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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

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davetheguard

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Thanks Bald Rick for your list which is obviously, and usefully, a lot longer than mine. But are all those projects listed actually going to happen?

As you say, Heathrow Western access is now looking doubtful, Ely seems to be bubble on & on without anything actually happening on the ground, Manchester Castlefield Corridor has been sitting on the Minister's desk waiting for approval for what seems like years, and so it goes on. Oxford & Bristol electrification are still only officially "paused", presumably because the government can't publicly admit the truth. We've already seen a small worthwhile scheme like the Metropolitan Line extension killed off after millions & millions had been spent on it, and that scheme had the contractors actually in doing the preliminary works!

As someone who remembers B.R. actively considering running a Swindon to Peterborough service via the East West Rail route way back in the 1980's, the lack of progress sometimes begins to get you down; and the politicians wonder why people don't always trust them!
 
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Bald Rick

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But are all those projects listed actually going to happen?

All these projects are spending money now. The more pertinent question is “is all the money allocated to these projects going to be spent”. That I don’t know.
 

TheBigD

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Thanks Bald Rick for your list which is obviously, and usefully, a lot longer than mine. But are all those projects listed actually going to happen?

As you say, Heathrow Western access is now looking doubtful, Ely seems to be bubble on & on without anything actually happening on the ground, Manchester Castlefield Corridor has been sitting on the Minister's desk waiting for approval for what seems like years, and so it goes on. Oxford & Bristol electrification are still only officially "paused", presumably because the government can't publicly admit the truth. We've already seen a small worthwhile scheme like the Metropolitan Line extension killed off after millions & millions had been spent on it, and that scheme had the contractors actually in doing the preliminary works!

As someone who remembers B.R. actively considering running a Swindon to Peterborough service via the East West Rail route way back in the 1980's, the lack of progress sometimes begins to get you down; and the politicians wonder why people don't always trust them!

With regard to the latter...

BR (Provincial Services?) we're planning a Peterborough to Swindon service. I haven't been able to find much on Google regarding it but there was at lesst 1 press/publicity run which was routed via Oxford/Bletchley Flyover/Bedford/Corby/Manton Junction(reverse). Not sure of the date but it would have been late 1980s/early 1990s. I seem to remember (but I'm probably wrong) that a south curve at Manton Junction was also planned.

Does anyone have any more info/links/photos of it please?
 

Class 170101

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Care to provide links to that research - because there's a lot of things passed off as fact on these boards for which there is no evidence. To actually see the evidence supporting this and not the ravings of the usual suspects would be a refreshing change.

Have a look at Passenger Focus / Transport Focus website who conducted the research some years ago now.

Excluding HS2 and EWR, there is still nearly £10bn being spent o enhancements to the English rail network in the current 5 year control period. This compares to £14bn being spent on the English Highways Network in roughly the same period. If you include HS2, EWR and Crossrail, Rail wins by a mile. Given there are a lot more roads, and a lot more people who use them, I’d say Rail is getting a pretty good deal.

Nearly £10bn? That is a lot on enhancements, but what are they? Crossrail aside -which I assume isn't included in that figure- I can't think of much: Corby electrification (but nothing else announced, yet alone a rolling programme); Barking Riverside & Northern Line extension in London (TfL projects that may or may not involve Central Government money); boosting the power supplies on the northern end of the ECML; and Werrington dive under; contributions towards a few new stations.

And now, to get back on topic, having already cut electrification, and freight capacity from East West Rail, they're looking at perhaps cutting out the long-planned route to Aylesbury as well!

I'll just link to this thread people may want to read it and the article link provided in its 1st Post from the Financial Times

The money doesn't seem all that secure now.
 
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The Ham

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Excluding HS2 and EWR, there is still nearly £10bn being spent o enhancements to the English rail network in the current 5 year control period. This compares to £14bn being spent on the English Highways Network in roughly the same period. If you include HS2, EWR and Crossrail, Rail wins by a mile. Given there are a lot more roads, and a lot more people who use them, I’d say Rail is getting a pretty good deal.

The spending on roads would most likely be spending on the strategic road network (9,800 miles) which is only about double the length of the amount of track managed by Network Rail (4,800 miles) so the comparison would be closer to £7bn vs £10bn and given that roads are generally cheaper to build* I'm not sure that the deal is quite as good as it should be. Not when we should be decarbonising and rail can do that faster and further than anything that road can offer.

As whilst per mile per person emissions from EV's compare well with the total current emissions from rail, that's still including significant (probably about half of traction energy) diesel use, rail can get lower more easily and an increase in rail use would likely also result in an increase in walking/cycling for sorry distance travel further decreasing emissions.

That's not too say that there's not a place for cars, as it's unlikely that we'd be able to do without them entirely and certainly the rail network couldn't cope with that much extra use given roads make up 80% of miles traveled, rather that investing in more roads isn't going to help reduce our emissions in the same way that rail (and other public transport) would.

* Note that there's been recent press stories about the Lower Thames Crossing costing more per mile than HS2 and that's using the unofficial £107bn cost of HS2 and official costs from Highways England which inflates the HS2 cost.
 

hwl

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Not sure about that.
There are some relatively quick useful sized wins do-able in rail in the next decade if some bi-mode are countenanced.
Road is far bigger though or actual or % reductions?
 

fishwomp

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Hi - we are getting off topic here - this thread is about progress of East-West Rail, not all the other schemes. If we could move those to another thread that would be great. Even electrification of the route is to me fairly irrelevant, that ship has sailed sadly, so let's update on on the actual boots on the ground and planning or funding progress for the Bedford to Cambridge section here! Thanks
 

hwl

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Hi - we are getting off topic here - this thread is about progress of East-West Rail, not all the other schemes. If we could move those to another thread that would be great. Even electrification of the route is to me fairly irrelevant, that ship has sailed sadly, so let's update on on the actual boots on the ground and planning or funding progress for the Bedford to Cambridge section here! Thanks
As the initial rolling stock tender is for a few years to cover till electrification that ship hasn't sailed, its departure has been delayed a bit.
 

yorkie

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Hi - we are getting off topic here - this thread is about progress of East-West Rail, not all the other schemes. If we could move those to another thread that would be great. Even electrification of the route is to me fairly irrelevant, that ship has sailed sadly, so let's update on on the actual boots on the ground and planning or funding progress for the Bedford to Cambridge section here! Thanks
Agreed.

Just a gentle reminder that if anyone wishes to discuss anything on any other subject than East-West Rail: Progress and updates, please create a new thread (if there isn't one already) in the appropriate forum section (or use an existing thread, if there is one) rather than reply in this thread please :)

If anyone spots any off topic posts, please click the report button on the first off topic post. If you can let us know of any further off topic posts in your report, that would be great. Suggestions for which forum section it belongs in, and what a suitable thread title could be, are always welcome too.

Many thanks :)
 

MikePJ

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I cycled from Cambridge to Shepreth today and saw my first anti-EWR signs, at the south edge of Harston village. They're put up by the Cambridge Approaches Action Group. They have all the hallmarks of a local "leave our pretty country village exactly how it is" campaign, and are strangely cagey about exactly who is running it - their material includes a few mentions of people's names but no named chairperson or committee. https://cambridgeapproaches.org/
 

SuperNova

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I cycled from Cambridge to Shepreth today and saw my first anti-EWR signs, at the south edge of Harston village. They're put up by the Cambridge Approaches Action Group. They have all the hallmarks of a local "leave our pretty country village exactly how it is" campaign, and are strangely cagey about exactly who is running it - their material includes a few mentions of people's names but no named chairperson or committee. https://cambridgeapproaches.org/
Always look to who they're following on socials first. My money is on this person - https://twitter.com/stephij6
 

Energy

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I cycled from Cambridge to Shepreth today and saw my first anti-EWR signs, at the south edge of Harston village. They're put up by the Cambridge Approaches Action Group. They have all the hallmarks of a local "leave our pretty country village exactly how it is" campaign, and are strangely cagey about exactly who is running it - their material includes a few mentions of people's names but no named chairperson or committee. https://cambridgeapproaches.org/
Most rail projects will have these, this one is pretty ineffective as it hasn't affected EWR. Maybe because it just asks for the 'right approach' which EWR has chosen, its just the 'right approach' for these people is far away from them.
 

ABB125

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There was an article in the Telegraph a few days ago about a farm owned and run by a charity set up/created by a former Telegraph columnist and farmer person (whose name I cannot remember)*. Apparently this sustainably managed, wildlife friendly farm (near Cambridge) is going to be destroyed by the new-build EWR section, because a southern approach to the city has been chosen. They want a northern approach.

*I believe the farm was "rescued" by donations from both the newspaper and its readers, hence the interest in what happens
 

popeter45

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Most rail projects will have these, this one is pretty ineffective as it hasn't affected EWR. Maybe because it just asks for the 'right approach' which EWR has chosen, its just the 'right approach' for these people is far away from them.
the perfect discription of what a NIMBY is
 

D365

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When was this ”farm” set up, and when did they purchase the land in question?
 

ABB125

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When was this ”farm” set up, and when did they purchase the land in question?
Might have been around 20 years ago? I'll see if I can find the article

EDIT
Here it is:IMG_20201230_121501794.jpg
Apologies, I'm not going to type out the contents, but it was set up in 1993 and has grown to around 400 acres. Robin Page was the name I couldn't remember.
 

hooverboy

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Indeed, they don't ask for EWR to be cancelled, they just want it to take the northern route, perfect example of NIMBYism.
wherever it gets built is going to upset somebody,that's the problem with endless consultations.People wonder then why stuff gets built so much over budget and so much behind schedule.
 

Class 170101

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Always look to who they're following on socials first. My money is on this person - https://twitter.com/stephij6

Having read the top couple of tweets clearly unless there is further work out of scope of EWR Co like sorting out Newmarket Tunnel and double tracking more of the Cambridge to Chippenham Jn route there will be minimal freight onto EWR eastern section as it is difficult to get to it within gauge cleared routes of which Newmarket tunnel isn't one of them. Nevermind that the single line is also occupied for most of the standard hour (good luck trying to pass a Freight at Dullingham Loop).

There was an article in the Telegraph a few days ago about a farm owned and run by a charity set up/created by a former Telegraph columnist and farmer person (whose name I cannot remember)*. Apparently this sustainably managed, wildlife friendly farm (near Cambridge) is going to be destroyed by the new-build EWR section, because a southern approach to the city has been chosen. They want a northern approach.

*I believe the farm was "rescued" by donations from both the newspaper and its readers, hence the interest in what happens

In terms of the approach to Cambridge that depends upon what you want to serve
Northern approach
Potential to serve Cambridge North, Central, South, Stansted Airport, Stations to London

Southern Approach
Potential to serve Ely, Kings Lynn, Wisbeach :E, Norwich, Ipswich, Cambridge South, Central and North.

I'd say the Southern approach has more value than a Northern one but there you are.
 

MikePJ

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I'd say the Southern approach has more value than a Northern one but there you are.

Exactly - and the analysis done by the local authority consortium (this group https://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/) agreed: it's more valuable to connect to other towns in East Anglia than to Stansted Airport and the already-congested West Anglia main line. Having done quite a lot of local campaigning myself (on other issues), I'm well aware of how many pretexts there can be for opposing a scheme. The wealthy burghers of north Oxford gave Chiltern a huge headache over the first phase of East West Rail - all sorts of legal challenges were made on the basis of wildlife and other environmental issues, when it was really all about disturbance to neighbouring properties and increased local road traffic serving the new Parkway station. I'm sure EWRCo will be very careful to have everything above board so that they look good at a public inquiry or judicial review.
 

richieb1971

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I prefer Bedford to be connected to Stansted. Its the only connection I would really want going eastwards. I suppose changing trains won't hurt.
 

mr_jrt

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I personally agree that a northern approach would be better, but it pains me greatly to have accidental nimby bedfellows.
 

21C101

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I prefer Bedford to be connected to Stansted. Its the only connection I would really want going eastwards. I suppose changing trains won't hurt.
I am disappointed that the option to extend it via a line from Luton Airport Parkway to a triangular junction at the north end of the Hertford Loop wasn't chosen.

This would have given intercity interchange on the MML and ECML and enabled services to Stansted via a restored link to Hertford East.

ECML interchange on the proposed route will be limited to outer suburban trains only and I expect it will cross the MML at Wixams or Clapham which will see i
interchanging with nothing going north of Bedford.
 

WilliamH

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I cycled from Cambridge to Shepreth today and saw my first anti-EWR signs, at the south edge of Harston village. They're put up by the Cambridge Approaches Action Group. They have all the hallmarks of a local "leave our pretty country village exactly how it is" campaign, and are strangely cagey about exactlhttps://www.change.org/p/secretary-of-state-for-transport-northern-rail-route-should-be-evaluated-equally-alongside-ewr-s-current-proposals-d7bd2f1f-7675-41de-b072-161074cfdeefy who is running it - their material includes a few mentions of people's names but no named chairperson or committee. https://cambridgeapproaches.org/
We are a bit more sophisticated than that @MikePJ. We are advocating a better route as proposed by CBRR. see CambedRailRoad.org. It's shorter from Cambourne to Cambridge, has less environmental impact and a better business case. It also has not been consulted on see this petition. I assume that you not against finding the best route and proper public consultation?
 

mr_jrt

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I am disappointed that the option to extend it via a line from Luton Airport Parkway to a triangular junction at the north end of the Hertford Loop wasn't chosen.

This would have given intercity interchange on the MML and ECML and enabled services to Stansted via a restored link to Hertford East.

ECML interchange on the proposed route will be limited to outer suburban trains only and I expect it will cross the MML at Wixams or Clapham which will see i
interchanging with nothing going north of Bedford.
TBH, I saw the potential in that link as very useful as well, though I suspect it would be better off as the link between the Hertford Loop and a reinstated link from Luton to Leighton Buzzard (yes, I think the busway is a waste) rather than a dogleg diversion using EWR to avoid the busway and performance pollution from running along the MML. Having two routes would also have diluted the traffic for both though, so I guess it could only be one for the foreseeable, and the Marston Vale line still exists (and doesn't have a busway on it) so was always going to be preferable, and that runs to Bedford.

Surely any EWR mainline interchange will be at Bedford Midland, which is the whole point of serving it? Rebuild the fast lines with an island platform, extend 1a through the station building as planned, and then you have the required 6-platform interchange station. Depending on the post HS2-future we end up with, either more mainline services serve Bedford proper, or it becomes a set down south/pick up north stop.
 

Energy

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It also has not been consulted on see this petition.
Interested thing I've noted on that petition, the northern route has the support of specifically south Cambridgeshire with no mention of north Cambridgeshire, seems a bit of NIMBYism mentioned above...
1609374412482.png
On the rest of your scheme I would imagine EWR have their reasons for why the route they have chosen is the best, "Option E" as you seem to all it shows how they considered many different options before deciding on this one.
 

ashkeba

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CBRR seem in denial about the desire to serve both Cambridge City and South and run through to Ipswich or Norwich without reversing.
 
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