of time, possibly everything at once. The 288 (later 88) & 289 went to GHA and the 300 to Bowers (later High Peak). d&g got the 300 first and went from there.

289 was operated by Swans Travel prior to GHA, although I think on occasions they used plain white buses. Arriva gave up on the 300 evening service first and gave up on the 300 daytime at around the same time the Bakerbus contract for the 27 was up, which Bowers won, which was why they were interested taking on the 300 as they already had Macclesfield to Knutsford. I understand when GHA took over the 27 that High Peak asked D&G to take over the 300 daytime service for logistical reasons. Arriva gave up the 300 altogether when they still had the 288, a local councilor suggested they might have fiddled the figures with regards to bus pass usage on the 300 by claiming drivers were always saying there was a fault with the machine regardless of which bus was used on the service.
 

ag51ruk

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Mikro's service 78 (Nantwich - Leighton Hospital) is running again despite not being listed on the Cheshire East website or on Traveline - unsurprisingly no one on either if the two buses I saw earlier
 

PaulWC

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Mikro's service 78 (Nantwich - Leighton Hospital) is running again despite not being listed on the Cheshire East website or on Traveline - unsurprisingly no one on either if the two buses I saw earlier

Yeah, my mum lives on the route down Capesthorne Road and she said she spotted it last Thursday. She told some of her friends who used to use it, but she did say she's still not seen anyone on it. Not surprising if no-one knows it's running.
 

peters

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Apologies if this has been posted before, but I noticed on the Cheshire East website about the 'Better deal for buses' funding. There were various plans for supporting services such as a Sunday 130, to improvements to many Leighton Hospital services. The council now has the money, but due to Covid 19 is considering reallocating the money:-


Sounds like the money's all gone already as they are now saying there's a risk of bus service cuts in the next financial year: https://www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk/news/18708863.subsidised-bus-services-threat-cheshire-east/
 

markymark2000

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Sounds like the money's all gone already as they are now saying there's a risk of bus service cuts in the next financial year: https://www.knutsfordguardian.co.uk/news/18708863.subsidised-bus-services-threat-cheshire-east/
I will never understand why councils are so bad at managing money. Money seems to go in and never come out meanwhile we pay for councillors and council leaders etc who live the high life at 'normal' peoples expense. Cheshire East isn't a small council nor is that that deprived, there is plenty of council tax going in there. That council a proper black hole for money.
 

Simon75

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They would need a depot/outstation but I don't know if they would specifically want the Arriva land/building. D&G/Centrebus I think would want their own area. Bearing in mind they don't have deckers locally, there will be more areas available for them that aren't available for Arriva.
I don't know what route the 16 is, didn't know HP even ran that. If you mean the 14, that interworks with the 58.


What I think belongs in the speculative thread really more than this news thread. I think all that should be said in this thread is that Arriva have been slowly killing off Macclesfield for a good few years and the time will come at some point soon where they start giving up and letting D&G or High Peak take over.

New thread to discuss Arriva Macclesfield/Winsford/Winsford

 

ShaunyFlynn

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D&G have now started to gobble up routes in Macclesfield, up until 2 years ago D&G ran zero services in Macclesfield, with the exception of the 5, 6 and 38 running on Sundays from its Crewe Depot. Now D&G are running 4 weekday services in Macclesfield from all three depots! (Adderley Green, Crewe and Wincham) Just makes me wonder if D&G are going to eventually buy out the Macclesfield Bus Services, I hope they don't (As I travel on the 130 on a daily basis) The service is really unreliable, and it doesn't help not having a bus tracker, but now that Centrebus now own DG as of December last year, I wonder if they will make DG buses trackable like High Peak Buses.
 

ag51ruk

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From the Cheshire East bus updates page:

130 bus service: D&G Bus will be withdrawing their 130 service on Saturday 3 October. A replacement service to start on Monday 5 October has been tendered but due to contractual requirements, we are unable to confirm the details of this service until 25 September - a further update will follow after this date.
 

peters

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Why does everyone look at D&G in Macclesfield as them expanding their ops commercially in the area. The 88 and 109 are both tenders and the 130 is complicated with what looks like some funding and some commercial going on. D&G are quite well known for putting in for all tenders and then looking at the logistics later on meaning they have expanding just be winning contracts or getting funding. Not commercial expansions as a result of them finding gaps in the market and taking risks.


The 38 is the only fully commercial route they run in Macclesfield.

I thought the 130 was commercial, at least for Monday to Friday.

D&G's first route in the Knutsford area was the daytime 300 on a commercial basis, after they took over the existing timetable from High Peak, who didn't want to continue operating the 300 after losing the 27 to GHA Coaches. However, after they operated the route for a while they decided Saturday services weren't commercially viable so only Mon-Fri daytime services remained commercial. Then it was part replaced by the short-lived 88A, which again was Mon-Fri only. It has been claimed the 88A was operating around the break even mark but they lost a lot of money on their Macclesfield to Manchester Airport service (which ran at the same time Arriva were still operating an hourly Macclesfield to East Didsbury service), so withdrew all commercial routes which they weren't making healthy profits on in response.

There's a common trend when you look at D&G's commercial services past and present that either there's no Saturday service or the Saturday service is subsided. I think the problem is they always seem to try running the same timetable on a Saturday but with a later start and earlier finish. Running a slightly different route on Saturdays and actually running an evening service might be more successful.

I can see D&G jumping in more routes as/when Arriva pull off but what I can also see happening is a full network review with D&G, High Peak and the council working together to make the best use of resources mixing up routes.

Now Go Goodwins have the 391/392 routes it might be they'd be interested in running a local Macclesfield service using the same vehicles, in the same way that High Peak's vehicles which arrive in Macclesfield on the Buxton service do something else before they operate a return service to Buxton.

but due to contractual requirements, we are unable to confirm the details of this service until 25 September - a further update will follow after this date.

Strange that they can't confirm what has been put out to tender. Are they perhaps looking at different options e.g. one option a straight replacement for the D&G service, while another is working with TfGM to extend the existing 42C to Macclesfield?
 
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