East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[snowball]

Before the scope of works to Bletchley flyover was increased, would the full cost have been charged to the east-west rail project?

Now that the scope has increased, will the new higher cost be fully charged to EWR?

 

[Bald Rick]

Before the scope of works to Bletchley flyover was increased, would the full cost have been charged to the east-west rail project?

Now that the scope has increased, will the new higher cost be fully charged to EWR?

It’s all an EWR project, so clearly all the cost goes to EWR.

 

[alexx]

Here's a couple of pics taken yesterday from the works at Charbridge Lane in Bicester. The first is looking towards Bletchley, and the second towards Bicester. Seems quite a bit of progress has been made since Andyjs247's post the week before last as some of the piles for the new bridge are in, and the trackbed is looking a little less like a swamp.

 

[yorkie]

Just a reminder this is for EWR updates only.

I understand people will want to discuss other matters which may be related; to discuss anything else please create a thread in the appropriate forum section such as Other Transport for road schemes or Speculative Ideas for speculative discussion.

Many thanks

 

[Phillipimo]

For those on twitter https://twitter.com/ProgressEast provides regular photo updates on progress (without speculation(!))

 

[davetheguard]

For those on twitter https://twitter.com/ProgressEast provides regular photo updates on progress (without speculation(!))

Thanks a lot for this link; great to see some real progress!

 

[flitwickbeds]

Seems some NIMBY groups in Bedford are unhappy with the chosen route to Cambridge.

Further consultation called for as opposition grows to chosen East West Rail route - Bedford Independent

Bedford residents, councillors and MPs have called for further consultation on the rail link between Oxford and Cambridge as...

www.bedfordindependent.co.uk

Bedford residents, councillors and MPs have called for further consultation on the rail link between Oxford and Cambridge as opposition to the proposed route mounts.

In January 2020, the government announced that East West Rail (EWR) Route E – through Bedford Midland station – had been chosen.

While there is universal agreement that an East – West rail link is vital to the infrastructure of the region, critics of the chosen route say it is the most expensive, will bring 24-hour freight trains through the heart of the town and will devastate the local environment.

One petition, calling for Bedford Borough Council (BBC) to review their decision to support the chosen route, has accumulated over 1,000 signatures in two weeks.

Also has this interesting quote:

However, according to the report by Kilborn Consulting, commissioned by Bedford Borough Council in March 2019, “The location of the Wixams station, which has been fixed by recent work for BBC and is tightly constrained by signalling, electrification and developer requirements.

“In order to capture funding from the developer, the Wixams station will be built well before the EWR is under construction.”

Moderator note: Discussion regarding Wixam station has been moved to the following threads:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wixams-station-progress-updates.214579/ (updates; non-speculative)

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-wixams-station-be-built-as-a-mml-station-if-its-not-built-as-part-of-east-west-rail.214578/

 

[Energy]

Seems some NIMBY groups in Bedford are unhappy with the chosen route to Cambridge.

Further consultation called for as opposition grows to chosen East West Rail route - Bedford Independent

Bedford residents, councillors and MPs have called for further consultation on the rail link between Oxford and Cambridge as...

www.bedfordindependent.co.uk

Also has this interesting quote:



I assumed the proposed Wixams station was now dead and buried, especially after "Bedford South" (a potential station on EWR, near to Wixams and the Interchange Retail Park; linking to the MML but avoding Bedford Midland station) was killed off after choosing the preferred route instead. I know the report/quote is from 2019 but is there any further progress on Wixams as a Thameslink-only station?

At this rate EWR will never be built if there is more consultation.

 

[richieb1971]

I am a member of several Bedford Facebook groups and momentum on the appeal of the route seems to be focused around the sharp right into Clapham and the nearby woods. At least 2 posters claim their properties are in direct alignment with route E.

Whilst alot of the alignment has vast areas it can go, the turnoff near the a6/sainsburys is so narrow there is only one path it can go.

The banner I saw was low res and states in black and white freight trains are going to run on it 24 hours a day.

 

[Ianno87]

It's the "24/7" freight issue again, like in Cambridge.

It'll be EWR's equivalent to HS2's "just about businessmen getting to Birmingham 20 minutes faster".

 

[snowball]

At this rate EWR will never be built if there is more consultation.

I don't think there will be any consultations specifically to meet the calls for more consultation, but further consultations are inevitable when they move from a preferred corridor to a specific proposed route.

 

[Bald Rick]

but further consultations are inevitable when they move from a preferred corridor to a specific proposed route.

Not just inevitable, but a statutory requirement.

 

[Trainee9]

At the Bletchley viaduct site, piling was going on for the past month or two alongside the remaining flyover near Bletchley station & the proposed high level station site.
In the past two weeks, large diameter piling was in progress with a bigger rig at the site of Pier 30 (near the Buckingham Road & Saxon St roundabout), which was demolished last year. One assumes that it will be reinstated with new foundations and pier. In the past couple of days, the big piling rig went and now large diameter piling is taking place at the site of Pier 26, demolished last year, on the other side of the Buckingham road. One assumes that a new pier will be built on new foundations to fill the gap between Piers 25 & 27. It is hard to see what exactly is happening behind the solid board site fence.

 

[mr_jrt]

I suspect there has been a bit of collaboration going on in the background. If the route doesn't go via Bedford Midland then it won't serve Cambourne, and if it doesn't serve Cambourne, then it won't have to swing south to run through the area being protested by the Cambridge lot.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's the "24/7" freight issue again, like in Cambridge.

It'll be EWR's equivalent to HS2's "just about businessmen getting to Birmingham 20 minutes faster".

Don’t let the facts etc, eh?

Its pretty clear from the TWA inspectors report for western section phase 2, (the bit currently under way), that freight is no longer much of a priority for the route. No realistic sources and destinations for 24/7 freight anyway...

 

[Oxfordblues]

I was on Bicester Road bridge, Launton this afternoon looking west at the new concrete columns for Charbridge Lane bridge and couldn't help noticing that they appear to be foul of the trackbed. I'm no civil engineer (indeed I've been known to be quite uncivil at times!) but there can't have been a dreadful mistake. Could it be that they're temporary supports which will be removed once the deck is in place? Or might they be jacked out of the way to their correct position later? If so, why were they made on-site? This blurred image gives an idea:
View attachment 91381

 

[steamybrian]

The last 6 comments have been discussing Coventry- Leamington line....!

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is an infrastructure & stations thread to discuss progress updates with East-West Rail

If anyone wishes to discuss any spin-off matters please ensure that you create a new thread (if there isn't one already)

If anyone sees any posts that are off topic and/or speculative in the wrong thread/forum section please report the first off topic post using the report button, and let us know the details of any further off topic posts in your report. Thanks

The last 6 comments have been discussing Coventry- Leamington line....!

These posts have been moved to:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-east-west-rail-be-an-alternative-route-for-freight-trains-to-avoid-the-route-via-kenilworth.214577/#post-5014017

I have also moved Wixham posts to:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/wixams-station-progress-updates.214579/ (non-speculative updates)

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-wixams-station-be-built-as-a-mml-station-if-its-not-built-as-part-of-east-west-rail.214578/

If anyone sees any posts that are off topic and/or speculative in the wrong thread/forum section please report the first off topic post using the report button, and let us know the details of any further off topic posts in your report. Thanks

 

[richieb1971]

Tories hit out at ‘political’ vote which exposed group’s division on East West Rail route controversy - Bedford Independent

Bedford Council’s Conservative leader slammed the Liberal Democrats for gutter politics over taking a recorded vote on the...

www.bedfordindependent.co.uk

Bedford Council’s Conservative leader slammed the Liberal Democrats for gutter politics over taking a recorded vote on the divisive issue of the proposed route of the East West Rail.

At a combative meeting of the council this week the Lib Dems hit back at their opponents, accusing them of “flip flopping” and failing to represent their constituents when the issue was consulted on in 2019.


The Tories are in attack mode over a “lack of consultation” on council support for Route E which will take it through north Beds on its way between Oxford and Cambridge.

Cllr Graeme Coombes, the Conservative leader, admitted he had supported taking the line to the north. The Conservatives support the principle of East West Rail.

He said for his ward, the most important issue is making sure that Wixams gets a station.

“It sums up the gutter level of the Liberal Democrats turning everything into a party political debate. I suggest they all grow up,” he said.

Councillors were discussing their response to a petition from Steve Arnold, of Ravensden, which had gathered nearly 1,600 signatures before Wednesday’s meeting.

Cllr Coombes said it is wrong to say Route E had unanimous support.

Other councillors said the Conservatives have taken part in votes on issues, including the local plan which included support for the railway through Bedford. Cllr Foster pointed out she had not supported the local plan.

Cllr Michael Headley (Lib Dem, Putnoe) said East West Rail will be launching another consultation within weeks and he urged residents to get involved.

He added: “Residents will ask themselves where were these councillors in 2019? Why weren’t them informing them?”

Protestors said they had been believed Route E would not be chosen because of high costs, which had changed.

Read:Further consultation called for as opposition grows to chosen East West Rail route

He said support for Route E was transparent and part of a cross party lobbying effort over 25 years.

He added that southern routes could kill off Wixams station hopes.

For Cllr Coombes Wixams station is number one priority “always, forever and first.”

“I supported route E to stand up for my ward,” he said.

But he claimed Route E would be a “Trojan Horse” to open up development sites on “large swathes” north of Bedford.

Concern was expressed by members of the public at the prospect of more than 20 freight trains using it every day.

Mr Arnold recoiled at the thought of “juggernaut” diesel trains disturbing residents.

But Cllr Ben Foley (Green, Castle) said he “cannot recognise concerns over freight trains” which already come through Bedford and cause “zero disturbance”.

Cllr Foster said the Conservatives had been presented with a fait accompli.

But Cllr Henry Vann (Lib Dem, De Parys), said he was “flabbergasted” at what he was hearing.

“The Conservatives are putting Wixams station at risk with their flip flopping over their support for Route E,” he said.

But Cllr Foster said: “Please don’t try and say we are backtracking and flip flopping, we’re not.”

Conservative councillors voted for, against and to abstain on Cllr Headley’s motion.

by David Tooley
Local Democracy Reporter

​

Made front line news on all Bedford papers today.

According to one facebook poster one of the consultations was attended by a Folkestone representative. Perhaps there is a freight plan after all.

​

 

[Tobbes]

Tories hit out at ‘political’ vote which exposed group’s division on East West Rail route controversy - Bedford Independent

Bedford Council’s Conservative leader slammed the Liberal Democrats for gutter politics over taking a recorded vote on the...

www.bedfordindependent.co.uk

Bedford Council’s Conservative leader slammed the Liberal Democrats for gutter politics over taking a recorded vote on the divisive issue of the proposed route of the East West Rail.

At a combative meeting of the council this week the Lib Dems hit back at their opponents, accusing them of “flip flopping” and failing to represent their constituents when the issue was consulted on in 2019.


The Tories are in attack mode over a “lack of consultation” on council support for Route E which will take it through north Beds on its way between Oxford and Cambridge.

Cllr Graeme Coombes, the Conservative leader, admitted he had supported taking the line to the north. The Conservatives support the principle of East West Rail.

He said for his ward, the most important issue is making sure that Wixams gets a station.

“It sums up the gutter level of the Liberal Democrats turning everything into a party political debate. I suggest they all grow up,” he said.

Councillors were discussing their response to a petition from Steve Arnold, of Ravensden, which had gathered nearly 1,600 signatures before Wednesday’s meeting.

Cllr Coombes said it is wrong to say Route E had unanimous support.

Other councillors said the Conservatives have taken part in votes on issues, including the local plan which included support for the railway through Bedford. Cllr Foster pointed out she had not supported the local plan.

Cllr Michael Headley (Lib Dem, Putnoe) said East West Rail will be launching another consultation within weeks and he urged residents to get involved.

He added: “Residents will ask themselves where were these councillors in 2019? Why weren’t them informing them?”

Protestors said they had been believed Route E would not be chosen because of high costs, which had changed.

Read:Further consultation called for as opposition grows to chosen East West Rail route

He said support for Route E was transparent and part of a cross party lobbying effort over 25 years.

He added that southern routes could kill off Wixams station hopes.

For Cllr Coombes Wixams station is number one priority “always, forever and first.”

“I supported route E to stand up for my ward,” he said.

But he claimed Route E would be a “Trojan Horse” to open up development sites on “large swathes” north of Bedford.

Concern was expressed by members of the public at the prospect of more than 20 freight trains using it every day.

Mr Arnold recoiled at the thought of “juggernaut” diesel trains disturbing residents.

But Cllr Ben Foley (Green, Castle) said he “cannot recognise concerns over freight trains” which already come through Bedford and cause “zero disturbance”.

Cllr Foster said the Conservatives had been presented with a fait accompli.

But Cllr Henry Vann (Lib Dem, De Parys), said he was “flabbergasted” at what he was hearing.

“The Conservatives are putting Wixams station at risk with their flip flopping over their support for Route E,” he said.

But Cllr Foster said: “Please don’t try and say we are backtracking and flip flopping, we’re not.”

Conservative councillors voted for, against and to abstain on Cllr Headley’s motion.

by David Tooley
Local Democracy Reporter

​

Made front line news on all Bedford papers today.

According to one facebook poster one of the consultations was attended by a Folkestone representative. Perhaps there is a freight plan after all.

​

I'm not quite sure what the outrage is on either side is? There will be another chance to input into the consultation, but the main reasons I understood Route E was chosen (serving Bedford Midland and Cambourne) haven't changed, and so I expect that the new consultation will find that if you want to serve both places, Route E remains the right answer.

All of this freight discussion seems like a ton of red herrings as I don't understand where these flows will come from.

 

[edwin_m]

As I think I posted earlier, running EWR through an interchange at Wixams would now be extremely difficult as it's being surrounded by housing. While making it an interchange with EWR might have made the station more likely, it would also have made it more expensive. Wixams now has to stand or fall as a Thameslink-only station to serve local housing.

The post in question: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...s-part-of-east-west-rail.214578/#post-5014457

 

[work-traveller]

Bletchley minus the flyover. New OLE on WCML. Piling for new portal structure in both cess's.

 

[WilliamH]

Interested thing I've noted on that petition, the northern route has the support of specifically south Cambridgeshire with no mention of north Cambridgeshire, seems a bit of NIMBYism mentioned above...
View attachment 87921
On the rest of your scheme I would imagine EWR have their reasons for why the route they have chosen is the best, "Option E" as you seem to all it shows how they considered many different options before deciding on this one.

South Cambridgeshire is a district that includes parishes to the north of Cambridge. Perhaps worth checking your facts before writing your next post. If your view is that anyone opposing a proposal from a railway company must be a NIMBY and therefore beyond the pale, then it is rather difficult to have an open debate on this don't you think?

 

[richieb1971]

Well it seems the most beneficial route in some cases ruins the most beautiful landscapes. The least beneficial route is the cheapest and the route that everyone wants is plain out of sight.

People affected by EWR don't realize that once upon a time where they live was a woodland or a field and now their house is sitting there ruining that once wonderful view. I told a whole bunch of nimbys this and surprisingly I got more support, which was kind of strange. I don't know about the Cambridge end, but on the Bedford end it seems very strange the line would go anywhere near Brickhill. I envisaged the eastern curve on the MML to be passed Oakley. It seems EWR have gotten a bit close to the local housing for comfort. At this moment in time, I foresee a huge delay in EWR east of Bedford as the political will to back track is getting stronger by the day.

 

[Tobbes]

Well it seems the most beneficial route in some cases ruins the most beautiful landscapes. The least beneficial route is the cheapest and the route that everyone wants is plain out of sight.

People affected by EWR don't realize that once upon a time where they live was a woodland or a field and now their house is sitting there ruining that once wonderful view. I told a whole bunch of nimbys this and surprisingly I got more support, which was kind of strange. I don't know about the Cambridge end, but on the Bedford end it seems very strange the line would go anywhere near Brickhill. I envisaged the eastern curve on the MML to be passed Oakley. It seems EWR have gotten a bit close to the local housing for comfort. At this moment in time, I foresee a huge delay in EWR east of Bedford as the political will to back track is getting stronger by the day.

I don't see the delay. There will be the usual public enquiry, but there is very significant support for the Ox-Cam Arc, and in particular the housing planned, which cannot be credibly delivered without EWR. It will be delivered in full on or about Route E (which annoys me but I've lost the argument about a northern entrance to Cambridge) and the only question is whether it will electrified throughout from Day 1.

 

[jfowkes]

So many of the arguments against EWR are predicated on the idea that there will be 24/7 freight, which is so obviously untrue (for any reasonable interpretation of "24/7") that I kind of assume that the opposition are simply against it in principle (pure NIMBYism) and so will use any argument, true or not, to support their case.

 

[zwk500]

So many of the arguments against EWR are predicated on the idea that there will be 24/7 freight, which is so obviously untrue (for any reasonable interpretation of "24/7") that I kind of assume that the opposition are simply against it in principle (pure NIMBYism) and so will use any argument, true or not, to support their case.

On that point, there is a Network Rail report from about 2017 that suggests up to 50 paths a day could be diverted via EWR, IF the north chord at Bletchley was built. I can understand a certain amount of trepidation from those on the route who don't understand that railways work in geological-speed timescales that this might happen rather soon.

It won't of course, but that's a difficult argument to make to people watching zoopla with a vengeance (or indeed have moved away from London for peace and quiet).

 

[Steve Harris]

Well it seems the most beneficial route in some cases ruins the most beautiful landscapes. The least beneficial route is the cheapest and the route that everyone wants is plain out of sight.

People affected by EWR don't realize that once upon a time where they live was a woodland or a field and now their house is sitting there ruining that once wonderful view. I told a whole bunch of nimbys this and surprisingly I got more support, which was kind of strange. I don't know about the Cambridge end, but on the Bedford end it seems very strange the line would go anywhere near Brickhill. I envisaged the eastern curve on the MML to be passed Oakley. It seems EWR have gotten a bit close to the local housing for comfort. At this moment in time, I foresee a huge delay in EWR east of Bedford as the political will to back track is getting stronger by the day.

One thing I can say is, Cambourne didn't even exist 25 years ago. It was just farmland. So if anyone from there says EWR will spoil the view... they should be reminded that their house has spoiled the view for someone else.

 

[The Planner]

The north chord has moved from crayons to proper engineering pens from what I hear.

 

[Steve Harris]

On that point, there is a Network Rail report from about 2017 that suggests up to 50 paths a day could be diverted via EWR, IF the north chord at Bletchley was built. I can understand a certain amount of trepidation from those on the route who don't understand that railways work in geological-speed timescales that this might happen rather soon.

It won't of course, but that's a difficult argument to make to people watching zoopla with a vengeance (or indeed have moved away from London for peace and quiet).

That reminds me of a meeting I went to once about Cambrige Airport submitting plans to build a new terminal building. 1 attendee said that they didn't want it to happen as their would be an increase in flights and they had recently moved from London and the Heathrow flight path.

It was totally lost on them when asked why did they buy a house on the flight path of another airport and said airport employed many (approx 1000) people.