EMR Class 153s

NoMorePacers

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Hello, just a quick question from me. Now, I know that EMR can and have used 153s to strengthen certain Nottingham-Liverpool and Nottingham-Skegness services, however, do these have specific diagrams or are they allocated to these services on an ad-hoc basis?

Thanks in advance.
 
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43055

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I know they are normally used on the Nottingham - Worksop with a 156/158 to make a 3 car and Northern have 2 units on the Barton on Humber branch. I think the rest are predominantly used around Lincolnshire now as I haven't seen them around Derby for a while. Like you say they can go up to Liverpool but that is really if the booked second 158 is not available from Nottingham.
 

warwickshire

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I know they are normally used on the Nottingham - Worksop with a 156/158 to make a 3 car and Northern have 2 units on the Barton on Humber branch. I think the rest are predominantly used around Lincolnshire now as I haven't seen them around Derby for a while. Like you say they can go up to Liverpool but that is really if the booked second 158 is not available from Nottingham.
The Barton on humberside branch since may 2020 this year has changed to two x emr 153 on the cleethorpes to Barton on humber services. The x2 153 diagramm on the Lincoln to Peterborough service also resumed on the 07th September 2020. But will end soon. 153s are paired with a 156 on the Newark to Nottinghams . But are due to be replaced with a 3 car 170 very soon. Around the 2nd November 2020. However not diagrammed but occasionally for balancing and service strengthening they do appear on Matlock to Newark services and also on the Nottingham to liverpool services. But again class 153s on those two routes ie Nottingham to liverpool and Matlock to Liverpool for haulage now is more sheer luck and being in the right place at the right time. It dosent happen that often I am afraid.
 

Prudhoe

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I know they are normally used on the Nottingham - Worksop with a 156/158 to make a 3 car and Northern have 2 units on the Barton on Humber branch. I think the rest are predominantly used around Lincolnshire now as I haven't seen them around Derby for a while. Like you say they can go up to Liverpool but that is really if the booked second 158 is not available from Nottingham.
Yesterday, Frid 23rd, 153308/156918 worked 2A62 19:17 Nottingham-Matlock, then 2A71 20:36 Matlock-Nottingham.
 

warwickshire

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Interesting post on Facebook pages stated that east Midlands railways are going to be retaining some 153s into 2021 (around 6 or 7 units).

Any more details or information on the ones being retained?.

And more importantly what diagrams they will be on?.

Or is it just for service strengthening only. At certain times?
 
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43055

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Interesting post on Facebook pages stated that east Midlands railways are going to be retaining some 153s into 2021 (around 6 or 7 units).

Any more details or information on the ones being retained?.

And more importantly what diagrams they will be on?.

Or is it just for service strengthening only. At certain times?
Unless a extension has been granted they can't be used after the end of December 2020. If some do happen to be kept then it is very likely they will be for strengthing services but I can't see where they are needed except Skegness in the summer as other units will be freed by the 170s being introduced.
 

Andy Pacer

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The pairs of 153 on the Liverpool services was originally to release a 158 onto something else as its PRM. The pair of 153s is acceptable on the Liverpool as coupled to a PRM 158 but obviously not on their own.
 

LowLevel

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They're looking to retain 5 or 6. 2 for Barton. I assume the rest until more 170s come on stream. It would be good if a few hang around for summer Skegness trains.
 
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153’s would be good for strengthening services on the Crewe to Derby route which in its time can/has seen anything from a 153 to a triple 158, 222 and HST
 

clagmonster

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They're looking to retain 5 or 6. 2 for Barton. I assume the rest until more 170s come on stream. It would be good if a few hang around for summer Skegness trains.
Echoes what we have told, but still subject to DfT sign off for the PRM dispensation. 153s are the only viable solution for Barton until TPE are in a position to train crews on 156s.

In theory, there should be 4 diagrams (2 pairs) that involve Barton as the previously 185 worked services are to be reinstated, so there will be 2 pairs out at the same time of a morning. 185s can't work in service to Barton as it would be impossible for the guard to socially distance with the local door operation at the short platforms.
 

LowLevel

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Echoes what we have told, but still subject to DfT sign off for the PRM dispensation. 153s are the only viable solution for Barton until TPE are in a position to train crews on 156s.

In theory, there should be 4 diagrams (2 pairs) that involve Barton as the previously 185 worked services are to be reinstated, so there will be 2 pairs out at the same time of a morning. 185s can't work in service to Barton as it would be impossible for the guard to socially distance with the local door operation at the short platforms.

It does go to show the difference between TOCs - we've never stopped working local door trains with 15x units :lol:
 

clagmonster

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To be honest, I didn't realise that there was anywhere on EMR that was local door only. You've taught me something there.

I suppose the differences between TOCs are down to agreements being formed quickly between company reps and the TOCs, there is no national common denominator. As far as I know, TPE guards don't actually have an agreement to do revenue on 153s, which you guys have for a while now, despite the fact they have one for 185s and presumably their other stock.
 

LowLevel

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To be honest, I didn't realise that there was anywhere on EMR that was local door only. You've taught me something there.

I suppose the differences between TOCs are down to agreements being formed quickly between company reps and the TOCs, there is no national common denominator. As far as I know, TPE guards don't actually have an agreement to do revenue on 153s, which you guys have for a while now, despite the fact they have one for 185s and presumably their other stock.

Skegness trains have some local door stations all year round but certainly in the summer are local door at many of the smaller stations with up to 6 car formations.

Same with Nottingham to Lincoln and Lincoln to Peterborough.
 

_toommm_

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To be honest, I didn't realise that there was anywhere on EMR that was local door only. You've taught me something there.

I suppose the differences between TOCs are down to agreements being formed quickly between company reps and the TOCs, there is no national common denominator. As far as I know, TPE guards don't actually have an agreement to do revenue on 153s, which you guys have for a while now, despite the fact they have one for 185s and presumably their other stock.

TPE have definitely done revenue on the Northern 153s, so I'm not sure if the agreement has changed recently or will change once EMR officially take it over.
 

clagmonster

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TPE have definitely done revenue on the Northern 153s, so I'm not sure if the agreement has changed recently or will change once EMR officially take it over.
Some guards have been doing revenue without it actually being agreed - most aren't. Obviously I haven't been out on the line or spoken to any of them for a couple of weeks but so far as I am aware it is still the status quo. I would hope that by the time EMR take over this COVID business will have gone away so things will be back to normal.
 

High Dyke

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Thanks for the gen. Every day is a school day.
First Norwich to Liverpool service is a pair of 158's, so uses local door at stops between Grantham and Nottingham.

Meanwhile, random pairs of 153's are still plying their trade on the GN/GE services to/from Peterborough. As strengthening vehicles for other services makes sense.
 

IanXC

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It does go to show the difference between TOCs - we've never stopped working local door trains with 15x units :lol:

I've heard it reported as being a case of getting the 2 central doors on the platform, guard uses one as their local door, then opens the other for passengers using the butterfly. Of course with a 185 you'd only ever be able to get one door on the platform so that wouldn't work.
 

Deafdoggie

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Makes sense to have at least one at Derby overnight so if there is another day of stock shortages tomorrow it can go out on the early Crewe service (as 153s are permitted to work alone on that line).
Are they permitted to work that line more than any other? Yesterday 153’s did Skegness whilst a 222 did Crewe
 

43055

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Are they permitted to work that line more than any other? Yesterday 153’s did Skegness whilst a 222 did Crewe
They are permitted to work alone on three routes: Derby to Crewe, Peterborough to Doncaster and Lincoln to Grimsby. Although as shown yesterday it is possible to end up on other routes if required to save cancellations. Not all routes and staff can take 222's which is why they normally end up going to Crewe but also sometimes on the Leicester to Lincoln services.
 

Qwerty133

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Are they permitted to work that line more than any other? Yesterday 153’s did Skegness whilst a 222 did Crewe
The PRM derogation for the EMR 153s allows them to work alone on Derby to Crewe (as well as Newarke to Grimsby and Doncaster to Peterborough) but only coupled to compliant units on other routes so yes they are more permitted to work on that line.
 

Deafdoggie

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They are permitted to work alone on three routes: Derby to Crewe, Peterborough to Doncaster and Lincoln to Grimsby. Although as shown yesterday it is possible to end up on other routes if required to save cancellations. Not all routes and staff can take 222's which is why they normally end up going to Crewe but also sometimes on the Leicester to Lincoln services.

The PRM derogation for the EMR 153s allows them to work alone on Derby to Crewe (as well as Newarke to Grimsby and Doncaster to Peterborough) but only coupled to compliant units on other routes so yes they are more permitted to work on that line.
Thank you for the explanations. I guess those routes were chosen as they are, relatively, short. As, in emergencies, all routes could, potentially, have a 153, I guess it means these routes are the “first choice” if possible. Or is that the DfT don’t need to be told if used on these routes.
 

43055

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Thank you for the explanations. I guess those routes were chosen as they are, relatively, short. As, in emergencies, all routes could, potentially, have a 153, I guess it means these routes are the “first choice” if possible. Or is that the DfT don’t need to be told if used on these routes.
I believe the DFT don't need to be told if a 153 is used on the three routes but they would have to be told about the trip to Skegness yesterday.
 

Pippy1505

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Thank you for the explanations. I guess those routes were chosen as they are, relatively, short. As, in emergencies, all routes could, potentially, have a 153, I guess it means these routes are the “first choice” if possible. Or is that the DfT don’t need to be told if used on these routes.
153s can be used on any routes as a last resort to avoid cancellations.

2x153s running on Skegness line today,
 
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153s can be used on any routes as a last resort to avoid cancellations.

2x153s running on Skegness line today,
This would be a good idea in northern land, use a 153 alone to avoid a cancellation. Surely a 153 or even pacer alone is still better than no train
 

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