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Electric scooters and the railway

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Meerkat

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Indeed, I think that's what the trials are for. Personally I see them (in speed-restricted form) as posing basically the same risk as e-bikes, and thus that the two should be covered by the same legislation, whether that be by tightening the law on e-bikes or loosening it on scooters. I can see no case for mandatory insurance or helmets etc for one and not the other.
I don’t think they are similar to e-bikes at all. More unstable with their little wheels, harder to see due to their size and lack of rear lights, much harder to predict (they seem to wander about).
certainly shouldn’t be allowed on the pavement, and dangerous on the road.
 
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TUC

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Byelaw 15 mandates you must be on foot or carried in a pram or wheelchair, so no cycling, scooting or driving.

As an e-scooter is a motor vehicle, there's a whole raft of standard vehicle and use offences which can be committed, most of them carry penalty points.

Section 34 Road Traffic Act 1988 for starters. Driving elsewhere other than a road.

I'd also imagine that the conditions of travel place limits on luggage or associated conveyance of belongings. Edit: yes, they are explicitly banned by Section 23.6 of the Conditions.
It's hard to argue that legislation written before an item was available was intended to address it
 

Stigy

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It's hard to argue that legislation written before an item was available was intended to address it
You can’t really argue with the Byelaws as they’re pretty generic.
 

Bletchleyite

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I don’t think they are similar to e-bikes at all. More unstable with their little wheels, harder to see due to their size and lack of rear lights, much harder to predict (they seem to wander about).
certainly shouldn’t be allowed on the pavement, and dangerous on the road.

They take a bit of getting used to, but they're OK to ride on the road, I've done it a few times. The hire ones all have lights front and rear, at least the ones here do. A legal requirement to sell them with lights would solve that. Indicators might also not be a bad plan.

I'd also imagine that the conditions of travel place limits on luggage or associated conveyance of belongings. Edit: yes, they are explicitly banned by Section 23.6 of the Conditions.

Motor scooters are. The railway, as I am going to point out again, does not consider them to be motor scooters, evidenced by the link to the National Rail website, which specifically states that they are not considered to be motor scooters.

What they are in terms of road traffic law isn't really relevant. Presumably you must be aware of other such discrepancies in law, e.g. that a shopping centre or railway station is considered a public place in terms of some laws, but a private place in terms of some others, e.g. photography.
 

Meerkat

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They take a bit of getting used to, but they're OK to ride on the road, I've done it a few times. The hire ones all have lights front and rear, at least the ones here do. A legal requirement to sell them with lights would solve that. Indicators might also not be a bad plan.
I can’t see how those tiny wheels can be safe on our bumpy roads and gratings.
The rear light on a scooter is too low to be much use.
How well do they brake? I am assuming that it’s quite hard to stay on with the handlebars so low???
 

bengley

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I don’t think they are similar to e-bikes at all. More unstable with their little wheels, harder to see due to their size and lack of rear lights, much harder to predict (they seem to wander about).
certainly shouldn’t be allowed on the pavement, and dangerous on the road.
They aren't unstable. I've ridden them many times and have had no issues.

They all have lights. Some users choose not to turn the lights on. The same problem exists with cars and bicycles.

I can’t see how those tiny wheels can be safe on our bumpy roads and gratings.
The rear light on a scooter is too low to be much use.
How well do they brake? I am assuming that it’s quite hard to stay on with the handlebars so low???
How about you have a go on one before you decide whether they're good or not?

The lights are perfectly visible to vehicles in rear unless the vehicle is travelling far too close
 

Re 4/4

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The hire ones here in Bristol have lights, indicators and good brakes. A lot better brakes in fact than the yobikes we used to have, where you'd often find one with one or both brakes not working.

They handle surprisingly well on manhole covers and other obstacles in the road, but whoever programmed the app clearly thought that GPS is perfectly accurate on all phones, all the time. Having to stand in the middle of a road to make it think you're in the official parking spot is one of the more dangerous parts of using them.
 

norbitonflyer

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Which then opens up a risky situation such as if the e-scooter is being ridden on the platform,
Not allowed under the bylaws. But we are confusing what is allowed under the bylaws and what is allowed under the RTA.
The RTA covers the driving of a motor vehicle (which under the definition in the RTA includes e-scooters) on the public highway or other land towhich the public has access (e.g car parks). It also defines different rules for cycles and other "carriages" (e.g horsedrawn), (whichb are, for example, not permitted on footways - the legal term for a pavement/sidewalk) and for pedestrian-propelled vehicles (e.g wheelchairs, baby carriages, wheelbarrows, shopping trolleys, wheelie suitcases - and unpowered scooters).
The railway bylaws define what you can do on railway premises and what you can do on railway trains. As I understand it, you may take cycles, scooters and the e-variants of both, onto platforms and trains, but you cannot ride them there.

(Note that cyclists have successfully defended cases on "scooting" their cycles in pedestrian areas, as they are propelled by contact between the user's foot and the ground, rather than by pedalling)
 

bengley

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Whether it's "allowed" or not - this is of no concern to the many e-scooter riders I have seen riding the platforms. Seriously, how many people actually read bylaws? People will just do whatever they want to do
Same goes for bicycles. Unfortunately some people will not be told what to do and the only thing you can do is try to educate them as to the risks
 

jon0844

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Scooters are far worse than bikes IMO, and I have even seen scooters being used to scoot up and down the inside of a train, let alone platforms.

I expect the police took more of an interest of late not just because of public opinion, but having realised they're the preferred mode of transport for drug dealers!
 

Grumpus63

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I saw a person using an electric scooter of the modern e-scooter variety to get from one end of the platform to the other at Euston Main Line last Thursday. She wasn't challenged and although one shouldn't judge by appearances I got the impression from the expression on her face that she had a mouthful ready for any remonstrance that she may have encountered. Now, although I may be grumpy I rather LIKE them but have only thus far seen them being used responsibly by non-ferals on the streets of Liverpool (as per the city council's 12-month experiment with them). As soon as I am relieved of my backpack by a passing felon riding one of these things I shall change my mind.:s
 
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They’ve admitted on several occasions in the past that they have extremely limited knowledge of law pertaining to the railway, ticketing and byelaws.

I conclude that they are either a law student, work in another legal sector (which they’re using to mask their ignorance on railway matters by throwing out the “I have a legal background” blanket), or a ”barrack room lawyer”
 

BayPaul

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An interesting discussion, but it has, for my mind, focussed too much on the legality of scooters on the railway, and not looked closely enough at the opportunity that they create for the railway.

It looks likely (to me at least) that electric scooters will fairly soon become legal on the roads, under various restrictions. (If it were me, I would classify small, electrically powered, speed limited scooters officially as bikes, allowing them to be used on the road without a license, and to use cycle paths, but not to be used on pavements, but that is by the by). Assuming this does happen, it would be good to see the railways embracing them, as they seem to be a very good fit to encourage more people to use trains. They effectively increase the 'walkable distance' of each station substantially, making it much more practical for people living say 1-2 miles away from their nearest station to use the service, especially people who might not have the energy to cycle, or the space to store a bike.

I would like to see
  • Clear rules to allow them to be carried (not used) on trains and in stations
  • Parking spaces provided alongside cycle parking
  • Rental schemes in place at major stations
  • More cycle lanes to stations
  • Advertising campaigns encouraging journeys like this.
 
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