EMR Class 360's

[Mikey C]

Adding to this, in the late 1970s I attended a BR management course in Derby, and we were addressed by a number of Board members and senior managers; at least one made reference to St Pancras - Bedford being viewed at BR Board level as the first part of total electrification of the MML through to Sheffield

That would be totally logical and consistent seeing how the WCML and ECML electrification schemes were progressively done out of the London termini, or how in East Anglia the wires were progressively extended to Norwich and Kings Lynn

 

[43096]

Looking at RTT, there's no obvious sign of 360101 having left Northampton either yesterday or today.

 

[OTRail]

Thanks for that, too; I hadn't realised that the MML extension electrification was to a new spec. I should have - thankfully, the wires across Northamptonshire's landscape are supported by much less-visually-intrusive supports than the GWML's.

I was speaking to a member of staff at Kettering yesterday, and he told me that the type of wiring used for the Corby electrification isn’t seen often across the UK, so there are temporary restrictions in place as a result.

Also, here’s 360113 and 104 stabled at Kettering yesterday (kindly taken for me by said staff member)

 

[AndyW33]

That would be totally logical and consistent seeing how the WCML and ECML electrification schemes were progressively done out of the London termini, or how in East Anglia the wires were progressively extended to Norwich and Kings Lynn

The West Coast wasn't done like that - the initial electrification was Crewe-Liverpool and Crewe-Manchester. The next scheme was Crewe-London (both via Trent Valley and via Birmingham) and it was that way round, with loco changes at places like Nuneaton, Rugby, Bletchley as the wires were put up and energised heading southwards in phases, Euston being the last to get 25kv. Finally the line north of Weaver Junction was approved, and again was done in phases, though in this case of course Glasgow Central was already wired for the suburban service. Loco changes en route featured again, notably at Preston, as the wires steadily extended northwards from the Crewe area this time.

 

[Nym]

The position of the uplifted wire is an intrinsic part of the geometry of the entire OLE system though...

And I should have said geometry data is now more frequently being recorded now by the use of instrumented pantographs on passenger vehicles running at line speed (and to service patterns) rather than MENTOR running in a Q path.

Which stocks are fitted with contact force OHL geometry measurement other than test trains?

I can understand non-contact camera systems being fitted to passenger units as it's just a single box on the roof, but a contact force system needs quite a bit more equipment.

 

[Ladder23]

when did the second one make its trip to Kettering!?

 

[OTRail]

when did the second one make its trip to Kettering!?

All three went at the same time - 113 was uncoupled from 116/104 and put into a separate siding upon arrival.

 

[Ladder23]

All three went at the same time - 113 was uncoupled from 116/104 and put into a separate siding upon arrival.

Makes sence! Cheers, I thought I missed another 3x4 formation move!

 

[Mag_seven]

I've moved some off topic discussion about pantographs and OLE here

Now can we please make an effort to stick to the topic of this thread which is EMR Class 360s.

thanks.

 

[CDM]

Even though traction power cannot be passed through a coupler, hotel power can.

Absolutely correct - in fact, on BR-era designed EMU stock, this is always the case (the 110v aux power is shared between units by default when they are coupled). A pan can be dropped on a coupled unit and the passengers wouldn't know the difference - lights/PA etc functions normally, just you have no traction power on that unit and heating may be reduced (in the case of A/C it would normally not operate in anything other than vent mode).

Not worked the EMUs for a good few months now, but it's possible for one unit to cross-feed certain DC circuits such as HVACs (ventilation only) and toilets etc. Typically used if a unit has suffered an ADD activation, for example.

Yes, the difference with the 360's is that unlike the BR-era stock, the 110v aux power is not automatically fed from one unit to another - it has to be manually configured when the units are coupled, if you want to do that.
It is not meant to be used for normal running, only in out-of-course events (recovery of failed train etc) and the unit that doesn't have the pan up, goes into quite severe load shed. There will be no a/c at all (this will be vent only) and I can't recall if heating even still works.

Umm if it's a power supply limit, and a 12car can have 2 pans up, then simple physics means an 8car will draw less power overall, as it is lighter, and the same maximum power controlled by the on borard traxction kit, therefore an 8car could have two pans up if it were power alone.

But 8car is limited to 1 pan.

So I suggest it must be another reason, such as pan spacing, and, with the 75 mph limit, I'd suggest the OLE is not yet set up in it's final 110 mph condition, which is probably a very last stage, when the wholelot is complete.

Could indeed be pan-bounce.
As you say, a 12-car with 2 units under traction would draw more load than an 8-car with both units under traction.

 

[OTRail]

According to a GA driver I spoke to at Liverpool Street, all the 360s are intended to be finished with GA by the end of the year.

 

[Supercoss]

Another two units due next week from Clacton this time to Cricklewood hauled by something with a nose.

 

[43055]

According to a GA driver I spoke to at Liverpool Street, all the 360s are intended to be finished with GA by the end of the year.

That's quite a few 720's to get in service in a month then to free up the 360's.

Another two units due next week from Clacton this time to Cricklewood hauled by something with a nose.

My first thought was back to back HST powercars but it can't be. GBRF have done all the other moves so I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing the rest of them.

 

[OTRail]

That's quite a few 720's to get in service in a month then to free up the 360's.

My first thought was back to back HST powercars but it can't be. GBRF have done all the other moves so I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing the rest of them.

Let’s not forget as well that the 321s/322s have taken over a large amount of the 360s’ work on the GEML, combined with the first few 720s entering service and timetable changes due to the pandemic meaning less 360s are required daily by GA. As far as I’m aware they’re only used on a few diagrams a day now - go along the GEML and they’re a rare sight to see.

 

[samuelmorris]

That's quite a few 720's to get in service in a month then to free up the 360's.

My first thought was back to back HST powercars but it can't be. GBRF have done all the other moves so I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing the rest of them.

Eight 321/322s came across from Northern, though. Only 13 360s to account for initially. The two pairs of 720s I've seen mentioned displace 6 321s to cover, so only 7 more to do I think?

 

[43055]

Let’s not forget as well that the 321s/322s have taken over a large amount of the 360s’ work on the GEML, combined with the first few 720s entering service and timetable changes due to the pandemic meaning less 360s are required daily by GA. As far as I’m aware they’re only used on a few diagrams a day now - go along the GEML and they’re a rare sight to see.

Eight 321/322s came across from Northern, though. Only 13 360s to account for initially. The two pairs of 720s I've seen mentioned displace 6 321s to cover, so only 7 more to do I think?

Ah ok. I didn't know some extra 321/322's had been sent to GA.

 

[OTRail]

Ah ok. I didn't know some extra 321/322's had been sent to GA.

Yep - the ex-Northern ones. Not sure whether GA would be able to cut some more slack using the ex-GN /4s it got a few years back.

 

[43096]

360101 returned to Ilford last night from Northampton. That completes the 110mph mod programme.

 

[Supercoss]

360 106 and 107 pencilled in to move Clacton CC to Cricklewood CW Monday evening directly coupled to loco with no translator coaches

 

[OTRail]

360 106 and 107 pencilled in to move Clacton CC to Cricklewood CW Monday evening directly coupled to loco with no translator coaches

Late Monday evening it seems - must have been difficult to secure paths earlier in the day...

Today’s training run seems to have disappeared from RTT - I can presume it isn’t going ahead?

 

[dmncf]

360 106 and 107 pencilled in to move Clacton CC to Cricklewood CW Monday evening directly coupled to loco with no translator coaches

Thanks. I assume this is it:

Realtime Trains - 599M 2056 Clacton C.S.D. to Cricklewood Depot

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[D_MTrains]

Realtime Trains - 3Y60 0643 Kettering Stabling Sidings to Kentish Town

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There seems to be a lot of these “Kettering Stabling Sidings to Kentish Town” services in the next coming months, with the first one being tomorrow.

I can only assume that these are Class 360s on driver training but if anyone has any other details regarding them then it would be appreciated.

 

[Ethan1852]

I can only assume that these are Class 360s on driver training

Yes these are driver training runs. I think conductor training might happen on these runs as well but not 100% sure.

 

[OTRail]

On the move, now running around 20 minutes late.

37510 hauled both 360106 and 107 on its own for tonight’s move.

 

[43055]

Updated class 360 list:

Class 360:
360101 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360102 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360103 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360104 - Blue with White stripe (at Kettering)
360105 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360106 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360107 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360108 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360109 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360110 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360111 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360112 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360113 - Blue with White stripe (at Kettering)
360114 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360115 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360116 - Blue with White stripe (at Kettering)
360117 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360118 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360119 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360120 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360121 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)

 

[Supercoss]

A little main line run from Cricklewood tomorrow planned 3Y61 AM and 3Y65 PM

 

[43055]

A little main line run from Cricklewood tomorrow planned 3Y61 AM and 3Y65 PM

They seem to be in from Tuesday until Friday this week. So far non have run.

From next week the paths are in the Working Timetable (Monday to Friday) until the May timetable change as:
3Y50: 0645 Kettering Stabling Sidings - Kentish Town 0752
3Y51: 0826 Kentish Town - Kettering Stabling Sidings 0941
3Y52: 1018 Kettering Stabling Sidings - Kentish Town 1146
3Y53: 1213 Kentish Town - Kettering Stabling Sidings 1314

All are down to stop at Wellingborough, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway.

There are also 3 returns down as Short Term Planning on Saturday 19th as 3Y60 through to 3Y65.

 

[Railperf]

Updated class 360 list:

Class 360:
360101 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360102 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360103 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360104 - Blue with White stripe (at Kettering)
360105 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360106 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360107 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360108 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360109 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360110 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360111 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360112 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360113 - Blue with White stripe (at Kettering)
360114 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360115 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360116 - Blue with White stripe (at Kettering)
360117 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360118 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360119 - Blue with Greater Anglia Fleet names (returned to Anglia)
360120 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)
360121 - Blue with White stripe (at Cricklewood)

Do we know how many of the ones with GA are now officially 'withdrawn' awaiting transfer, and how many remain 'available for traffic'.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Another two units due next week from Clacton this time to Cricklewood hauled by something with a nose.

Rudolph?

 

[Spartacus]

3Y60 & 3Y61 cancelled this morning but 3Y62 running with 360113.