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Edinburgh Tram developments

dcsprior

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not quite true - they're free for Edinburgh-issued Entitlement Cards:

| If you have a Scottish National Entitlement Card (also known as a Saltire card) issued by the City of Edinburgh Council, you are entitled to free travel on the tram. The same applies to cards from any local authority indicating visual impairment. However cards issued by other local authorities are not valid on the tram.

(https://edinburghtrams.com/node/49)

Seeing as the proposed extension takes the tram into Midlothian, I wonder how that will change.

Pensioners' bus passes for the two authorities accepted within their own authority area perhaps? Or one or two stops either side of the boundary (similar to how they can be used on buses as far as Berwick/Carlisle)? Or both valid throughout?
 
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takno

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Seeing as the proposed extension takes the tram into Midlothian, I wonder how that will change.

Pensioners' bus passes for the two authorities accepted within their own authority area perhaps? Or one or two stops either side of the boundary (similar to how they can be used on buses as far as Berwick/Carlisle)? Or both valid throughout?
It doesn't go as far as midlothian
 

YorkRailFan

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The opening of a new line has delivered a massive boost to the popularity of Edinburgh’s award-winning tram network, with customer numbers more than doubling since the first tram bound for Newhaven departed the city centre.

More than seven million tram trips were recorded by the operator in the second half of 2023, compared to 3.4 million during the same period the previous year.

The extraordinary figures released this week reflect the dedication of the entire Edinburgh Trams team to ensuring residents, visitors and local businesses enjoy maximum benefit from the £207 million investment in the line.

Lea Harrison, Edinburgh Trams Managing Director, explained:

The completion of the Trams Newhaven project on time and on budget was a remarkable achievement, but the positive impact of the new route on the communities it serves has been equally impressive.
In June 2023, our ‘Cleaner, better, faster, longer’ launch campaign helped the extended services get off to a flying start, and new stops such as The Shore and Ocean Terminal are now among the busiest on the network.
We’ve also established partnerships with businesses and attractions along the route, including Royal Yacht Britannia, Port of Leith Distillery and Cruise Forth, which have also helped attract visitors while driving up customer numbers.
Overall, 9.3 million journeys were taken by tram in 2023 - a 90 per cent increase on 2022 – and records began to tumble even before the launch of services to Newhaven. In May, Edinburgh Trams recorded its highest daily patronage figures when Harry Styles took to the stage at Murrayfield Stadium, and the operator’s support for major cultural and sporting events in the city continues to help drive the expanded network’s growing popularity.

Commenting on the clear success of the new route, George Lowder, Chief Executive of Transport for Edinburgh, said:

Forming the backbone of an integrated transport network, the expanded tramway is also helping us to meet our target of becoming a Net Zero city by 2030.
Since the opening of the line, we’ve seen an increasing number of people discover the benefits of public transport and take advantage of a swift, convenient and reliable way to get around our great city for business or leisure.
While the popularity of the tram has reached new heights in 2023, further enhancements are planned in the months ahead. These include final testing of an integrated tap-on, tap-off contactless ticketing system.

Lea Harrison added:

The past year has seen the Edinburgh Trams go from strength to strength, but we’re never complacent and constantly striving to deliver an even better experience for customers while finding innovative ways to make the tram an increasingly attractive travel option.
Other key facts from the 2023 patronage figures include:

  • 9.3 million customer journeys in 2023, an increase of over 90 per cent on the 4.8 million recorded in 2022.
  • The busiest month across the network was August, when 1.2 million trips were recorded.
  • Edinburgh Airport was the busiest stop on the network.
  • The Shore was the busiest stop on the new route to Newhaven.

This extension is the epitome of "If you build it, they will come". Its great news for the Trams.
 

Bus9120UK

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This extension is the epitome of "If you build it, they will come". Its great news for the Trams.
Partially helped by revision to bus links which may have forced people to use Tram, even if it wasn't the most convenient option.
I do see the tram overcrowded all the time on the Western end of the route now.
 

YorkRailFan

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Partially helped by revision to bus links which may have forced people to use Tram, even if it wasn't the most convenient option.
I do see the tram overcrowded all the time on the Western end of the route now.
Could the revision of buses have been for this reason?
 

waverley47

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Could the revision of buses have been for this reason?

Yes, but it's not exactly a conspiracy.

Trams are more efficient at moving more people, faster. As has been pointed out, they require people to walk further at each end, however the average overall journey time for every passenger on the route decreases. This is because trams stop less, get caught up in traffic less, and their stops at peak times are quicker, as they soak up passengers through several doors at once.

So the bus route being redrawn to channel people onto trams is basically a function of efficiency, especially down busy corridors like Leith Walk. Bear in mind the council charge the same for the busses and trams, and actually lose money in operating fees versus buses.
 

YorkRailFan

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Yes, but it's not exactly a conspiracy.

Trams are more efficient at moving more people, faster. As has been pointed out, they require people to walk further at each end, however the average overall journey time for every passenger on the route decreases. This is because trams stop less, get caught up in traffic less, and their stops at peak times are quicker, as they soak up passengers through several doors at once.

So the bus route being redrawn to channel people onto trams is basically a function of efficiency, especially down busy corridors like Leith Walk. Bear in mind the council charge the same for the busses and trams, and actually lose money in operating fees versus buses.
Makes a lot of sense, trams are more efficient than buses when there is the demand.
 
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Makes a lot of sense, trams are more efficient than buses when there is the demand.
Latterly the bus company has been short of driver resource and may see less need to run parallel routes. But to be honest there isn't a huge reduction in bus provision along the western section of the tram route. Really just a significant drop in frequency of the 22 route. The 100 remains quite similar to its pre-tram capacity and another airport service has recently started along the same A8 corridor.

You tend to see something similar at introduction of new rail services. Bus demand has decreased in areas like West Lothian and the Borders.
 

takno

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Yes, but it's not exactly a conspiracy.

Trams are more efficient at moving more people, faster. As has been pointed out, they require people to walk further at each end, however the average overall journey time for every passenger on the route decreases. This is because trams stop less, get caught up in traffic less, and their stops at peak times are quicker, as they soak up passengers through several doors at once.

So the bus route being redrawn to channel people onto trams is basically a function of efficiency, especially down busy corridors like Leith Walk. Bear in mind the council charge the same for the busses and trams, and actually lose money in operating fees versus buses.
Yeah, it's been a real riot for people in Ratho station having their regular fast and direct bus replaced with a change at Edinburgh Park. It definitely isn't faster, and since they have to pay twice just to get into town it's really all downside. Normal people don't walk further and change whilst thanking their lucky souls that theoretically it could in some circumstances not be slower. They just bin it all off and drive somewhere they can park.
 

Acfb

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I think they've reorganised the buses quite well to complement the tram service TBH - particularly what they've done with the 10 and the 16. Personally if I want to travel to Leith, I will just get the 16 all the way but it's good that the tram can provide lots of extra capacity for city Centre-Leith journeys

I was always sceptical of the tram where it duplicated bus routes but it's worked out better than I thought as the tram is quicker than buses up Leith walk provided there's no issues with loading bays etc.

Yeah, it's been a real riot for people in Ratho station having their regular fast and direct bus replaced with a change at Edinburgh Park. It definitely isn't faster, and since they have to pay twice just to get into town it's really all downside. Normal people don't walk further and change whilst thanking their lucky souls that theoretically it could in some circumstances not be slower. They just bin it all off and drive somewhere they can park.
You mean Ratho, not Ratho Station.

The X18 etc serves Ratho Station.

I'm not sure there ever has been a fast bus to Ratho itself, they of course mucked about the X48, X12 etc before the Tram started no?

If Ratho must have a direct bus service I wondered if it would be possible to divert X27 and have it come out at Wilkieston but there might be reasons such as taking longer/narrow roads?
 
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waverley47

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Yeah, it's been a real riot for people in Ratho station having their regular fast and direct bus replaced with a change at Edinburgh Park. It definitely isn't faster, and since they have to pay twice just to get into town it's really all downside. Normal people don't walk further and change whilst thanking their lucky souls that theoretically it could in some circumstances not be slower. They just bin it all off and drive somewhere they can park.

We both know that route change was a decade ago now.

At 1300 or so people, Ratho is directly comparable to Whitecraigs in the east of the city, which also doesn't have a direct bus into the city centre, but is just ten minutes drive away from somewhere with a big car park and lots of direct, fast buses (Hermiston/Sheriffhall)

Ratho is a pretty affluent place, but it's very awkward unfortunately, being on a north-south road, between arterial routes.

We also both know that the 20 was broadly half-hourly until a commercial decision by McGills about two years ago, probably as a result of all of the above.
 

Acfb

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We both know that route change was a decade ago now.

At 1300 or so people, Ratho is directly comparable to Whitecraigs in the east of the city, which also doesn't have a direct bus into the city centre, but is just ten minutes drive away from somewhere with a big car park and lots of direct, fast buses (Hermiston/Sheriffhall)

Ratho is a pretty affluent place, but it's very awkward unfortunately, being on a north-south road, between arterial routes.

We also both know that the 20 was broadly half-hourly until a commercial decision by McGills about two years ago, probably as a result of all of the above.
Slight correction, some peak time and a few Saturday 44s are still extended to Whitecraig.

Personally to get to Ratho, I just get the X27/X28 to Dalmahoy and walk just over 20 minutes.
 

waverley47

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Slight correction, some peak time and a few Saturday 44s are still extended to Whitecraig.

Personally to get to Ratho, I just get the X27/X28 to Dalmahoy and walk just over 20 minutes.

Thanks for the reply, I had no idea the 44 still went that far.

Ultimately though, with any public transport network, there are winners and losers. Ratho loses out by geography, as does Whitecraig. We are fortunate to have an excellent public transport network over here though, especially when compared to the buses in Glasgow.

For what amounts to a village, twenty minutes drive from several termini with frequent, fast and regular buses directly to the city centre, I think Ratho probably does rather well in the grand scheme of things.
 

Acfb

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Thanks for the reply, I had no idea the 44 still went that far.

Ultimately though, with any public transport network, there are winners and losers. Ratho loses out by geography, as does Whitecraig. We are fortunate to have an excellent public transport network over here though, especially when compared to the buses in Glasgow.

For what amounts to a village, twenty minutes drive from several termini with frequent, fast and regular buses directly to the city centre, I think Ratho probably does rather well in the grand scheme of things.
There still appears to be a £4.50 bus and tram day ticket that Ratho residents can get on McGills website. It is also only a 10 minute drive to Ingliston Park and Ride. Not sure about weekly/monthly options.

Its also possible that one day there will be station built at Ratho Station but that's a long way off.

It's not as good bus service as Whitecraig in terms of late evening buses though which also Prentice's 111 service (no buses after 10PM) but they are still fortunate to have a bus service as it looked likely to be withdrawn completely.
 
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We also both know that the 20 was broadly half-hourly until a commercial decision by McGills about two years ago, probably as a result of all of the above.
I don't think Ratho has been served by commercial services for some time, if at all. The buses are financed by Edinburgh Council due to low demand and high operating costs. McGill's had massive problems with driver and vehicle availability so had little option but to cut back routes, including the contracted ones.

Changing between bus and tram will never be popular but it's better than nothing, and as pointed out above there's ticket integration for the few passengers who need to pay any fare at all.
 

overthewater

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Its been around 30 years since the last commercial service to Ratho: Livingston - Ratho - Edinburgh was a No37 back in 1995 and Lothian Transit/Houston travel had the contract, Then First Edinburgh somehow won it back and operate a 137. I think from 2001? Thought route was axed and 36/37 come to being with Waverly travel Edinburgh - Ratho - Wester hails.
 

CamLewWri

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A campaign group has been set up to oppose the Council's preferred tram route to Granton on the grounds of it "destroying" the popular active travel route.


We believe that trams should replace cars, rather than people walking, cycling and wheeling.

And we know the immense value the Roseburn Path already has to the people of Edinburgh.

The destruction of the Roseburn Path risks the entire path network. If we do not act now, we will lose it forever.

Thoughts?

While I support the retention of an active travel path through Roseburn that continues to allow cycling as well as walking, running and wheeling, I think that the claims of these campaigners are over-dramatic nonsense. Although some trees on either side of the corridor will probably need removed during construction, there is no way in which the proposals result in the greenspace being "destroyed". There is also no acknowledgment by them of the fact that the tram is in addition to the active travel infrastructure.

I'm frustrated because we need to be developing both active travel and public transport, one not at the expense of another yet this group seem to be classic NIMBYs set on keeping things exactly the way they are.
 

YorkRailFan

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A campaign group has been set up to oppose the Council's preferred tram route to Granton on the grounds of it "destroying" the popular active travel route.




Thoughts?

While I support the retention of an active travel path through Roseburn that continues to allow cycling as well as walking, running and wheeling, I think that the claims of these campaigners are over-dramatic nonsense. Although some trees on either side of the corridor will probably need removed during construction, there is no way in which the proposals result in the greenspace being "destroyed". There is also no acknowledgment by them of the fact that the tram is in addition to the active travel infrastructure.

I'm frustrated because we need to be developing both active travel and public transport, one not at the expense of another yet this group seem to be classic NIMBYs set on keeping things exactly the way they are.
I wonder how said campaign group would react if it were a road and not a tram. I agre with you though, the tram line will contribute to the existing walking, cycling and wheeling routes, not replace them.
 

K.o.R

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An awful lot of "the path network" is there because of the destruction of the rail network.
 

waverley47

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Honestly I could do the feasibility study for that in five minutes by just copying and pasting a a message I've written about half a dozen times on here before.

It's not feasible for anything like the money Edinburgh council have to spend, and it's not solving any problem that couldn't be solved with a few million quid and some roadworks.
 

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