End of catering on SWR

[lkpridgeon]

I feel that if they (SWR) did this, then it would be tricky to actually make the Elior staff redundant, as it would be potentially breaking the rules around redundancy

Elior's staff are not SWR staff members, Elior just provided a service under contract to SWR. So in essence SWR are not making any staff redundant and have no obligations towards those Elior staff members. As the specific role no longer exists at Elior they are subsequently being made redundant subject to statutory consultation.

Whilst not morally correct SWR would be well within their right to take up a new supplier in the future because of this. Unless the contractual break forbids this. And I don't see what the RMT Union can do to stop this as I assume SWR have a break clause in the contract that they've simply opted to take as the service is no longer a firm requirement contractually with the DfT (at least for the time being).

I'll miss the service as I was a user when the trolly did bother to turn up however I can't say I'm surprised about the news. It looks like some consultation with the public was done before making the decision however wasn't open to all. Whilst all jobs should be preserved wherever possible it's a simply one of the risks of working in the private sector (having been through multiple consultations myself in the past few years).

 

[cakefiend]

TERMINATION OF SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY ON BOARD CATERING CONTRACT – ELIOR

Tell you what, I’ve read some utter dross from the RMT in my time (often as a member) but this is bloody good.

No daft posturing, no random political jabs, no ill-thought sound bites. Just a problem, a comment on the impact, and proposed solutions.

I really can’t see why Elior should have to make their staff redundant more or less immediately. There’s nothing to indicate they’re in any kind of financial trouble, so furloughing staff over Christmas until the scheme ends or is extended would be the kindest thing to do.

If SWR won’t reverse the decision (99.999% assured) then at the very least the staff have some more time to find new jobs at a net zero cost to their employer, assuming their wages weren’t being topped up.

Catering staff have huge amounts of experience that can be put to good use elsewhere on the railway, especially ones that have worked for outsourced firms and stuck with it despite the usually atrocious terms and conditions.

Let’s hope they can get work elsewhere, and soon.

 

[dk1]

Will it really? A lukewarm cup of instant coffee and a curled up cheese and tomato sandwich?

It's not making money because people are buying it at Waterloo or wherever and getting nicer coffee and better sandwiches from M&S. The journey isn't long enough to need two cups.

Trolley cases mean it's perfectly feasible to carry a coffee in the hand that's not pulling the case. People don't use classic suitcases any more.

Not seen cheese & tomato sandwiches for sale onboard since the early 1980s.

 

[hermit]

Sad news, especially of course for the staff involved, who for the most part added a bit of cheer to the journey.
On the Portsmouth line the trolley seemed pretty well-used pre-Covid. Passengers like me from the IW will particularly miss it, as the tight connections from the ferry do not allow time to pick up a coffee from the Wightlink Costa or the station café.
And on occasion the trolley was the deciding factor in me choosing to take the Waterloo train rather than Southern to Victoria (whose services lost their trolley, from Horsham, years ago).

 

[yorksrob]

It is sad news if true. I've often made use of the trolley on Waterloo - Exeter. Did good beer as well. Badger brewery I think.

 

[hexagon789]

I suppose with SWR you have the quirk of it having a couple of what might be termed long distance IC workings, i.e. Weymouth and Salisbury/Exeter.

I would agree with labelling those as IC but I think that's getting to the edge of where the definition becomes blurred.

With regard to the commuter services, there's basically no point, you get better coffee at the station or take your own. I think it's actually the advent of quality coffee that's done a lot towards killing trolleys - why pay over £2 for a cup of instant when you can pay that for something of more quality? And it's much easier to provide that quality at the station, where in many cases there are old, underused buildings with lots of surplus space to put it in.

I agree re commuter services, I think it's only really viable for longer services of at least a few hours.

 

[FQTV]

If SWR won’t reverse the decision (99.999% assured) then at the very least the staff have some more time to find new jobs at a net zero cost to their employer, assuming their wages weren’t being topped up.

Only because I agree with everything else in your post, I think it’s useful to make sure that there are no chinks in the argument.

This snip is a chink, though, as in point of fact, furlough even without top up is not net zero cost to the employer. Elior would still need to pay employer National Insurance contributions and employer pension contributions; employers cannot claim for these.

 

[moley]

A couple of points: the break clause timing will have been set out in the contract whee it was originally signed. It’s unfortunate that it’s in the middle of a pandemic but that’s life. Nothing to say that SWR wouldn’t have triggered the break clause anyway. Service has not been as good as RG.

Its also possibly that the contract had payment clauses which required SWR to compensate Elior if turnover dropped below prescribed levels. The reason I suspect this is it takes the risk away from Elior for things like Strikes, Engineering Works, Mass cancellations. Elior has to employ staff irrrlevant of if SWR runs trains so it would be a sensible clause.

If I’m right then SWR will be paying out compensation to Elior at present. If that’s set to continue, it may be cheaper to utilise the break clause and re-tender/take in house later in 2021.

 

[43096]

The Settle & Carlisle trolley service (staffed by volunteers) seemed to do OK. Have any other rural supporters groups tried similar elsewhere?

Free labour makes a huge difference to the economics of a catering operation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Free labour makes a huge difference to the economics of a catering operation.

Indeed. It's precisely why airline catering is a profit centre - the cabin crew are there for safety reasons and because they are legally required, therefore their wages need not be considered against whether the trolley is profitable or not, because they would be there whether there was a trolley or not.

 

[paul1609]

Free labour makes a huge difference to the economics of a catering operation.

Im under the impression that whilst the catering is done by the settle carlisle development co all the staff are paid and not volunteers.

 

[dk1]

Ironically GA return to catering on all advertised services from today with staff going back to their full roster. Been cafe bar & trolley on several services recently.

 

[Carlisle]

Im under the impression that whilst the catering is done by the settle carlisle development co all the staff are paid and not volunteers.

Yes that was my understanding too

 

[londonteacher]

The issue is there is so much choice these days at most stations either on the station or just outside that not many of the average customer purchases often if at all from onboard catering.

I personally wouldn't mind the option to purchase on board but if you were to survey young (under 40ish) they would most likely not want to.

As for SWR, or any TOCs, if they have a journey that is over a certain period of time some sort of provision should be available even if it's basic such as just drinks.

 

[Gloster]

Im under the impression that whilst the catering is done by the settle carlisle development co all the staff are paid and not volunteers.

But is the Settle-Carlisle Railway Development Co. under the same pressures on costs and profits as a purely commercial operation, which I presume the SWR’s catering providers are? Is it a ‘not for profit’ organisation? (Although most of the railway system seems to be a not for profit organisation at the moment)

 

[londonteacher]

The issue is there is so much choice these days at most stations either on the station or just outside that not many of the average customer purchases often if at all from onboard catering.

I personally wouldn't mind the option to purchase on board but if you were to survey young (under 40ish) they would most likely not want to.

As for SWR, or any TOCs, if they have a journey that is over a certain period of time some sort of provision should be available even if it's basic such as just drinks.

The bottom bit about provision is just my opinion.

 

[[.n]]

Tell you what, I’ve read some utter dross from the RMT in my time (often as a member) but this is bloody good.

No daft posturing, no random political jabs, no ill-thought sound bites. Just a problem, a comment on the impact, and proposed solutions.

I really can’t see why Elior should have to make their staff redundant more or less immediately. There’s nothing to indicate they’re in any kind of financial trouble, so furloughing staff over Christmas until the scheme ends or is extended would be the kindest thing to do.

If SWR won’t reverse the decision (99.999% assured) then at the very least the staff have some more time to find new jobs at a net zero cost to their employer, assuming their wages weren’t being topped up.

Catering staff have huge amounts of experience that can be put to good use elsewhere on the railway, especially ones that have worked for outsourced firms and stuck with it despite the usually atrocious terms and conditions.

Let’s hope they can get work elsewhere, and soon.

They are furloughing staff over Christmas, they are in the minimum consultation period before notice of redundancy, so they won't actually be able to give notice of redundancy until 17 January (or thereabouts, I can't remember the date now). I assume most staff are probably on a 4 week notice period.

Its hard to say, but given SWR exercised their break clause, I think it was probably correct of Elior to tell staff immediately, maximising the opportunity for those who will get no / minimal redundancy to seek employment elsewhere, which I think means anyone employed post RG? I wonder what RG's redundancy provisions are, as these will have been TUPE'd over won't they?

 

[theironroad]

Ironically GA return to catering on all advertised services from today with staff going back to their full roster. Been cafe bar & trolley on several services recently.

Hadnt seen this post but believe me the irony hadnt escaped me as the trolley trundled past me today around stowmarket on a southbound london service. The other head scratching moment was the fact of the 1 ga service yesterday and 3 today I've been on, the guard has been staying in the back cab/zone on all of them rather than walking through. Heard not seen!

 

[dk1]

Hadnt seen this post but believe me the irony hadnt escaped me as the trolley trundled past me today around stowmarket on a southbound london service. The other head scratching moment was the fact of the 1 ga service yesterday and 3 today I've been on, the guard has been staying in the back cab/zone on all of them rather than walking through. Heard not seen!

It all depends on the individual as to whether they choose to do this in exactly the same way catering staff make a choice to pass through the saloon. Some will, some won't.

 

[antharro]

A shame, but I guess a sign of the times. Some of the Bournemouth based staff were very friendly and I enjoyed chatting with them when I commuted to Waterloo regularly. Shame Bournemouth only has a couple of vending machines to take their place when the cafe is closed, which it always seems to be when I travel!

 

[Goldfish62]

Difficult to imagine how any railway catering can make a profit, really. It's usually done as something that enhances the service and makes it more attractive as a loss leader.

DB provides comprehensive catering on their IC and ICE services (we won't mention the IC2s) for this very reason. It makes a loss but enhances the overall product.

Likewise the complimentary 1st Class meals on AWC and LNER will obviously be a loss to the companies, but they consider them a worthwhile enhancement to the overall service.

 

[Butts]

DB provides comprehensive catering on their IC and ICE services (we won't mention the IC2s) for this very reason. It makes a loss but enhances the overall product.

Likewise the complimentary 1st Class meals on AWC and LNER will obviously be a loss to the companies, but they consider them a worthwhile enhancement to the overall service.

"Meals" - have you seen the size of the portions ?

Snacks would be a more appropriate description.

 

[theironroad]

It all depends on the individual as to whether they choose to do this in exactly the same way catering staff make a choice to pass through the saloon. Some will, some won't.

I'm guessing that there is either/both a company instruction or union instruction not to walk through, as of the 12 GA trains I've been on in last 48hrs , the guard has appeared 0/12 times.

 

[dk1]

I'm guessing that there is either/both a company instruction or union instruction not to walk through, as of the 12 GA trains I've been on in last 48hrs , the guard has appeared 0/12 times.

Some will, some won't as I said. Lots more ticket checks now ironically guard just checked mine from Brundall and almost all guards collect a ticket machine. Catering is similar. Guess you've just been very unlucky.

 

[Goldfish62]

"Meals" - have you seen the size of the portions ?

Snacks would be a more appropriate description.

OK, to avoid an OT discussion on what people consider to be a meal let's just call it food.

In any case it doesn't alter the point I was making.

 

[packermac]

Tell you what, I’ve read some utter dross from the RMT in my time (often as a member) but this is bloody good.

No daft posturing, no random political jabs, no ill-thought sound bites. Just a problem, a comment on the impact, and proposed solutions.

I really can’t see why Elior should have to make their staff redundant more or less immediately. There’s nothing to indicate they’re in any kind of financial trouble, so furloughing staff over Christmas until the scheme ends or is extended would be the kindest thing to do.

If SWR won’t reverse the decision (99.999% assured) then at the very least the staff have some more time to find new jobs at a net zero cost to their employer, assuming their wages weren’t being topped up.

Catering staff have huge amounts of experience that can be put to good use elsewhere on the railway, especially ones that have worked for outsourced firms and stuck with it despite the usually atrocious terms and conditions.

Let’s hope they can get work elsewhere, and soon.

It might not be the usual dross but this line says it all (my bold). As others have said it may not be the ideal time for staff but this would have been the time (or one of the times) SWR were allowed to do this contractually. The supplier signed it, they did not have to.

SWR has chosen without any warning to terminate Elior’s contract using a break clause

 

[[.n]]

A shame, but I guess a sign of the times. Some of the Bournemouth based staff were very friendly and I enjoyed chatting with them when I commuted to Waterloo regularly. Shame Bournemouth only has a couple of vending machines to take their place when the cafe is closed, which it always seems to be when I travel!

You can use the ASDA/McDonalds at the Travel Interchange side of the station, or I think its Co-Op/Texaco if you're coming from the other side. Doesn't take much time at all if you're organised, I've actually done it a few times when the queue at the Pumpkin cafe has been really long and beaten people in the queue.

What does take nerves of steel however is when you're on the Weymouth portion of a train that connects to another portion at Bournemouth for onward travel towards London, is to use the few minutes between arrival and departure to pop into the Pumpkin cafe and make a purchase! A similar trick is possible at Poole with the cafe there if the train is running early.

I've done that a few times

 

[Wuz]

SWR have cancelled their contract with Elior to provide on-board catering and today Elior started the official (minimum) 45 day consultation period prior to making redundancies. The official union representation is from RMT and the next meeting with Elior and RMT is Thursday 10 December. This affects those at the Bournemouth, Portsmouth, Salisbury and Waterloo locations.


Its a shame to see the end of on board catering particularly on the longer Pompey/Soton/Bournemouth/Weymouth/Exeter routes, but to be honest has always looked a possibility since Rail Gourmet lost the contract and the refurbed trains ripped out the buffet spaces.

I travelled from Exeter to Ipswich a couple of years ago.

First Class on a GWR HST to Paddington, I had a free tea and a snack. Likewise on the Liverpool St to Ipswich GA train.

Coming back, I went via Waterloo. The reason was there was no advance tickets and a bus replacement for part of the journey. I was surprised that I had to pay for a tea on the train. I think there was a free drink available on some early services but not on my c14:00 train! It was slower, however it made a change of scenery and I wasn't in a hurry,

 

[HowardGWR]

The amount of passengers travelling all the way to Exeter from Waterloo is very small I'd imagine. It's essentially a local stopping service west of Salisbury.
Most people travelling to Exeter will use the much faster GWR services which ofc have catering.

That is incorrect (in bold). The number of pax travelling from east of Exeter (from Feniton onwards) to SE destinations. is considerable. That's why the catering trolleys are based at Axminster.

 

[FenMan]

The issue is there is so much choice these days at most stations either on the station or just outside that not many of the average customer purchases often if at all from onboard catering.

I personally wouldn't mind the option to purchase on board but if you were to survey young (under 40ish) they would most likely not want to.

As for SWR, or any TOCs, if they have a journey that is over a certain period of time some sort of provision should be available even if it's basic such as just drinks.

At the London end, of course. But when joining a down service en route or an up service at the country end, not so much. I've been grateful for the catering offering when returning home from Honiton for example.