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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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swt_passenger

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Why 216m? Is it simply a case of "it's always been that", or is there some sort of very logical explanation?
I think it’s twice the length of the manufactured rail. IIRC the rail welding plant at Eastleigh is designed to join two lengths of 108m.
 

Bald Rick

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For the Balfour Beatty machine, I was wondering how, (or if), the foot of the rail is protected, assuming they have to pull it along the ballast? Presumably for a renewal the delivery train can position it outside the existing tracks beforehand, but it looks to be a weak aspect of the new construction process...
Either drag it (as you say) or I have seen small tracked gantries do the job.


Why 216m? Is it simply a case of "it's always been that", or is there some sort of very logical explanation?

To be honest I don’t know. I always assumed it was a metric conversion of an imperial measure, but appears not to be.

I've got no idea, but 216m is 240yds, so 12 x 60ft panels maybe?

216 is 236 yards, so that doesn’t quite stack up.

It might be as simple a the maximum length the rolling mill can do.
 

ABB125

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To be honest I don’t know. I always assumed it was a metric conversion of an imperial measure, but appears not to be.

216 is 236 yards, so that doesn’t quite stack up.

It might be as simple a the maximum length the rolling mill can do.
Thanks - that also seems like as good a reason as any!
 

3973EXL

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I think it’s twice the length of the manufactured rail. IIRC the rail welding plant at Eastleigh is designed to join two lengths of 108m.

Correct.
Borders video shows 108m rail being unloaded. Rail is rolled at this length with no welds.
216m strings have one weld.

LWRT using perch wagons originally conveyed rail up to 600ft. Additional wagon was added to carry 216m.
RDT from new 216m

Workington could roll rail to 72m but the site could only handle rail up to 36m. Sent out to be welded at Workington, Castleton or Eastleigh.
Imported rail was available at 108m with no welds which the customer required to minimise the number of welds. So rail production was switched to a new facility at Scunthorpe and Workington closed, including the welding depot there and Castleton.

Rails can be welded at Scunthorpe or the Network Rail Depot Eastleigh where Imported rail is also welded.
 

fishwomp

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In the shorter term the focus is getting the section Bicester - Calvert sectional operation for HS2 material deliveries hence starting relaying from Bicester. Calvert - Bletchley is 1-2 years behind that.
Excellent! I hope so, I thought it might only be a spur for ballast delivery.

I had read that tracklaying wouldn't happen until 2022:

2021:
Build a new station at Winslow
Prepare the ground for the new railway to be constructed
Begin work to build a new road bridge at Charbridge Lane in Bicester
Continue with our bridge and structure refurbishments
Rebuild Bletchley flyover

2022:
Install the new railway tracks
Complete Bletchley flyover work
Installation of the new railway track will be completed between Bicester and Claydon Junction
Begin putting in the new signalling system, power and communications systems

 

Mikey C

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Excellent! I hope so, I thought it might only be a spur for ballast delivery.

I had read that tracklaying wouldn't happen until 2022:

2021:
Build a new station at Winslow
Prepare the ground for the new railway to be constructed
Begin work to build a new road bridge at Charbridge Lane in Bicester
Continue with our bridge and structure refurbishments
Rebuild Bletchley flyover

2022:
Install the new railway tracks
Complete Bletchley flyover work
Installation of the new railway track will be completed between Bicester and Claydon Junction
Begin putting in the new signalling system, power and communications systems

It's a bit weird/worrying that while it still features on the route map, there's no mention of the route via Aylesbury on the NR website
 

snowball

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All the metric lengths mentioned in this discussion - 216m, 108m, 36m, 72m - are multiples of 18m.

60ft to the nearest metre is 18m.

So it looks like a case of premature rounding.
 

camflyer

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More moaning about a southern approach to Cambridge

Sebastian Kindersley was speaking after the publication of the East West Rail Company’s consultation about its plans last week.

“People are frightened that their properties and their communities are going to be destroyed,” he told the Cambridge Independent. “There are people who see that the alignment map shows the bottoms of their gardens disappearing.”

Mr Kindersley is chairman of the CamBedRailRoad, which is campaigning for a northern approach to Cambridge to be evaluated to the same degree as alternative routes.

He continued: “I think if I was a resident of one of the impacted parishes, I’d find it very difficult not to go out with a placard right now and start marching up and down.
So a guy who doesn't even live there says that "People are frightened for their communities’". I especially like "Sagentia, like many Cambridge companies, is aiming for a global market and requires international travel or good fibre optic links rather than passenger links to Bletchley" as if the concepts of good local and international links are incompatible
 
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hwl

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All the metric lengths mentioned in this discussion - 216m, 108m, 36m, 72m - are multiples of 18m.

60ft to the nearest metre is 18m.

So it looks like a case of premature rounding.
60' = 18.29m
12x 60' = 219.36m
 

jfowkes

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Article from New Civil Engineer. In summary:
HS2 contractors begin work on key East West Rail bridge

Contractors working on High Speed 2 (HS2) have begun construction of a key bridge where the East West Rail line will cross the high speed rail route in Calvert, Buckinghamshire.

Excellent integration of two vastly different projects!
 

Neen Sollars

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"Alongside the bridge, HS2 will also deliver a new junction that could allow East West Rail trains to also serve Aylesbury and Aylesbury Parkway."

Quote from the informative article above. Answers a few questions. So a junction will be there but not necessarily the line to Aylesbury Parkway.
 

swt_passenger

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"Alongside the bridge, HS2 will also deliver a new junction that could allow East West Rail trains to also serve Aylesbury and Aylesbury Parkway."

Quote from the informative article above. Answers a few questions. So a junction will be there but not necessarily the line to Aylesbury Parkway.
As I see it the line past Aylesbury Vale Parkway (AVP) already exists and will have to be reinstated, as it’s needed for access to the existing Calvert waste handling facility, (that HS2 are resiting anyway).

The question is surely only about the possibility of services - and the new platform at AVP that would be needed.
 

Neen Sollars

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I would guess that the line from Aylesbury Parkway to wherever HS2 starts to use part of the existing formation would have to be upgraded and re-laid, AP station itself will need a new platform (s)? The article only states the junction will be delivered by HS2 (and probably connected by EWR) I would also guess that whilst HS2 are constructing their long cutting section they may leave a bare formation above on the eastern side for future EWR construction. We will have to wait and see. I would be interested to see a track plan of the new Calvert Waste Facility if anyone would share.
 

BrianW

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Article from New Civil Engineer. In summary:


Excellent integration of two vastly different projects!
Good to hear, but ...
Who is paying, and does it matter? I guess it will be clear as to which contract (and contractor) is responsible for this, esp if (when) something goes wrong ;)
I would imagine (could be wrong) that as a general 'principle' whoever comes after should pay, eg a 'new' railway regarding bridges or level crossings for pre-existing roads?
As both EWR and HS2 are private concerns this could be important for their shareholders, stakeholders and ultimately customers?
Any Forumers know?
 

hwl

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Good to hear, but ...
Who is paying,
HS2 as they are effectively altering exiting alignment, the rest is not covered is EWR's problem...
and does it matter? I guess it will be clear as to which contract (and contractor) is responsible for this, esp if (when) something goes wrong ;)
I would imagine (could be wrong) that as a general 'principle' whoever comes after should pay, eg a 'new' railway regarding bridges or level crossings for pre-existing roads?
 

edwin_m

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Good to hear, but ...
Who is paying, and does it matter? I guess it will be clear as to which contract (and contractor) is responsible for this, esp if (when) something goes wrong ;)
I would imagine (could be wrong) that as a general 'principle' whoever comes after should pay, eg a 'new' railway regarding bridges or level crossings for pre-existing roads?
As both EWR and HS2 are private concerns this could be important for their shareholders, stakeholders and ultimately customers?
Any Forumers know?
Neither EWR nor HS2 are private concerns, they are both essentially creatures of government so any dispute will just come from taxpayers by one route or another (and cost more in total than if there was no dispute).

If they've done it properly they will have defined scope for each project, a set of defined interfaces and a programme that doesn't have the two sets of contractors working anywhere near the same place at the same time unless absolutely unavoidable. This reduces cost, disruption and risk. The linked press release actually says that the HS2 contractor is building 3km of the formation for EWR. Once they have done that the EWR contractor can lay their track without much interaction with whatever HS2 is doing underneath the bridge.
 

The Planner

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Article from New Civil Engineer. In summary:


Excellent integration of two vastly different projects!
Ha ha! If only you knew....

I would guess that the line from Aylesbury Parkway to wherever HS2 starts to use part of the existing formation would have to be upgraded and re-laid, AP station itself will need a new platform (s)? The article only states the junction will be delivered by HS2 (and probably connected by EWR) I would also guess that whilst HS2 are constructing their long cutting section they may leave a bare formation above on the eastern side for future EWR construction. We will have to wait and see. I would be interested to see a track plan of the new Calvert Waste Facility if anyone would share.
The new facility is effectively a set of sidings and a cripple off a loop at Greatmoor opposite the waste to energy plant. I would be surprised if it isnt on the web as a planning application somewhere.
 

swt_passenger

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Ha ha! If only you knew....


The new facility is effectively a set of sidings and a cripple off a loop at Greatmoor opposite the waste to energy plant. I would be surprised if it isnt on the web as a planning application somewhere.
It’s a TWA order. Here’s the link, but I suspect detailed discussion is getting off topic for this thread:
 

Neen Sollars

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Swt-p Thanks for the link. No. Not off topic. Milton Keynes to London via Aylesbury Prince Risborough and High Wycombe, very much part of the original plan, and MK to AYL still part of of it. Difficult for me to clearly interpret the drawings. But it looks like the waste gantries and unloading yards have shifted from the west to the east side of both HS2 and EWR. The only rail access to the site appears to be from the south. So loco runs round in the yard and departs in same direction as it arrived. They could top and tail if the wanted to use EWR. Seems clear that EWR link from Claydon to Aylesbury will be single tracked
 

tspaul26

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As both EWR and HS2 are private concerns this could be important for their shareholders, stakeholders and ultimately customers?

They are both owned by the Secretary of State for Transport so in practice it makes little difference

I would be surprised if it isnt on the web as a planning application somewhere.

It’s a TWA order. Here’s the link, but I suspect detailed discussion is getting off topic for this thread:

Unfortunately, it’s not that simple. The TWAO plans have to be slotted into the deposited plans associated with the HS2 phase 1 Act. It’s the latter that cover the new EWR junction at Calvert, the new EWR alignment from Calvert to Greatmoor as well as a slice of the EWR ‘mainline’ between Bicester and Winslow.

And there will eventually be a DCO on top of that!
 

civ-eng-jim

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I would guess that the line from Aylesbury Parkway to wherever HS2 starts to use part of the existing formation would have to be upgraded and re-laid, AP station itself will need a new platform (s)? The article only states the junction will be delivered by HS2 (and probably connected by EWR) I would also guess that whilst HS2 are constructing their long cutting section they may leave a bare formation above on the eastern side for future EWR construction. We will have to wait and see. I would be interested to see a track plan of the new Calvert Waste Facility if anyone would share.

HS2 are designing and constructing the track bed for an Up and a Down line to the east of where the original great central line ran, including all bridges and culverts. There will be a ~900m-long bat mitigation structure at Sheephouse Wood which spans both HS2 and EWR

It is currently proposed to only provide a single line on the "Up" alignment with provision to install a Down line - therefore no need to do anything at AVP yet. However, as the Planner has said, the future installation of the railway systems is currently paused.

I believe EWR designed the Greatmoor Sidings but HS2 was responsible for the waste transfer bit run by FCC

1618480570873.png
 

alexx

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This has just appeared in my letterbox addressed to the occupier (I’m in the Bicester area), one thing to note (if it hadn’t already been said enough times already) is that Aylesbury and AVP are showing as potential future sections and not part of the initial project.
 

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EveningStar

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The image below is an extract from the Environment Agency flood risk map. The dark and light blue areas represent flood zones 3 and 2 respectively (in popular parlance, ‘floodplain’).

The dark blue shading with white diagonal stripes denotes areas benefitting from flood defences.

...

There is a further issue in that (unlike houses) building a long embankment across a floodplain traps flood water, often exacerbates flood risk nearby or further upstream and can have serious effects on water flow and ecology downstream. This requires significant infrastructure interventions such as drainage and viaducts in order to avoid and mitigate these impacts.

Good comments.

My masters degree in civil engineering majored in hydrology, and one case study was the effect of an abandoned railway embankment on a flood plain. Quite scary how it can back up the water. Ryther Viaduct on the Selby Diversion is a good example of how to get around the problem.

EA flood risk maps are indicative, not definitive. They are good, yet I always treat them as a starting point to understand what is going on with any site.
 

tspaul26

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My masters degree in civil engineering majored in hydrology, and one case study was the effect of an abandoned railway embankment on a flood plain. Quite scary how it can back up the water. Ryther Viaduct on the Selby Diversion is a good example of how to get around the problem.
My masters is in common sense*: if you build a big bund in a river valley chances are you’re gonna have problems!

*Plus professional experience from working in the planning system.
 

fishwomp

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This has just appeared in my letterbox addressed to the occupier (I’m in the Bicester area), one thing to note (if it hadn’t already been said enough times already) is that Aylesbury and AVP are showing as potential future sections and not part of the initial project.
Received one of those in Oxford this week. Quite odd - every house in Oxford would too - am not sure the value of that. Pretty much every other decision has already been taken (and is under construction) that has relevance west of Bletchley.. no wonder consultation is expensive. I will read it, but there are literally thousands of these documents going straight to the recycling box around here.
 
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