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EMR Class 360's

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Domh245

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Even that's only talking about "drawing up plans" as opposed to confirmation of it going ahead

Transport ministers have said Network Rail has been instructed to draw up plans upgrade the rail route as far as Market Harborough.

No official announcement or acknowledgement that they actually are electrifying to Market Harborough exists that I'm aware of. Probably won't until we get a press release about the final wires going up!
 

Supercoss

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Some interesting restrictions applied -
can only do max 75 mph North of Bedford station
Only 1 pan raised on an 8 car
only 2 pans raised on 12 car ( front and rear)
route cleared to be hauled pan down -
-

Kentish Townto St Pancras low level plat B and St Pancras low level to Belle Isle through Canal Tunnel to from ECML can pan up Belle Isle to Ferme Park .
and across non wired branch to from Bletclhey
 

59CosG95

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Some interesting restrictions applied -
can only do max 75 mph North of Bedford station
Only 1 pan raised on an 8 car
only 2 pans raised on 12 car ( front and rear)
route cleared to be hauled pan down -
-

Kentish Townto St Pancras low level plat B and St Pancras low level to Belle Isle through Canal Tunnel to from ECML can pan up Belle Isle to Ferme Park .
and across non wired branch to from Bletclhey
Is the pan spacing a route-wide requirement?
At a guess, the 75mph speed restriction must be a traction power issue.
 

Killingworth

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Even that's only talking about "drawing up plans" as opposed to confirmation of it going ahead



No official announcement or acknowledgement that they actually are electrifying to Market Harborough exists that I'm aware of. Probably won't until we get a press release about the final wires going up!
Curiously no official announcement to be seen but it's very well known to the Leicestershire press, confirmed here in a more recent report on 14th September speaking of electrification to Market Harborough as a fact - as it does in other reports around that date; https://www.business-live.co.uk/regional-development/network-rail-wants-finally-electrify-18916958
 

bramling

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If replacement of 22x's by Desiros is an upgrade, Avanti have missed a trick!
They could replace the 221s on all-wired journeys with the redundant 350/2s from WMT (after a change to 2+2 seats, of course).
And the 350/2s are even better than the 360s - they're through gangwayed!
:lol: :lol:

The 222s were always a little over-specified for Corby. It’s the equivalent of London to Northampton, which is of course served by Desiros, and London to Huntingdon, which is also served by Desiros for the most part.
 

OTRail

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The Market Harborough extension is to connect to a power supply in the area apparently, but tbh if they’re going to electrify MH they may as well extend to Leicester and beyond...
 
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D365

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The Market Harborough extention is to connect to a power supply in the area apparently, but tbh if they’re going to electrify MH they may as well extend to Leicester and beyond...
That might be the idea. Electrification by stealth.
 

43096

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Even though traction power cannot be passed through a coupler, hotel power can.
Really? Can you give us an example where that’s the case? And I mean full hotel power for heating, lighting etc., not just control circuits.
 

37057

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Really? Can you give us an example where that’s the case? And I mean full hotel power for heating, lighting etc., not just control circuits.

Not worked the EMUs for a good few months now, but it's possible for one unit to cross-feed certain DC circuits such as HVACs (ventilation only) and toilets etc. Typically used if a unit has suffered an ADD activation, for example.

Certainly no way to run them normally.
 

Supercoss

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Indeed. I wonder why there's a max speed of 75MPH north of Bedford. Good to see they can run down into the low level platforms too!
Just to clarify can only be hauled pan do wn onto low level platforms A and B from Kentish Town
only class 73 haulage permitted on route with overheads switched off so unlikely to occur especially as canal tunnel link to ecml still hasn't been gauge cleared for Locomotives
 
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D_MTrains

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Some interesting restrictions applied -
can only do max 75 mph North of Bedford station
Only 1 pan raised on an 8 car
only 2 pans raised on 12 car ( front and rear)
route cleared to be hauled pan down

So these brand new overhead wires... can’t even take 3 pantograph on an EMU (Bedford-Corby). Or is this a temporary thing while they are still testing the cables up here between Bedford and Corby?
 
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D7666

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Some interesting restrictions applied -
can only do max 75 mph North of Bedford station
Only 1 pan raised on an 8 car
only 2 pans raised on 12 car ( front and rear)
route cleared to be hauled pan down -
-

Kentish Townto St Pancras low level plat B and St Pancras low level to Belle Isle through Canal Tunnel to from ECML can pan up Belle Isle to Ferme Park .
and across non wired branch to from Bletclhey
I'm a bit puzzled to say the least as to what exactly is capable of hauling them into the core i.e. into STP low level.
AFAIK the only thing that can go down there these days is a 73 and - question - the OLE has to be off anyway, so pan down isn't exactly a problem!
And if STP low level is the limit, it would have to be top/tail, since once a 360 has got there, it has to reverse no matter where it is going, and TBH I can't somehow see them running round there ....... :D
 

CAF397

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When the Chat Moss route was first electrified (from Ordsall Lane to Parkside Jn) there was a restriction of no more than 2 pantographs raised per train. If TPE were to ever run 3*350 then one pantograph would have to be lowered.
 

59CosG95

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When the Chat Moss route was first electrified (from Ordsall Lane to Parkside Jn) there was a restriction of no more than 2 pantographs raised per train. If TPE were to ever run 3*350 then one pantograph would have to be lowered.
Of course the 360s can only have 2 pans up if they're in a 12-car formation. If it's an 8-car, it's 1 pan only.
Definitely makes me think it's a power supply limitation problem.

Was the new AT feeder at Parkside commissioned before the TPE 350s were restricted in this way?
AFAIK the new feeder at Chalton (replacing the current one nearby at Sundon) hasn't gone online yet.
 

CAF397

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To be honest I don't know when the AT was commissioned, but seeing as Newton-le-Willows Jn to Earlestown was already wired, I'd imagine the new wiring was just switched on until the rest of the Chat Moss was complete.

I always assumed the restrictions on pantographs was for movement under the wires.

An instruction could have been created to limit the power notch of the 350s when accelerating if power was an issue?
 

D7666

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Umm if it's a power supply limit, and a 12car can have 2 pans up, then simple physics means an 8car will draw less power overall, as it is lighter, and the same maximum power controlled by the on borard traxction kit, therefore an 8car could have two pans up if it were power alone.

But 8car is limited to 1 pan.

So I suggest it must be another reason, such as pan spacing, and, with the 75 mph limit, I'd suggest the OLE is not yet set up in it's final 110 mph condition, which is probably a very last stage, when the wholelot is complete.
 

OTRail

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Umm if it's a power supply limit, and a 12car can have 2 pans up, then simple physics means an 8car will draw less power overall, as it is lighter, and the same maximum power controlled by the on borard traxction kit, therefore an 8car could have two pans up if it were power alone.

But 8car is limited to 1 pan.

So I suggest it must be another reason, such as pan spacing, and, with the 75 mph limit, I'd suggest the OLE is not yet set up in it's final 110 mph condition, which is probably a very last stage, when the wholelot is complete.
Or maybe it’s a matter of testing the 360s compatibility further on the new OHLE? Bare in mind it’s the first time a passenger train has used the OHLE since completion.

On another note the first 720s entered service with GA the other day, meaning a general roll out should be occurring soon which will enable the remainder of the 360s to be released to EMR over the coming months.
 

43055

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So these brand new overhead wires... can’t even take 3 pantograph on an EMU (Bedford-Corby). Or is this a temporary thing while they are still testing the cables up here between Bedford and Corby?
I think it will be temporary. The DATS 43+91 mash up train was out yesterday with a 90 in the middle as well which would make 3 pans at around 4 coaches spacing. It looks like it will be out again today with a few trips between Bedford and Corby.
 

D_MTrains

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I think it will be temporary. The DATS 43+91 mash up train was out yesterday with a 90 in the middle as well which would make 3 pans at around 4 coaches spacing. It looks like it will be out again today with a few trips between Bedford and Corby.
It is out again today, will likely be doing some more tests as it’s going a few times between Bedford and Corby. It makes no sense to permanently run with limited pantographs raised in usual service so I can only assume it is temporary.
 

OTRail

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It is out again today, will likely be doing some more tests as it’s going a few times between Bedford and Corby. It makes no sense to permanently run with limited pantographs raised in usual service so I can only assume it is temporary.
RTT codes?
 

Philip Phlopp

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It is out again today, will likely be doing some more tests as it’s going a few times between Bedford and Corby. It makes no sense to permanently run with limited pantographs raised in usual service so I can only assume it is temporary.

It is - remember the old Mk.3 OLE from Bedford south isn't suitably modifed (basically, read tensioned, as yet) for both speed or all possible pantograph configurations.
 
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That is not my recollection at all. As late as 1982/3 plans were advanced for extending the wires to Leicester and beyond, and the MML was to be the next ‘big’ electrification. Hence Leicester resignalling was OLE ready (both in signal positioning and immunisation). Certainly ahead of the ECML. The MML was to take the stock released from the WCML when the APTs arrived.

The strategy changed post sectorisation in 1982, when electrifying the ECML was shown to have a better case. The original ECML spec was cheap as chips; class 89s hauling the existing HST trailers, London to Leeds / Newcastle only, loco changes at Newcastle for Scotland.

Others may correct me, but as I understand it there is no difference in spec for Mk3b electrification between 90mph and 100mph. (Nor 110mph for that matter).
Adding to this, in the late 1970s I attended a BR management course in Derby, and we were addressed by a number of Board members and senior managers; at least one made reference to St Pancras - Bedford being viewed at BR Board level as the first part of total electrification of the MML through to Sheffield
 

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