Eden Valley Railway - Appleby?

[Marmaduke]

Had a wander around Appleby and the station on the S&C.

Came across another former station which Im led to believe was called Appleby East which looks as though its a scrap yard now, but with tracks in it.

I enquired to one of the local residents who informed me that the railway goes off towards Kirby Stephen.

Presumably this is the same line that goes through Warcop, the EVR?

Question is does the EVR have any plans to venture into Appleby?

 

[John Webb]

See Eden Valley Railway website for information on their intentions.

 

[Mogulb]

Had a wander around Appleby and the station on the S&C.

Came across another former station which Im led to believe was called Appleby East which looks as though its a scrap yard now, but with tracks in it.

I enquired to one of the local residents who informed me that the railway goes off towards Kirby Stephen.

Presumably this is the same line that goes through Warcop, the EVR?

Question is does the EVR have any plans to venture into Appleby?

Eden Valley Railway would love to get to Appleby, but although they have a TWO for the line,the alleged owners of the Trackbed , SUSTRANS, will only let them go a couple of miles from Warcop,the remainder of the line to Appleby is derelict and has had no maintenance since the last train ran.

 

[Wearhead]

Appleby East is Sustrans “dirty little secret”. The land is allegedly highly contaminated with heavy metals, oils etc after many years use as a vehicle scrap yard. The beautiful station building and goods yard were leased out to the current users when the whole line was gifted to Sustrans (as Railway Paths Ltd) in the 1990s for conversion to a “green” cycling route after the MOD ceased using it for military transport to the local firing ranges at Warcop.

However, despite repeated attempts, the Eden Valley Railway (which owns Warcop station and about two miles of track) have been unable to reach agreement with Sustrans as to its future use. The track can never be converted to a cycle route, as the single line is mostly on an embankment with no room for both railway and cycle lane, and meanwhile the rails from Appleby (with a link to the S & C) gradually rot away in situ . . .

Rumour has it that some years ago Sustrans offered Appleby East to EVR provided they paid for the decontamination of the station site. Ha, not a chance, it could cost millions!

So the plucky folk at EVR continue to run summer services along their two miles of track (under normal circumstances, not in 2020), Sustrans will at some future time be required to sort out the contamination at Appleby, and meanwhile a great opportunity to develop this tourist line along the Eden Valley to Kirkby Stephen (where the Stainmore Railway have a base at Kirkby Stephen East) is being squandered.

Surely, one of the saddest examples of corporate intransigence by a supposedly “green” organisation.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I have been on the EVR a few times and last year went on the Stainmore railway which was lovely, they people there were very welcoming and it would be great if these two lines could be reunited, even if only to Warcop at the moment.

 

[geoffk]

Appleby East is Sustrans “dirty little secret”. The land is allegedly highly contaminated with heavy metals, oils etc after many years use as a vehicle scrap yard. The beautiful station building and goods yard were leased out to the current users when the whole line was gifted to Sustrans (as Railway Paths Ltd) in the 1990s for conversion to a “green” cycling route after the MOD ceased using it for military transport to the local firing ranges at Warcop.

However, despite repeated attempts, the Eden Valley Railway (which owns Warcop station and about two miles of track) have been unable to reach agreement with Sustrans as to its future use. The track can never be converted to a cycle route, as the single line is mostly on an embankment with no room for both railway and cycle lane, and meanwhile the rails from Appleby (with a link to the S & C) gradually rot away in situ . . .

Rumour has it that some years ago Sustrans offered Appleby East to EVR provided they paid for the decontamination of the station site. Ha, not a chance, it could cost millions!

So the plucky folk at EVR continue to run summer services along their two miles of track (under normal circumstances, not in 2020), Sustrans will at some future time be required to sort out the contamination at Appleby, and meanwhile a great opportunity to develop this tourist line along the Eden Valley to Kirkby Stephen (where the Stainmore Railway have a base at Kirkby Stephen East) is being squandered.

Surely, one of the saddest examples of corporate intransigence by a supposedly “green” organisation.

Not surprised to read this as my job with Worcestershire County Council up to 2003 included dealing with Sustrans as part of a study of the Honeybourne line (which had just opened to Cheltenham Racecourse when I left).

 

[The Chimaera]

Its worth researching Sustrans in relation to the Warcop branch from Appleby, there's some interesting things on the net, suggestion's were that they shouldn't of ever got their hands on the branch as it was still in theory an operational line not a disused trackbed. The plot thickens when you find out that the nicely paid executives of Sustrans were mostly ex high management types made redundant at the end of BR.
Of course everything written on the internet isn't necessarily true but the lack of progress made with them by the EVR could well speak volumes?

 

[Marmaduke]

Its worth researching Sustrans in relation to the Warcop branch from Appleby, there's some interesting things on the net, suggestion's were that they shouldn't of ever got their hands on the branch as it was still in theory an operational line not a disused trackbed. The plot thickens when you find out that the nicely paid executives of Sustrans were mostly ex high management types made redundant at the end of BR.
Of course everything written on the internet isn't necessarily true but the lack of progress made with them by the EVR could well speak volumes?

I would agree with you completely.

When is Sustrans \ Railway Paths or whatever you call them this week going to be realistic about this "land bank" they own? How they managed to acquire this in the first place is extremely questionable?

I think the Eden Valley Railway situation is a good case in point, which is mirrored all over the UK.

Having researched EVR's situation, this is a real interesting possibility.

• It would appear that they own just over 2 miles of track & bed from south or Warcop through to a location about 2.5 miles from Appleby East Station.
• Sustrans \ Railway Paths "own" the last 2.5 miles of track bed from this location to beyond Appleby East
• EVR owns the railway line sat on the track bed to beyond Appleby East
• There are no foot paths along or off from this length of line, so in other words of no use whatsoever to Sustrans \ Railway Paths for future development

Im quite sure having visited the nearby market town of Appleby several times, that the good people there, particularly the businesses and shops would love to see the EVR, a Heritage Railway connect with the town?

This would undoubtedly enhance business, bring opportunities AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO ALIGHT THE Settle & Carlisle line to visit the EVR - Winners all round???

SO Come on SUSTRANS \ Railway Paths Management - If you read this site - Let the EVR loose to serve the community and tourism industry as the benefits will be untold!!

 

[ThetrackMaster]

I would agree with you completely.

When is Sustrans \ Railway Paths or whatever you call them this week going to be realistic about this "land bank" they own? How they managed to acquire this in the first place is extremely questionable?

I think the Eden Valley Railway situation is a good case in point, which is mirrored all over the UK.

Having researched EVR's situation, this is a real interesting possibility.

• It would appear that they own just over 2 miles of track & bed from south or Warcop through to a location about 2.5 miles from Appleby East Station.
• Sustrans \ Railway Paths "own" the last 2.5 miles of track bed from this location to beyond Appleby East
• EVR owns the railway line sat on the track bed to beyond Appleby East
• There are no foot paths along or off from this length of line, so in other words of no use whatsoever to Sustrans \ Railway Paths for future development

Im quite sure having visited the nearby market town of Appleby several times, that the good people there, particularly the businesses and shops would love to see the EVR, a Heritage Railway connect with the town?

This would undoubtedly enhance business, bring opportunities AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO ALIGHT THE Settle & Carlisle line to visit the EVR - Winners all round???

SO Come on SUSTRANS \ Railway Paths Management - If you read this site - Let the EVR loose to serve the community and tourism industry as the benefits will be untold!!

Alleluhyah!!!! Someone talking a bit of sense!! About time too - when is this Government quango, because that's what they are, who've "inherited" countless miles of track bed and are still sitting on them, start planning to give back to worthwhile causes like the EVR?

I agree with Marmaduke - I have visited Appleby and the surrounding villages and if ever a place needed a lift, it this wonderful little market town on the edge of the lakes.

Please SUSTRANS \ Railway Paths - Take a good look at this one, as the EVR are well located to make a difference to the area, including drawing tourists in.

Warcop is their base. Granted presently nice location, but not a lot going on, but if this was enhanced as the Operating Base \ Workshops to visit along with other activities, Appleby East would be the place to go to or join from Appleby S&C?

I would reckon the two stations are only about 100mts apart?

And what a nice size railway this would make, of probably circa 6 miles - An optimum size to manage & operate - None of this big stuff.

Being a steam buff, it would attract and be very useful for small industrial tank engines, rather than your big ones. I'm sure there's a few owners out there that would jump at the chance to have their locos based there to stretch their legs?

I look forward to the day - How can we best lobby Sustrans \ Railway Paths on this one as it seems like a good one to pursue??

 

[Marmaduke]

Alleluhyah!!!! Someone talking a bit of sense!! About time too - when is this Government quango, because that's what they are, who've "inherited" countless miles of track bed and are still sitting on them, start planning to give back to worthwhile causes like the EVR?

I agree with Marmaduke - I have visited Appleby and the surrounding villages and if ever a place needed a lift, it this wonderful little market town on the edge of the lakes.

Please SUSTRANS \ Railway Paths - Take a good look at this one, as the EVR are well located to make a difference to the area, including drawing tourists in.

Warcop is their base. Granted presently nice location, but not a lot going on, but if this was enhanced as the Operating Base \ Workshops to visit along with other activities, Appleby East would be the place to go to or join from Appleby S&C?

I would reckon the two stations are only about 100mts apart?

And what a nice size railway this would make, of probably circa 6 miles - An optimum size to manage & operate - None of this big stuff.

Being a steam buff, it would attract and be very useful for small industrial tank engines, rather than your big ones. I'm sure there's a few owners out there that would jump at the chance to have their locos based there to stretch their legs?

I look forward to the day - How can we best lobby Sustrans \ Railway Paths on this one as it seems like a good one to pursue??

I suppose one thing we are missing here is what the "powers that be" in charge of the Eden Valley Railway think?

Do they even want to get to Appleby???

Whats the set up at the EVR?

I must admit apart from the twice I have visited at Warcop, the guys Ive met are friendly and passionate, they seem focused and consolidated at Warcop?

Anyone from EVR reading this thread, could they advise whats happening please as with a bit of positive publicity on this posting and other mediums, you never know it could make a difference?

 

[TheBeard]

Sustrans would perhaps like the EVR to go away so they can open the route as a cycle trail, if there isn't room for both of them. Peculiar? Nothing seems peculiar anymore when it comes to governments. Another route that survives intact nearby is the Tebay to Ingleton, it has an oil or gas pipeline so isnt available, but would make a better, "Edge of the Lakes/Dales Cycle route

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I think the EVR do want to get to Appleby and in the other direction too.

 

[Ploughman]

I believe Kirkby Stephen may also come into the mix.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

Sustrans would perhaps like the EVR to go away so they can open the route as a cycle trail, if there isn't room for both of them. Peculiar? Nothing seems peculiar anymore when it comes to governments. Another route that survives intact nearby is the Tebay to Ingleton, it has an oil or gas pipeline so isnt available, but would make a better, "Edge of the Lakes/Dales Cycle route

I think youre right - looking at the OS Map for the stretch of the EVR in Sustrans hands, there isnt even a connecting or crossing of a foot path or bridleway and given that the whole point of track beds being made into walkways, is that it either forms a complete end to end walkway or is a link to foot paths of road ways.

In this instance it would appear neither is apparent so the whole issue of ownership and future use by Sustrans is highly questionable?

I say again to Sustrans or Railway paths or whoever they are this week - Take some positive action in the area or areas in the UK where opportunities lay to promote use, in this instance a worthwhile extension to the EVR which is a win-win for the local economy and the railway.

I believe Kirkby Stephen may also come into the mix.

Yes but I believe the priority of the EVR is to get to Appleby East first. I think as with all these things, of the two routes, Appleby East is very much doable, whereas KS, theres a decent size bridge missing.

The PWAY / Track is already in situ to Appleby East, however thats not to say there isnt work to do such as removing vegetation, drainage, sleeper and track replacement, but there is a line!!

Id like to see this small line extend to Appleby because of the opportunities. The railway would be of optimum length to manage both operationally and financially at circa 6/7 miles.

I also think given the very low gradients between Warcop & Appleby East, coupled with the relatively short length, it would be a really attractive railway for Industrial Tank owners to bring their steeds and use them.

The added draw as well as to Appleby Town is that visitors transiting the S&C would as likely get off, visit the EVR and dare we say it spend money in the local economy?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I believe Kirkby Stephen may also come into the mix.

Yes, that is correct, there is a friendly and enthusiastic team at Kirkby Stephen with that aim in mind.

 

[paul1609]

The problem is that the standards now set out for heritage passenger operations mean that you just can't take over an old disused br or mod freight line, clear off the scrub and open to passengers. If the line has been out of use for anytime you are looking at a serious financial bill. I would say a minimum of £1 million per mile.
This is really where the West Somerset has come a cropper, they have used their ex br infrastructure to the point where it is literally worn out.
I'm not sure that organisations like the EVR can fund the necessary works without external finance.

 

[Pinza-C55]

I walked from Appleby to Kirkby Stephen in 1976 when the track was still in situ, disused from Warcop to Kirkby Stephen. I also volunteered on the EVR refurbishing the signalbox for a year and a half.
It's regrettable that they are being prevented from using the line to Appleby but any talk of extending beyond Appleby or south of Warcop is extremely fanciful. The course of the line has been totally severed just beyond the Appleby headshunt by the A66 and south of Warcop the Musgrave Viaduct has been completely removed, The viaduct could be rebuilt but the cost would be extraordinary, and I don't know whether relations have improved between the EVR and the KSE group but in 2004 they weren't friendly.

This was Appleby East station as seen by me on 23.9.78.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Nice photo above. When I visited last year the EVR and the smaller operation at Kirkby Stephen, the friendly and enthusiastic people that I saw in both locations were hoping that one day they could get to Appleby and then all the way to Kirkby Stephen, so maybe things have improved between the two railways?

 

[Pinza-C55]

Nice photo above. When I visited last year the EVR and the smaller operation at Kirkby Stephen, the friendly and enthusiastic people that I saw in both locations were hoping that one day they could get to Appleby and then all the way to Kirkby Stephen, so maybe things have improved between the two railways?

It probably has improved, at least I hope so.
I believe one problem with Appleby East is that the yard was used as a scrapyard for many years and would need to be decontaminated at vast cost to be used again.

 

[ThetrackMaster]

It probably has improved, at least I hope so.
I believe one problem with Appleby East is that the yard was used as a scrapyard for many years and would need to be decontaminated at vast cost to be used again.

Nothing is impossible!! Dont forget Sustrans own this section of line and the yard (Not station House) and probably as part of any transfer agreement would in someway contribute whether this is by offset of handing over the liabilities or payment?

One way or the other it would have to get done, even if the EVR didnt get there?

 

[trebor79]

I walked from Appleby to Kirkby Stephen in 1976 when the track was still in situ, disused from Warcop to Kirkby Stephen. I also volunteered on the EVR refurbishing the signalbox for a year and a half.
It's regrettable that they are being prevented from using the line to Appleby but any talk of extending beyond Appleby or south of Warcop is extremely fanciful. The course of the line has been totally severed just beyond the Appleby headshunt by the A66 and south of Warcop the Musgrave Viaduct has been completely removed.

Wasn't the original plan when the EVR was formed in the late 1990's to reinstate the route as far as a new summit at Stainmore, including the rebuilding of Deepdale and Belah viaducts? Talk about pie in the sky (although as an excitable teenager I did buy a membership ).

 

[ThetrackMaster]

Wasn't the original plan when the EVR was formed in the late 1990's to reinstate the route as far as a new summit at Stainmore, including the rebuilding of Deepdale and Belah viaducts? Talk about pie in the sky (although as an excitable teenager I did buy a membership ).

Like a lot of schemes up and down the country, theres always been magnificent optimism.....and why not if there weren't any dreams, nothing would be attempted. I cant speak for the EVR and aren't a member, but even they perhaps realise that Kirby Stephen is but a long way down the wish list.

The doable reality is however Appleby East and they should do everything in their power to get people, businesses, Councils, Tourist Boards etc on board to get this piece of line in place - Its not a massive project in scheme of things, but a real game changer as far as tourist attraction - Overall the line I guess would be 5/6 miles which is a really nice size to manage & operate.

 

[Pinza-C55]

Like a lot of schemes up and down the country, theres always been magnificent optimism.....and why not if there weren't any dreams, nothing would be attempted. I cant speak for the EVR and aren't a member, but even they perhaps realise that Kirby Stephen is but a long way down the wish list.

The doable reality is however Appleby East and they should do everything in their power to get people, businesses, Councils, Tourist Boards etc on board to get this piece of line in place - Its not a massive project in scheme of things, but a real game changer as far as tourist attraction - Overall the line I guess would be 5/6 miles which is a really nice size to manage & operate.

As I said earlier I was a volunteer there until 2003, 17 years ago. In real terms they aren't any further on than they were then and furthermore the track on the unused portion was in poor condition then and must be shot to pieces now, 30 years after it last saw a train. They could relay the track to Musgrave station which is on their side of the missing viaduct but then the station is now a private house so they couldn't use the station area. Given the current governments pronouncements about reopening railways when they were elected it would seem to make sense to try and get Boris to lean on Sustrans but I suppose he has more important things to worry about at the moment.

Wasn't the original plan when the EVR was formed in the late 1990's to reinstate the route as far as a new summit at Stainmore, including the rebuilding of Deepdale and Belah viaducts? Talk about pie in the sky (although as an excitable teenager I did buy a membership ).

Yes, there was a grand article in Steam Railway in 1996 and I bought the prospectus which included details of the ownership of the trackbed and costings for rebuilding the viaducts. It was total pie in the sky stuff.

 

[DustyBin]

I last visited the EVR maybe 7/8 years ago and I got talking to one of the volunteers regarding Appleby East and Sustrans (I wasn’t aware of the situation until that point if I’m honest). It led me to do a bit of research of my own and conclude that Sustrans is a rather unpleasant organisation. As many of you have realised, there’s no good reason for them fighting the EVR at every turn, it really needs to stop or be stopped. Nobody is benefitting from the situation apart from possibly Sustrans, and in fact the local area is losing out on what would be a great attraction.

Hopefully when I return one day I’ll be able to take the Thumper all the way to Appleby East, or maybe a CEP hauled by a pair of MLVs!

 

[ThetrackMaster]

A rail enthusiast friend of mine who lives locally near Appleby in Westmoreland has said there's a lot of strong rumours and talk that the EVR is going to be taking over the final section of track & bed to the old Appleby East Station.

Whilst I understand there is a lot of work to do and may take a few years, if true its great news for Appleby and the area.

What a great little line it will make, circa 6 miles long, long enough to manage and operate, rather than these cumbersome long lines that take loads of volunteers and vast amounts of cash to stand still.

I really do hope its on the cards and whilst the Southern diesels will be a draw, I hope that those small steam tank loco owners will think its interesting because it'd be ideal to operate a couple on given its relatively kind gradients?

Can anyone shed anymore light on this? Is it true?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

They have been trying to get near to Appleby for a while and also in the other direction to Kirkby Stephen, where there is another small railway. I think there are issues with a cycle path on some of the old track bed. I think there are some more posts about this in another thread on this forum. It certainly would be good if they could extend the lines.

 

[yorksrob]

If it did manage to get to Appleby, it would be a lot easier to visit. I suppose the bonus for them is that the line is still intact !

 

[The Bear]

This older thread which I recall reading may have some info for you:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eden-valley-railway-appleby.207320/


Unless the situation has change the old Appleby East station site & quite a lot of the trackbed is own by a quango type organisation who's aim is to create cycleways and won't let go of the site or their chunk of the branch.

 

[Marmaduke]

This older thread which I recall reading may have some info for you:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/eden-valley-railway-appleby.207320/


Unless the situation has change the old Appleby East station site & quite a lot of the trackbed is own by a quango type organisation who's aim is to create cycleways and won't let go of the site or their chunk of the branch.

Ive also heard the very strong rumours from a number of sources recently...no smoke without fire as they say!!
As I understand it, I believe its Sustrans the organisation you refer to. Could be that there's already some discussions going on?
There's no doubt about it, what a coup for the area!!
100mts maximum walking distance between Appleby Station on the S&C to Appleby East Station.
You'd get people journeying to Appleby on the train, spending money in Appleby (really lovely place!!), then jumping on the EVR and having a run to Warcop & back.
I'm sure that the powers that be in the EVR will already be ahead of the game (hope so) and grasping the opportunity.
Its a win-win all round and I think something that bit of local area needs.
I read in a recent rail mag that Appleby as far as getting off is concerned, doesn't appear as popular as it once was - This would be a game changer especially if the EVR stepped up to the plate and had a really good offering at both ends of their line.
I also agree with TRACKMASTER, the length would be an optimum size for any HR.
Good luck EVR, if true, I hope it gathers more volunteers to join and help make it all come true!!

 

[yorksrob]

There would be sparks flying off of my Dales Railcard if this came to fruition.