East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[Dunnyrail]

There was a consultation last year on 5 proposed route alignments. All of them had a southerly approach to Cambridge which annoyed some of the more vocal locals so I suspect that it is a long way off being decided.

I have no strong feeling about a St Neots station as I don't know the area well enough but a southern approach to Cambridge is the only one which make sense.

Indeed so, one of my biggest worries is that a line going over the ECML just South of Barford Power Station could create a St.Neots South Station so close to the existing one that could then be closed. This would be an environmental disaster as so many people that live in the old and new estates near the existing st Station use the train for commuting and leisure. They would need to get in their cars to access St.Neots if built. But currently there are no plans in the A428 dueling from Black Cat to Caxton to allow for links to such a Station. There are also plans to build a small City in Beds near Wyboston with no thoughts of a Railway or other Transport link. The possible planned Estate near Tempsford with possible East West Station has also gone quiet of late. No joined up thinking as usual.

 

[Bald Rick]

Indeed so, one of my biggest worries is that a line going over the ECML just South of Barford Power Station could create a St.Neots South Station so close to the existing one that could then be closed.

no chance of that. See Luton.

 

[Dunnyrail]

no chance of that. See Luton.

Just hope you are right.

 

[Snow1964]

DfT Press release today (22 June)
Oxford station phase 2 works Transport & Works Act order

The Order as applied for would confer powers of compulsory acquisition on NR for the purpose of acquiring land and rights and use of land to facilitate the improvement and upgrade works to create a new western entrance to Oxford Station, additional railway track and platforms, new rail bridges, highway improvements and associated works. These are collectively referred to as the Oxford Station Phase 2 Improvements (“the OSP2 project”).

Oxford Station phase 2 improvements: Transport and Works Act order

Approval to confer compulsory acquisition powers on Network Rail to facilitate improvement and upgrade works in and around Oxford Station.

www.gov.uk

 

[Brissle Girl]

Amazed to see that the company (SSP) which operates the catering facilities at the station (as indeed they do widely across the railway network) was an objector to the proposal, and one of a very small number for which NR didn’t reach an agreement during the process.

 

[tspaul26]

Amazed to see that the company (SSP) which operates the catering facilities at the station (as indeed they do widely across the railway network) was an objector to the proposal, and one of a very small number for which NR didn’t reach an agreement during the process.

I’m not: they’re losing the Pumpkin cafe unit and it’s not being replaced (certainly, not ad interim).

Fairly common to object to schemes like this even if you support it overall, though, because it allows you to raise specific concerns at a hearing or inquiry and facilitates further negotiations with the promoter.

 

[swt_passenger]

I’m not: they’re losing the Pumpkin cafe unit and it’s not being replaced (certainly, not ad interim).

Fairly common to object to schemes like this even if you support it overall, though, because it allows you to raise specific concerns at a hearing or inquiry and facilitates further negotiations with the promoter.

Their contract is apparently with GWR and according to the report already covered the possibility of closure during platform works. What also stood out in the same section was Rail Gourmet objecting even though not affected at all.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I’m not: they’re losing the Pumpkin cafe unit and it’s not being replaced (certainly, not ad interim).

Fairly common to object to schemes like this even if you support it overall, though, because it allows you to raise specific concerns at a hearing or inquiry and facilitates further negotiations with the promoter.

It's a bit like biting the hand that feeds you though. SSP has a huge commercial relationship with the railway network, which presumably is hugely beneficial to it.

I would have thought p*ssing off a trading partner/landord and putting any additional risk on what is already a long, protracted and expensive process for NR (which GWR will clearly support) would not be particularly clever in terms of relationship management.

 

[ashkeba]

It's a bit like biting the hand that feeds you though. SSP has a huge commercial relationship with the railway network, which presumably is hugely beneficial to it.

I would have thought p*ssing off a trading partner/landord and putting any additional risk on what is already a long, protracted and expensive process for NR (which GWR will clearly support) would not be particularly clever in terms of relationship management.

Equally, I would think that NR gets some of the money from SSP rents eventually so p*ssing off a national-scale tenant would not be particularly clever in terms of relationship management. I wonder what has gone wrong?

 

[Sonik]

Equally, I would think that NR gets some of the money from SSP rents eventually so p*ssing off a national-scale tenant would not be particularly clever in terms of relationship management. I wonder what has gone wrong?

I doubt either GWR or NR care too much. Their priority is remodeling the station and any tenant considerations will be secondary to that.

It's a premium retail location as are all major rail stations. You don't see many empty units in such places.

 

[fgwrich]

I have to say, while I'm pleased that the proposal sees a new proper entrance on the West side, I hope they plan to replace the rather tired and leaky NSE installed footbridge - those proposals I've seen so far retain it. The main station building, if a little cramped during peak times or football days, isn't too bad.

 

[JamesT]

I have to say, while I'm pleased that the proposal sees a new proper entrance on the West side, I hope they plan to replace the rather tired and leaky NSE installed footbridge - those proposals I've seen so far retain it. The main station building, if a little cramped during peak times or football days, isn't too bad.

The order documents do mention the current bridge is reaching its limits for handling passengers.
The full master plan as envisaged by the City Council involves replacing the main station with a concourse that bridges over the platforms. (Documents can be found at https://www.oxford.gov.uk/downloads/download/882/oxford_station_spd ).
Turning platform 2 from a bay into a through is going to involve knocking down the existing station building, so the opportunity is there to make something fit for purpose.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The order documents do mention the current bridge is reaching its limits for handling passengers.
The full master plan as envisaged by the City Council involves replacing the main station with a concourse that bridges over the platforms. (Documents can be found at https://www.oxford.gov.uk/downloads/download/882/oxford_station_spd ).
Turning platform 2 from a bay into a through is going to involve knocking down the existing station building, so the opportunity is there to make something fit for purpose.

That sounds good. The present station is beyond grim and must give a terrible impression to the large number of tourists that use it.

 

[Falcon1200]

The main station building, if a little cramped during peak times or football days, isn't too bad.

The new Up side entrance, near the footbridge, has made a difference - As long as they have enough staff to keep it open, which is not always the case.

 

[Mikey C]

That sounds good. The present station is beyond grim and must give a terrible impression to the large number of tourists that use it.

It’s not that bad, just a bit small.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s not that bad, just a bit small.

It's dirty, poorly lit, has nasty toilets, a couple of empty retail units and has as its main visible feature an often closed booking office and a gateline. Revenue protection as the main feature you see as you enter does not make for a good impression, it is one of the main reasons I hate Manchester Victoria. All in all, it is a building not designed for passenger utility and comfort, but for ensuring they have paid at minimum cost.

Not a nice station. Not the worst, but as one of the major tourism centres it doesn't give a particularly good impression at all.

 

[fishwomp]

It's dirty, poorly lit, has nasty toilets, a couple of empty retail units and has as its main visible feature an often closed booking office and a gateline. Revenue protection as the main feature you see as you enter does not make for a good impression, it is one of the main reasons I hate Manchester Victoria. All in all, it is a building not designed for passenger utility and comfort, but for ensuring they have paid at minimum cost.

A visible gate line is great utility for the passenger. Immediate access to the thing you came to the station for.

Think of airports, where there is a compulsory long walk through retail before you can see the gates, let's not believe that's utility. At least the railway still knows its job - even though retail rents and parking are great money makers for it

 

[hwl]

A visible gate line is great utility for the passenger. Immediate access to the thing you came to the station for.

Agreed

Think of airports, where there is a compulsory long walk through retail before you can see the gates, let's not believe that's utility. At least the railway still knows its job - even though retail rents and parking are great money makers for it

Fundamentally it couldn't cope with the passenger volumes pre covid, though the new "Chiltern" gateline did help a bit. The station building fundamentally wasn't built for automated gatelines, passenger volumes or suitable adapted by removing a retail unit to enlarge the main gateline.

 

[fishwomp]

Agreed

Fundamentally it couldn't cope with the passenger volumes pre covid, though the new "Chiltern" gateline did help a bit. The station building fundamentally wasn't built for automated gatelines, passenger volumes or suitable adapted by removing a retail unit to enlarge the main gateline.

What you suggest is returning it to exactly what it was!

At some point in the late 90s the current building was reconfigured - where the M&S is today used to be another set of doors onto the platform, those were locked out and a gate line installed (there didn't used to be one) on the remaining doors.

A few years later the shop was built, obscuring the old doors permanently; probably about the same time that the travel centre was replaced by the loos, and the current ticket desks were opened (I don't remember what was there then, maybe station offices )

 

[II]

It's dirty, poorly lit, has nasty toilets, a couple of empty retail units...

Those two retail units are due to be combined and turned into a Greggs. Work should have already started but is obviously delayed for some reason.

The station itself was designed and built at a time when passenger numbers and forecasts were a fraction of what they are now, and it was huge compared with what it replaced. However, along with the footbridge it is now starting to become in quite serious need of replacement. Hopefully the new platform 4/5 exit will help with passenger flow a little - 20% is stretching it a bit though IMHO, the main problem is when a packed train from London arrives at weekends and virtually all of those passengers are tourists unlikely to want to head towards Botley. Hopefully large toilets will be provided on that side to relieve the current facilities (both on platform 4 and the concourse) where queues of 15-20 for the ladies aren't uncommon.

 

[fishwomp]

[..] IMHO, the main problem is when a packed train from London arrives at weekends and virtually all of those passengers are tourists unlikely to want to head towards Botley. [..]

I thought the same until I saw that with the down side building being closer to the road than the current up building, it could be quite appealing for going into the city. Depends on where the footbridge is - because the down platforms will be an island so there's not a short and stair free exit like there is today (which has almost never been open when I've wanted it).

 

[ashkeba]

I doubt either GWR or NR care too much. Their priority is remodeling the station and any tenant considerations will be secondary to that.

It's a premium retail location as are all major rail stations. You don't see many empty units in such places.

Except for the 40 empty units sorry "retail opportunities" that CBRE are advertising at Paddington, and many others. All is not currently well in retail.

 

[fgwrich]

Except for the 40 empty units sorry "retail opportunities" that CBRE are advertising at Paddington, and many others. All is not currently well in retail.

To be honest, I wonder how much of that is down to CBRE though. Our local shopping centre is now operated by CBRE, and thanks in part to their high rents, seem to be doing well at driving retailers out of the centre while other local large shopping centres (Think Westgate, Oracle, West Quay) seem to be doing well to attract new tenants. My workplace has it's maintenance contract subbed out to them and they aren't the easiest to deal with either!

 

[Horizon22]

Except for the 40 empty units sorry "retail opportunities" that CBRE are advertising at Paddington, and many others. All is not currently well in retail.

Where did you get that from? There's nowhere near that many in the station.

 

[stuu]

Except for the 40 empty units sorry "retail opportunities" that CBRE are advertising at Paddington, and many others. All is not currently well in retail.

Those are in the new mall where the new Bakerloo Line entrance is. Which isn't close to finished yet

 

[Horizon22]

Those are in the new mall where the new Bakerloo Line entrance is. Which isn't close to finished yet

I gathered it may have been this!

 

[ashkeba]

Where did you get that from? There's nowhere near that many in the station.

From a CBRE marketing email. It didn't mention they're not available yet, like a later poster suggested.

 

[DavidGrain]

When I go to Oxford Station I head straight to the bus station for a bus into the city centre. I do not see the need for an entrance on the Botley Road unless they build a large car park there.

 

[JamesT]

When I go to Oxford Station I head straight to the bus station for a bus into the city centre. I do not see the need for an entrance on the Botley Road unless they build a large car park there.

It alleviates the pressure on the main entrance and the overbridge. I could imagine at busy times it may be quicker for passengers alighting at platform 4/5 to exit at the new entrance and walk round to the station forecourt (or go to the stops on Frideswide Square for buses that don't come into the station).

Looking further into the future, the Oxford Masterplan moves the buses from the station forecourt to a new station taking up part of the carpark currently to the South of Botley Road.

 

[WatcherZero]

Grant Shapps: The first thing I would do is cancel East-West rail to save £3-5m.

Mr Shapps said he believed it would be the Department for Transport's first choice for cancellation. He proposed bringing forward a planned tax cut before moving to a 'Star Chamber' review of expensive government projects for big money savings.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps says East West Rail project should be cancelled

He said it would save £3-5 million

www.cambridge-news.co.uk

Well that doesnt bode well for government support