ECML Disruption 08/08/22 - Hay on the line at Biggleswade

[Ex-controller]

And, thank goodness, that the Cambridge stoppers have half an hour turnrounds at both Kings Cross and Cambridge allowing the service a fair chance of holding up in times of grief.

I feel sorry for the people in control in a situation like last night trying to match drivers' route and traction knowledge with the need to restore some semblance of a service.

Two questions about who signs what and where - do Horsham drivers sign into Kings Cross? and if Hitchin drivers don't sign 700s, what do they sign?

It’s very frustrating, as you are sitting there knowing how this lack of forward planning increases the impact of disruption because various drivers don’t have appropriate diversionary routes, or can’t be stepped back or up onto different stock. However, there tends to be minimal interest from outside operational roles and grades to resolve these issues. Do the minimum to cover the basic service tends to be the priority, resilience is an after thought (and that’s generous).

The point of building up resilient diagrams and rosters is not about when everything functions well, it’s for the 5-10% of the time where things go wrong. Deciding that things only go wrong 5-10% of the time so it’s not worth the time or money to build in resilience is in effect making a control office work with one hand behind its back. Not to worry though, they can always be blamed for not taking x, y or Z decision after the event. Handy that, because it completely masks the real reason why disruption can’t get contained in the first place.

I genuinely don't believe the change from Peterborough - King's Cross to Peterborough - Horsham should have made that much difference.
From an insider's POV (by that I mean an employee, rather than a passenger), I think the two factors that lead to all-day disruption are the idiotic decision to section off the depots, restricting the routes and stock the drivers work; and the other problem is Three Bridges Control.
They have zero grasp of the network or the stations, but their biggest issue is they seem to have learnt nothing since they started four years ago. They're arrogant and unhelpful.
The worst thing is, control don't care about passengers. They're an inconvenience. Having worked in customer service for many years, I've never seen such disregard for the people who pay to use the service.

Fix those two problems and I think the Peterborough - Horsham would be much more reliable. It would also be an idea to run a third train per hour, but that's another story.

Control likely have about ten plates to spin at the same time. They can’t always decide not to cancel or alter services because a customer service employee based at one station might not like it. You ultimately can’t see what they see, and until you’re in their position you simply won’t. They’ve far bigger issues to deal with. That’s hardly an ideal scenario, and I get the frustration of someone in your position, but it’s always the same, in every part of the country.

 

[DarloRich]

there is a joke about Worzel Gummage here bit it is in poor taste in relation to our driver posters so I wont make it.

 

[Fred26]

It’s very frustrating, as you are sitting there knowing how this lack of forward planning increases the impact of disruption because various drivers don’t have appropriate diversionary routes, or can’t be stepped back or up onto different stock. However, there tends to be minimal interest from outside operational roles and grades to resolve these issues. Do the minimum to cover the basic service tends to be the priority, resilience is an after thought (and that’s generous).

The point of building up resilient diagrams and rosters is not about when everything functions well, it’s for the 5-10% of the time where things go wrong. Deciding that things only go wrong 5-10% of the time so it’s not worth the time or money to build in resilience is in effect making a control office work with one hand behind its back. Not to worry though, they can always be blamed for not taking x, y or Z decision after the event. Handy that, because it completely masks the real reason why disruption can’t get contained in the first place.


Control likely have about ten plates to spin at the same time. They can’t always decide not to cancel or alter services because a customer service employee based at one station might not like it. You ultimately can’t see what they see, and until you’re in their position you simply won’t. They’ve far bigger issues to deal with. That’s hardly an ideal scenario, and I get the frustration of someone in your position, but it’s always the same, in every part of the country.

Yeah except it's not just me, it's staff all over the route.
FCC generally used to be able to recover the service. GTR have never managed that.

It's the kind of attitude of, 'front line staff can't possibly understand our job', that makes them arrogant and puts everyone's backs up. Individually, perhaps we don't understand their job, but together we certainly do.
It doesn't have to be like this. For starters, control could actually learn the route. Control could actually learn the limitations of the stations and the staff. But they haven't, and they don't.
A hell of a lot of problems are exacerbated by control and their unwillingness to learn.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Yes Horsham and Brighton sign into Kings Cross.

Hitchin sign 717s and 387s.

Thanks for this info, whoosh. Good to know that Brighton and Horsham drivers sign Kings Cross so that they can easily divert when the Core collapses. The cynic in me not had expected that to be the case!

 

[Silver Cobra]

Still, I have just put the departure board up for my local station, and at present everything is running and near right-time. Let’s see if they can hold out to the end of the day without a shambles. Sadly that’s now the exception rather than the norm.

I know this is Great Northern rather than Thameslink, but passing through Stevenage station in the last 5 minutes I spotted that both the 1802 and 1832 to Moorgate are cancelled, meaning a gap of at least 90 minutes for services via the Hertford Loop from Stevenage after the 1732. I don't know how often gaps like this appear on the Hertford Loop services these days.

 

[BJames]

I know this is Great Northern rather than Thameslink, but passing through Stevenage station in the last 5 minutes I spotted that both the 1802 and 1832 to Moorgate are cancelled, meaning a gap of at least 90 minutes for services via the Hertford Loop from Stevenage after the 1732. I don't know how often gaps like this appear on the Hertford Loop services these days.

Seem to semi-regularly (NB personal experience) get curtailed to Hertford North rather than run all the way through (although today there is also a Hertford North starter at 18:01 cancelled throughout on top of what you mention). However it's Watton-at-Stone (and Stevenage passengers wanting intermediate Hertford Loop stations) that usually miss out.

On the topic of ECML disruption, I see that according to NRE there is again disruption due to a small fire next to the railway.

 

[bramling]

On the topic of ECML disruption, I see that according to NRE there is again disruption due to a small fire next to the railway.

Indeed. Peterborough-Horsham is up the wall - *again*.

 

[800001]

Seem to semi-regularly (NB personal experience) get curtailed to Hertford North rather than run all the way through (although today there is also a Hertford North starter at 18:01 cancelled throughout on top of what you mention). However it's Watton-at-Stone (and Stevenage passengers wanting intermediate Hertford Loop stations) that usually miss out.

On the topic of ECML disruption, I see that according to NRE there is again disruption due to a small fire next to the railway.

Fire extinguished and all lines reopened.
OHL was turned off to allow fire service to deal with fire.

 

[Magdalen Road]

And this morning I'm sitting around at Ely again as my train has been cancelled due to a 'points failure'. So now I'll be late for work two days running. Wonderful.

My train got cancelled at Cambridge due to no driver (Kings Lynn to King's Cross). I overheard staff on the platform saying the driver had been redeployed to the King's Lynn northbound service.
So late for work *again*. Then of course next week will be fun as well.

 

[Silver Cobra]

On the topic of ECML disruption, I see that according to NRE there is again disruption due to a small fire next to the railway.

I guess I should count myself lucky that I managed to get back to Arlesey before services started falling apart this afternoon.

 

[MikeWM]

Sitting at Cambridge North waiting for a GN train that is apparently waiting for a driver ('due to service disruption') at Cambridge. Delay should only be 10 minutes apparently (let's see) but that's 4/4 trains so far this week that have had some problem or other.

Edit : well, fair enough I suppose, it was 'only' 9 minutes late, best of the 4 so far...

 

[philjo]

1639 Kings Cross to Kings Lynn left about 15 minutes late due to a unit failure requiring a unit swap from Hornsey. So this probably contributed to congestion at Cambridge.

 

[Magdalia]

Peterborough drivers do still sign Hitchin to Cambridge, and have booked work.

Thanks for this, and the rest of the list.

Before 2018, all GN depots signed all traction, and all routes except Cambridge and King's Lynn didn't sign Hitchin to Peterborough and they were the only ones to sign Cambridge to Kings Lynn.

Indeed, including Kings Lynn having a turn to Moorgate.

Yes Horsham and Brighton sign into Kings Cross.

It does seem crazy that Horsham do not sign Letchworth, or the Hitchin reversing move.

the other problem is Three Bridges Control.
They have zero grasp of the network or the stations, but their biggest issue is they seem to have learnt nothing since they started four years ago.

As a customer, that's my impression too.

 

[bramling]

It does seem crazy that Horsham do not sign Letchworth, or the Hitchin reversing move.

So presumably what's happening is if there is a blockage on the Peterborough route, any Horsham/Peterborough services with a Horsham driver are going to be a problem, which seems to be what has happened recently.

 

[Ex-controller]

Yeah except it's not just me, it's staff all over the route.
FCC generally used to be able to recover the service. GTR have never managed that.

It's the kind of attitude of, 'front line staff can't possibly understand our job', that makes them arrogant and puts everyone's backs up. Individually, perhaps we don't understand their job, but together we certainly do.
It doesn't have to be like this. For starters, control could actually learn the route. Control could actually learn the limitations of the stations and the staff. But they haven't, and they don't.
A hell of a lot of problems are exacerbated by control and their unwillingness to learn.

Control staff work within restrictions like everyone else does. I can’t speak for GTR as I’ve never worked there but I’m sure they have a decent understanding of locations throughout the route. Where there are gaps then that is down to training that should be provided by their employer, just like any other job role.

As for ‘front line staff couldn’t possibly understand our job’ - I’m sure they could if given the opportunity to visit a control office and really see it in action during times if disruption. I can guarantee it would be an eye opener. Ultimately the control can see issues and limiting factors that you cannot see on the ground, which result in the type of decision making that might not make immediate sense. Sometimes they get it wrong, like everyone else does, but in a situation like that it’s a fast paced environment with new information coming at you every minute sometimes.

I get that it’s not just you, it’s not just that operator and not just that region either. Where I worked in a control office the traincrew, station staff etc all believed that control ‘didn’t have a clue’. It’s the same everywhere.

Add in ever more convoluted traincrew diagramming in order to squeeze more out of people and it becomes much harder to avoid the sort of ‘cut and run’ service alterations that must cause so much frustration for staff on the ground. But when multiple drivers must get Personal Needs Breaks, or other drivers are out of position meaning a train will end up stuck on the main line without relief, these issues end up taking priority.

 

[Fred26]

Control staff work within restrictions like everyone else does. I can’t speak for GTR as I’ve never worked there but I’m sure they have a decent understanding of locations throughout the route. Where there are gaps then that is down to training that should be provided by their employer, just like any other job role.

As for ‘front line staff couldn’t possibly understand our job’ - I’m sure they could if given the opportunity to visit a control office and really see it in action during times if disruption. I can guarantee it would be an eye opener. Ultimately the control can see issues and limiting factors that you cannot see on the ground, which result in the type of decision making that might not make immediate sense. Sometimes they get it wrong, like everyone else does, but in a situation like that it’s a fast paced environment with new information coming at you every minute sometimes.

I get that it’s not just you, it’s not just that operator and not just that region either. Where I worked in a control office the traincrew, station staff etc all believed that control ‘didn’t have a clue’. It’s the same everywhere.

Add in ever more convoluted traincrew diagramming in order to squeeze more out of people and it becomes much harder to avoid the sort of ‘cut and run’ service alterations that must cause so much frustration for staff on the ground. But when multiple drivers must get Personal Needs Breaks, or other drivers are out of position meaning a train will end up stuck on the main line without relief, these issues end up taking priority.

On GN everybody says it. I've been around long enough, and under multiple 'controls', to know that it's worse than it ever has been. Even people who previously would have said little or nothing negative about control are speaking up now. To be fair, it's not like it's just fallen apart - they've been poor since the start.

There's a lot of transparency between front line and control nowadays. There's little they can keep from us given the amount of apps and websites at our disposal - not that they don't try.
Most front line staff appreciate the control room is stressful and most wouldn't want to do it, but that doesn't mean we just shrug and say oh well, that's life. It needn't be.

 

[grumblingalong]

Thanks for this, and the rest of the list.


Indeed, including Kings Lynn having a turn to Moorgate.

It does seem crazy that Horsham do not sign Letchworth, or the Hitchin reversing move.

As a customer, that's my impression too.

Yep, second the comment about control. As an industry insider, it's clear to see when decisions are being made for the convenience of the railway rather than with thought to the passengers. Huge service gaps left with all the services running each side is a frequent example, no juggling of the crews to limit the times between services. I'd be perfectly happy to go back to Peterborough-KGX if it would make things more reliable.

My main "want" however would be an hourly semi-fast pair of 387s into KGX to supplement the 700s, that would make a huge difference to my quality of life. Can't see it happening with the government holding on to the purse strings though.

 

[MikeWM]

Cambridge to Ely has now been totally stopped *again*, this time apparently due to OHLE issues. That's after the mysterious 'heat-related' speed restrictions through Ely this morning, and all the other issues earlier in the week I moaned about in posts above.

Fortunately I'm working from home today; the number of issues we're now getting on this simple bit of railway is getting quite bizarre. By contrast, back when I was commuting on this route 5 days a week, I never got to the office more than 30 minutes late in the whole 3 years 2017-2019. (admittedly that was probably a extreme run of good luck, but still...)

 

[LAX54]

Cambridge to Ely has now been totally stopped *again*, this time apparently due to OHLE issues. That's after the mysterious 'heat-related' speed restrictions through Ely this morning, and all the other issues earlier in the week I moaned about in posts above.

Fortunately I'm working from home today; the number of issues we're now getting on this simple bit of railway is getting quite bizarre. By contrast, back when I was commuting on this route 5 days a week, I never got to the office more than 30 minutes late in the whole 3 years 2017-2019. (admittedly that was probably a extreme run of good luck, but still...)

1T39 has pan damage (both pans it seems)

 

[Magdalen Road]

Cambridge to Ely has now been totally stopped *again*, this time apparently due to OHLE issues. That's after the mysterious 'heat-related' speed restrictions through Ely this morning, and all the other issues earlier in the week I moaned about in posts above.

Fortunately I'm working from home today; the number of issues we're now getting on this simple bit of railway is getting quite bizarre. By contrast, back when I was commuting on this route 5 days a week, I never got to the office more than 30 minutes late in the whole 3 years 2017-2019. (admittedly that was probably a extreme run of good luck, but still...)

Unfortunately I wasn't. Luckily despite a garbled announcement, just as a train came in, I twigged where the one replacement coach was, legged it down the road (not outside the station as per said announcement) and managed to get on the first one. It left a massive queue on station road.
After the extra random stops between London and Cambridge (I don't think anyone got on) we were already late.
I beginning to consider a career change as the stress of not knowing whether or when my commute will be successful or late is really getting to me.

 

[BJames]

The ECML does seem to have been suffering recently - again:

Lines have now reopened following a points failure at Hitchin. However, whilst service recovers, trains running between London Kings Cross and Peterborough / Cambridge may still be delayed by 60 minutes or revised.

Major disruption is expected until 21:00.

as well as earlier problems between Peterborough and Grantham.

Of course, am fully aware it is not always the fault of TOCs/NR - especially with the likes of fire - but does seem to have been a particularly unreliable few days.

 

[MikeWM]

The ECML does seem to have been suffering recently - again:

as well as earlier problems between Peterborough and Grantham.

Plus Ely appears to have had various ongoing issues all day - which have pretty much been going on all week actually. Currently down as the highly descriptive 'A number of incidents at Ely means all lines are disrupted'. The expected time for the end of this disruption, whatever it is, has been pushed back two hours every two hours since this morning.

It's been the worst week I've ever seen for Cambridge-Ely services.

And as per my post #19 above, GN are once again only going to run Peterborough-Stevenage 'shuttles' tomorrow, 'connecting' into extra stops on the Cambridge fasts. For the third week running.

---

...20 minutes late for work yesterday, stuck behind some other train with some issue or other that couldn't move.

Today going to be at least 30 late, some issue with the track near Littleport, resulting in my train being cancelled yet again.

That's 4 days out of 5 I'm significantly late for work. That'd be more than enough to get me fired in many jobs. And of course I can't go on Thursday at all due to strikes. And I didn't even try to travel last Thursday when the entire service collapsed, or last Thursday or Friday when there were mysterious 'heat restrictions' despite it being early in the morning.

I'm really getting fed up now. Is the entire country falling apart, or just the railway?

It's no wonder so many people have decided they rather like working from home!