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EMR Class 170 updates

hexagon789

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Is it true extra units are being acquired from Scotrail? I saw it on Instagram but can’t confirm whether it’s true.

I can't find anything on it after checking a few sources. Doesn't mean it isn't true of course, but nothing seems to have been posted about it.
 
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OTRail

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I know that those are the original sources, it’s just some rail news account on Instagram said further ones are to be leased from Scotrail - although knowing that account they probably got their wires crossed...
 

py_megapixel

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I can't understand why anyone imagines Southern will give up their 171s, they have nothing ordered to replace them with.
Aren't they already planned for transfer to the East Midlands?
Maybe they could take on some EMR 156s for Uckfield. (Semi-tounge-in-cheek; I know they don't have the capability to be rescued by Electrostars, I know they're two decades older than the 171s etc.etc. but surely if they're good enough for Scotland and the North they're good enough for Southern?)
 

fgwrich

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170416-420 from SR, 170421-424 from southern and 170501-517 from WMR

Thanks, Surprised to see it is (at the moment) only the former Scottish units moving from Southern up to the Midlands.

I do wonder if there is any truth in ex units moving down from ScotRail - they do seem to be rapidly pressing for further electrification and it may explain some of the odd gaps left in the fleet after units left for Northern (Eg 470/471 staying at ScotRail, 472-478 to Northern).
 

43055

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Aren't they already planned for transfer to the East Midlands?
Maybe they could take on some EMR 156s for Uckfield. (Semi-tounge-in-cheek; I know they don't have the capability to be rescued by Electrostars, I know they're two decades older than the 171s etc.etc. but surely if they're good enough for Scotland and the North they're good enough for Southern?)
If only there was a like button! Could have some 153's as well for the peaks.

My betting is that Southern won't give the 170's up and some 158's will stay alongside the 170's.
 

OTRail

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From my understanding only 12 of the 20 171s are moving to EMR - assuming the other 8 aren’t going off-lease, combined with the Uckfield branch potentially being electrified or using battery-hybrid Electrostars, Southern won’t require any additional DMUs to cover the supposed shortfall.
 

Minstral25

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If only there was a like button! Could have some 153's as well for the peaks.

My betting is that Southern won't give the 170's up and some 158's will stay alongside the 170's.

Southern would give them up when a suitable replacement is found but not before as the good people of Uckfield & Marshlink would be a bit fed up without trains.

It won't be 153s and 156s as their station idle times would be useless between East Croydon and London Bridge in the peak. Any other stock (Old or New) that fits the narrow tunnels and can get people on and off quickly would be suitable.
 

Qwerty133

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Southern would give them up when a suitable replacement is found but not before as the good people of Uckfield & Marshlink would be a bit fed up without trains.

It won't be 153s and 156s as their station idle times would be useless between East Croydon and London Bridge in the peak. Any other stock (Old or New) that fits the narrow tunnels and can get people on and off quickly would be suitable.
Sounds like the ideal solution would be to swap the 156s with Northern 150s and send them down south...
 

153375

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If only there was a like button! Could have some 153's as well for the peaks.

My betting is that Southern won't give the 170's up and some 158's will stay alongside the 170's.

As EMR are going to be short on units and quite possibly are going to have to retain some of the 158s the obvious solution would be to swap the 158s for more 170s, either from Northern, TFW or Scotrail. Take Northern for example, they have 16 170/4s and EMR have 26 158s, you could swap these giving Northern the whole 26 to compensate given that the 170s are 3cars and then both EMR and Northern would not be operating a microfleet of different units. There would be no extra staff training as both would already operate the type and would make it easier on diagramming and maintenance aswell. But we all know the railway doesn’t do this type of joined up thinking.
 

Doomotron

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My betting is that Southern won't give the 170's up and some 158's will stay alongside the 170's.
Which I think should have been the plan in the first place. Unless Southern electrify the Uckfield and Marshlink lines, the 171s will stay with Southern. There are simply no other readily-available DMUs and battery units were called off long ago for just not being a sensible choice.
Sounds like the ideal solution would be to swap the 156s with Northern 150s and send them down south...
I doubt that would be very popular.
 

Rob1969

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Can I check is it only 416/417 & 419 in EMR livery at this moment of have I missed any?
 

Spartacus

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I've heard 170417's been named at Derby today, though I don't know what it's been named.
 

Metal_gee_man

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Southern would give them up when a suitable replacement is found but not before as the good people of Uckfield & Marshlink would be a bit fed up without trains.

It won't be 153s and 156s as their station idle times would be useless between East Croydon and London Bridge in the peak. Any other stock (Old or New) that fits the narrow tunnels and can get people on and off quickly would be suitable.
Let's be facetious and suggest the only 2/3 doored diesel rolling stock, that's powerful and has decent acceleration is the class 185s from TPE, they were looking to have enough Nova 1/2/3s to replace them and a 3 car on the marshlink would be an improvement over a 2 car plus 3 x 3 car would be the correct length for the peak Uckfields

Can I also suggest Southern may not have a choice over handing them over to Abellio they could have outbid them on a lease renewal meaning they might just have to manage with some heavy Siemens diesels from up north
 

43055

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As EMR are going to be short on units and quite possibly are going to have to retain some of the 158s the obvious solution would be to swap the 158s for more 170s, either from Northern, TFW or Scotrail. Take Northern for example, they have 16 170/4s and EMR have 26 158s, you could swap these giving Northern the whole 26 to compensate given that the 170s are 3cars and then both EMR and Northern would not be operating a microfleet of different units. There would be no extra staff training as both would already operate the type and would make it easier on diagramming and maintenance aswell. But we all know the railway doesn’t do this type of joined up thinking.
Very true. Northern would be the most logical solution to do a swap but I suppose if you keep all 26 158's then it could possibly allow you to run the odd 5/6 car services between Nottingham and Liverpool.

I’ve heard the Robin Hood Line being discussed as a start for them. I’m not sure if it’s true though..
The Robin Hood is the only route I have heard at the moment. Probably because it is largely self contained and the 170 can replace a 156/8 and 153 diagram which the 153's only have until the end of the year.
 

LowLevel

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Robin Hood line from Monday subject to a unit being available. 0605/0926/1226/1526/1755/2055 Notts - Worksop and return though 02/11 only the diagram will start with the 1226 for the launch. Further diagrams from December.
 

OTRail

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I’ve heard the Robin Hood Line being discussed as a start for them. I’m not sure if it’s true though..
Yep, although it’s annoying they won’t be used on Liverpool to Norwich even though EMR are now retaining the Nottingham to Liverpool part of the route...
 

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