EMR Class 360's

[43102EMR]

For start of service new May timetable some stats floating around
only 14 of the 21 units will be used with 8 car formations so peak ' run out' 7 x 8 car formations
and a start made cleaning external carriage bodywork to allow new vinyls/logos to be applies rather than repaint this will be dome in stabling
sidings rather than depots initially.

So the fleet will be vinyled as opposed to repainted? Or is this just as an interim solution?

 

[Domh245]

So the fleet will be vinyled as opposed to repainted? Or is this just as an interim solution?

Sounds to me like they'll get a few vinyls just to remind people that it's an EMR service but probably not the full-blown interim livery per other fleets as the base colours don't work - I'm expecting no more than an "EMR connect" in the white stripe already on the units.

 

[swt_passenger]

Presumably the requirement for seven pairs of units is a function of the moves to and from Bedford Cauldwell Walk associated with the through services to Melton Mowbray?

It otherwise looks like only six pairs are required for the basic three hour cycles.

Yes, I think what we actually have is a case of 5 and 2 halfs.

Sounds to me like they'll get a few vinyls just to remind people that it's an EMR service but probably not the full-blown interim livery per other fleets as the base colours don't work - I'm expecting no more than an "EMR connect" in the white stripe already on the units.

That reminds me I was surprised to see “EMR Connect” mentioned in their May 2021 PR. I thought the 3 sub brands were Inter City, Electric, and Regional?

 

[Domh245]

That reminds me I was surprised to see “EMR Connect” mentioned in their May 2021 PR. I thought the 3 sub brands were Inter City, Electric, and Regional?

Intercity, Electric & Regional were the three subbrands at launch, but I think they realised that "electrics" was a bit of a rubbish, hence the change. Quite rightly IMO

 

[swt_passenger]

Intercity, Electric & Regional were the three subbrands at launch, but I think they realised that "electrics" was a bit of a rubbish, hence the change. Quite rightly IMO

Yes, it wouldn‘t say very much when every other train in the area, (including Thameslink), eventually has a pan up anyway...

 

[43102EMR]

Sounds to me like they'll get a few vinyls just to remind people that it's an EMR service but probably not the full-blown interim livery per other fleets as the base colours don't work - I'm expecting no more than an "EMR connect" in the white stripe already on the units.

Ahh ok that makes sense, just that the post above made it sound as though the full livery would be in vinyl form as opposed to a repaint (which imo would be terrible, the fleet is in desperate need of a repaint)

 

[Bald Rick]

Just had to correct you there

One doesn’t like to correct a correction, but anything south of St Albans is automatically south of Luton!

The entire Northern network seems to function without first class complications.

With apologies to Hale and Pace - Northern have Working class and Alan Bennett class.

 

[Aictos]

One doesn’t like to correct a correction, but anything south of St Albans is automatically south of Luton!

However I was correct specifically regards to the Bedford to Rainham services which don't stop at Radlett yet are declassified.

 

[DannyMich2018]

In Pre Covid times what were the loadings of Corby services south of Kettering/Wellingborough like? In my experience of them at Kettering I've never seen a Corby service (4/5 car 222) in either direction heavily loaded or even close to crowded so goodness know's why we need 8 or 12 coaches! The Nottingham service (Pre Covid) at Kettering was always much busier than the Corby service.

 

[Bald Rick]

However I was correct specifically regards to the Bedford to Rainham services which don't stop at Radlett yet are declassified.

So they are! I withdraw my correction to your correction!

 

[edwin_m]

In Pre Covid times what were the loadings of Corby services south of Kettering/Wellingborough like? In my experience of them at Kettering I've never seen a Corby service (4/5 car 222) in either direction heavily loaded or even close to crowded so goodness know's why we need 8 or 12 coaches! The Nottingham service (Pre Covid) at Kettering was always much busier than the Corby service.

The Corby services will be taking the entire London passenger traffic from Wellingborough and some from Kettering, including that currently using the peak extra calls by longer-distance trains. There will probably also be a large number from Bedford and the Lutons, where it will be more attractive versus Thameslink than the current hourly service of shorter trains already well filled much of the time. So I think it will be considerably more popular than the current service pattern, though obviously still affected by how passenger numbers in general trend post-Covid.

 

[Aictos]

So they are! I withdraw my correction to your correction!

Thank you, not sure on the Sutton to Bedford services though.

 

[railneighbour]

In Pre Covid times what were the loadings of Corby services south of Kettering/Wellingborough like? In my experience of them at Kettering I've never seen a Corby service (4/5 car 222) in either direction heavily loaded or even close to crowded so goodness know's why we need 8 or 12 coaches! The Nottingham service (Pre Covid) at Kettering was always much busier than the Corby service.

On a Saturday morning, the Corby trains would often be full and standing by the time they left Wellingborough. Always fun when they got to Bedford & Luton...

 

[DG85]

In Pre Covid times what were the loadings of Corby services south of Kettering/Wellingborough like? In my experience of them at Kettering I've never seen a Corby service (4/5 car 222) in either direction heavily loaded or even close to crowded so goodness know's why we need 8 or 12 coaches! The Nottingham service (Pre Covid) at Kettering was always much busier than the Corby service.

Pre-covid and Pre-Thameslink 2018 timetable change, EMT services stopped at Bedford and Luton stations during peaks which were very heavily loaded. Evening Peaks from St Pancras were just as busy so going by those levels 8/12 car can be justified especially as these services will be the only ones stopping at Wellingborough too.

 

[LowLevel]

Today's update is that apparently first class will indeed be declassified on these trains, and that the reinstatement of this in the refurb is subject to a DfT review, for the time being anyone from Corby or Kettering wanting to use first class should change at Kettering for Intercity services.

Also no space for full sized cycles until the refurbishment happens.

 

[DannyMich2018]

On a Saturday morning, the Corby trains would often be full and standing by the time they left Wellingborough. Always fun when they got to Bedford & Luton...

Yes can imagine be busier further south. Also quicker from Bedford or Luton than TL. It's nice to see progress with electrification one day hopefully reach Nott/Sheffield.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Today's update is that apparently first class will indeed be declassified on these trains, and that the reinstatement of this in the refurb is subject to a DfT review, for the time being anyone from Corby or Kettering wanting to use first class should change at Kettering for Intercity services.

That's interesting. Elsewhere, there's been the suggestion that government announcements about railway policy cannot be made at the moment - the period of Purdah for a month before elections.
Adding 2 and 2 together and making 5* could it be that first class will be abolished, but DfT can't announce it until after May 16th ish? Seems strange that there's been a lot of EMR publicity about the 800s (some time away) and nothing about the 360s (3 and a half weeks).
There were comments by the Minister (I think) a little while ago about the general withdrawal of first class on commuter routes - possibly any announcement could be regarded as 'policy'..

*resisted crowbar-ing in something about 2+2 and 2+3 seating

 

[Old DMU]

Pleased to be a new member. Thank you. Interested in the roll out of class 360's to Corby. Have seen that on new May timetable the old Corby/Derby once a day train service has been, it looks like, replaced by a train North from St. Px at 10.45 via Corby to Melton Mowbray (serving Oakham), and South from Melton Mowbray at 13.15 via Corby to London St.Px. The times at Corby and London St. Px. match the new Connect 360 service times between Corby and London St.Px.. So my question is: The new Corby/London service with 360's is half hourly, but if the two trains mentioned reach Melton Mowbray (no wires), then i think they must be class 222's running those services? i.e. one of the so called electrics will be Diesel. Just a thought. I wondered how this affected the positioning of the sets as the service to MMowbray would not be back to Corby in time for the next return to London departure from Corby I would have thought unless they split the sets at Corby but one will be Diesel and one Electric??? Unless they sent a spare electric up from Kettering to fill the Corby southbound departure gap. Confusing. Haven't been able to see what stock used when I looked at realtime.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Pleased to be a new member. Thank you. Interested in the roll out of class 360's to Corby. Have seen that on new May timetable the old Corby/Derby once a day train service has been, it looks like, replaced by a train North from St. Px at 10.45 via Corby to Melton Mowbray (serving Oakham), and South from Melton Mowbray at 13.15 via Corby to London St.Px. The times at Corby and London St. Px. match the new Connect 360 service times between Corby and London St.Px.. So my question is: The new Corby/London service with 360's is half hourly, but if the two trains mentioned reach Melton Mowbray (no wires), then i think they must be class 222's running those services? i.e. one of the so called electrics will be Diesel. Just a thought. I wondered how this affected the positioning of the sets as the service to MMowbray would not be back to Corby in time for the next return to London departure from Corby I would have thought unless they split the sets at Corby???

It says “EMR Intercity” in the timetable

 

[43055]

Pleased to be a new member. Thank you. Interested in the roll out of class 360's to Corby. Have seen that on new May timetable the old Corby/Derby once a day train service has been, it looks like, replaced by a train North from St. Px at 10.45 via Corby to Melton Mowbray (serving Oakham), and South from Melton Mowbray at 13.15 via Corby to London St.Px. The times at Corby and London St. Px. match the new Connect 360 service times between Corby and London St.Px.. So my question is: The new Corby/London service with 360's is half hourly, but if the two trains mentioned reach Melton Mowbray (no wires), then i think they must be class 222's running those services? i.e. one of the so called electrics will be Diesel. Just a thought. I wondered how this affected the positioning of the sets as the service to MMowbray would not be back to Corby in time for the next return to London departure from Corby I would have thought unless they split the sets at Corby but one will be Diesel and one Electric??? Unless they sent a spare electric up from Kettering to fill the Corby southbound departure gap. Confusing. Haven't been able to see what stock used when I looked at realtime.

Welcome! The Melton services will use 222's and in the PDF timetable is branded as a Intercity service rather than Connect at the top of the column. Looking at real time trains:
The 1045 to Melton is followed by a empty 360 at 1048 from St Pancras which then forms the 1210 to London (would be return of the 1045).
On the return the 360 that arrives at Corby at 1356 then runs empty to Bedford Cauldwell Depot for maintenance and the 222 takes the path of the what would be 1410 from Corby at 1352. Another 360 comes off Cricklewood having been on maintenance at Bedford and run down earlier in the day to pick up the 1545 from St Pancras.

 

[DG85]

Pleased to be a new member. Thank you. Interested in the roll out of class 360's to Corby. Have seen that on new May timetable the old Corby/Derby once a day train service has been, it looks like, replaced by a train North from St. Px at 10.45 via Corby to Melton Mowbray (serving Oakham), and South from Melton Mowbray at 13.15 via Corby to London St.Px. The times at Corby and London St. Px. match the new Connect 360 service times between Corby and London St.Px.. So my question is: The new Corby/London service with 360's is half hourly, but if the two trains mentioned reach Melton Mowbray (no wires), then i think they must be class 222's running those services? i.e. one of the so called electrics will be Diesel. Just a thought. I wondered how this affected the positioning of the sets as the service to MMowbray would not be back to Corby in time for the next return to London departure from Corby I would have thought unless they split the sets at Corby but one will be Diesel and one Electric??? Unless they sent a spare electric up from Kettering to fill the Corby southbound departure gap. Confusing. Haven't been able to see what stock used when I looked at realtime.

That’s correct, this particular connect service will indeed be a cl.222 (4car apparently) according to the drivers diagrams. This is for the purpose of route retention as it continues on from Melton Mowbray to Syston empty. It then returns starting from Melton to form the 13:51 from Corby to London.

 

[Old DMU]

That’s correct, this particular connect service will indeed be a cl.222 (4car apparently) according to the drivers diagrams. This is for the purpose of route retention as it continues on from Melton Mowbray to Syston empty. It then returns starting from Melton to form the 13:51 from Corby to London.

Thank you for that. But still wondering. That train North to M.Mowbray reaches Corby at 11.52, where the electric would reverse normally. So since as a class 222 it continues to M.Mowbray instead, where does the electric come from to be the next 12.11 south to London St. Px. Do they run up some empty stock from Kettering stabling?

 

[43096]

Thank you for that. But still wondering. That train North to M.Mowbray reaches Corby at 11.52, where the electric would reverse normally. So since as a class 222 it continues to M.Mowbray instead, where does the electric come from to be the next 12.11 south to London St. Px. Do they run up some empty stock from Kettering stabling?

The answer is two posts above yours, if you look.

 

[Old DMU]

The answer is two posts above yours, if you look.

Thanks. I hadn't seen that.

Welcome! The Melton services will use 222's and in the PDF timetable is branded as a Intercity service rather than Connect at the top of the column. Looking at real time trains:
The 1045 to Melton is followed by a empty 360 at 1048 from St Pancras which then forms the 1210 to London (would be return of the 1045).
On the return the 360 that arrives at Corby at 1356 then runs empty to Bedford Cauldwell Depot for maintenance and the 222 takes the path of the what would be 1410 from Corby at 1352. Another 360 comes off Cricklewood having been on maintenance at Bedford and run down earlier in the day to pick up the 1545 from St Pancras.

Thanks.

 

[Hadders]

Declassified 1st class on the 700s and now the 360s, passengers travelling from Bedford and Luton are in for a treat!

 

[samuelmorris]

The existing first on 360s isn't much to write home about

 

[thatapanydude]

Re. the first class declassification on the 360s and possible news on not bringing it back its very disappointing - I suspect any chance of future catering is now lost too. Especially as we all know passengers from Wellingborough are paying a premium vs other similarly placed areas to London for a now "commuter" service.

 

[A0wen]

Re. the first class declassification on the 360s and possible news on not bringing it back its very disappointing - I suspect any chance of future catering is now lost too. Especially as we all know passengers from Wellingborough are paying a premium vs other similarly placed areas to London for a now "commuter" service.

Catering on a journey lasting about an hour is a moot point though. There isn't catering on Northampton services, nor Cambridge services for example. I doubt very much the takings on catering south of Kettering were of any significance.

 

[johnw]

The loss of First Class from Wellingborough is a problem, especially if EMR continues to charge Intercity fares from Wellingborough.

I often purchased advanced first tickets from London to Wellingborough as for a quieter journey at not more much cost. Im future I will drive to Bedford.

 

[Aictos]

Declassified 1st class on the 700s and now the 360s, passengers travelling from Bedford and Luton are in for a treat!

However declassifying 1st Class on the EMR fleet is likely to be temporary until the fleet gets refurbished unlike the TL fleet which has the rear most 1st Class in direction of travel permanently declassified.

Once the fleet is refurbished, I can't see them wishing to classify 1st Class plus I could see them offer weekend upgrades like I think London Midland used to do?