England & Wales Tracing App to be released Sept 24th

[big_rig]

I reckon this'll just make more people try to circumvent the system - i.e. by providing false details, or not picking up the phone to T&T.

Usual 10pm announcement via Sky News as per usual though. I wonder what junior minister will be dragged out of bed to do the Sunday morning news rounds tomorrow and face endless questions regarding it?

I have to admit to doing the former in a sense at one of our local restaurants - they just had a piece of paper with names and times of arrival, with nothing to discern where in the restaurant you are (there aren’t any tables numbers on the form etc). I made a judgement to use illegible handwriting given that there was no protocol to determine whether I was sat next to or ten meters away from anybody else in the joint. I suspect people may do more of this in future now given the stakes.

 

[Domh245]

The £500 'support' payment is good to see, and should go a long way to helping encourage compliance. I almost wonder if it's worth some sort of non means-tested support payment for everyone as a bung to encourage compliance, somewhere in the region of £100 possibly

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sky news reporting that 14 days self-isolation either from a positive test or contact by test & trace will be made law on the 28th, with fines starting at £1,000 and rising to £10,000 for non-compliance. May certainly affects whether one would want to download the app and scan in at the gents! A carrot as well as stick as a £500 bonus for low paid people for entering isolation.

Not enough. It needs to be 100% of salary if you can't work - it's only 2 weeks!

 

[takno]

The £500 'support' payment is good to see, and should go a long way to helping encourage compliance. I almost wonder if it's worth some sort of non means-tested support payment for everyone as a bung to encourage compliance, somewhere in the region of £100 possibly

It appears to be restricted to working people on benefits. Given the cuts to in-work benefits recently that's basically a couple of million people at best

 

[Bletchleyite]

It appears to be restricted to working people on benefits. Given the cuts to in-work benefits recently that's basically a couple of million people at best

It's good but it's not good enough. It should be a system of paying the employer to pay full sick pay for anyone isolating who cannot work from home - basically a two week furlough.

 

[island]

I’ve also changed to No – as it is liable to increase the chance of being forced to self-isolate on pain of a £1,000 fine. I would previously have self-isolated if asked to do so but would have wanted the flexibility to exercise at a nearby deserted public park, which I could very easily get to and from without encountering anyone. This is within the spirit but not the letter of what you may do when self-isolating and I’m sorry but my desire to cooperate has been eroded away by six months of pettifogging regulations curtailing civil liberties.

 

[DelayRepay]

Does an alert from the app count as an instruction to isolate? Given the assurances around privacy, how would anyone other than me know that I got an alert because I was another person who has tested positive?

 

[Huntergreed]

Does an alert from the app count as an instruction to isolate? Given the assurances around privacy, how would anyone other than me know that I got an alert because I was another person who has tested positive?

Presumably as it is part of track and trace it would.

 

[Bantamzen]

As I understand it if you get an alert there is no way for this to be followed up, as the data for where you have been is stored only on your phone and only will transmit if you report a positive test. So technically you could get an alert and do nothing.

 

[mawallace]

As I understand it if you get an alert there is no way for this to be followed up, as the data for where you have been is stored only on your phone and only will transmit if you report a positive test. So technically you could get an alert and do nothing.

just wait a few weeks for the press to find out.. then it will be - oh - if the app says isolate - you have to and pay a fine!

 

[Bantamzen]

just wait a few weeks for the press to find out.. then it will be - oh - if the app says isolate - you have to and pay a fine!

As I've said, the app does not share data unless you choose to do so:

Choose what data you share – NHS COVID-19 app support - NHS.UK

Find out more about how we use, protect and share your data in the NHS COVID-19 app.

covid19.nhs.uk

It is always your choice to use the app to share data with the NHS.

You need to enter the first part of your postcode, known as your postcode district. Read more about how we use your postcode district.

Once you’ve done this, you can:

• use, or not use, app features independently
• use parts of the app without sharing any data at all (for example, Venue check-in)
• choose to delete the app at any time

If you choose to delete the app, you will not receive any notifications from the app about coronavirus (COVID-19).

The data collected by the app is stored on your phone. No one can see or use this data unless you choose to submit it. Any data you share with the NHS is used to help us:

• learn more about coronavirus to support health services, such as your local hospital - for example, this could help to give them up-to-date information about coronavirus in your area
• provide advice to you based on your situation - for example when you have been near another app user who has tested positive for coronavirus
• provide advice to the public
• improve and monitor the effectiveness of the app

 

[MikeWM]

As I've said, the app does not share data unless you choose to do so:

Choose what data you share – NHS COVID-19 app support - NHS.UK

Find out more about how we use, protect and share your data in the NHS COVID-19 app.

covid19.nhs.uk

I am indeed rather reassured by what I read about the app - if we are to have such a thing, it does seem to have been implemented in the most sensible way from a privacy perspective. This may be a very rare example of the government getting something right.

(I'm a little concerned that the 'venue checkin' is priming us for a 'show us the app that says that you're well enough to enter the venue' check in the not-so-distant future - but that's not a problem with the app itself...)

I'm a bit unclear at the process that happens when someone gets a case though. What happens to make their keys marked as such (ie. who authorises it, and how)? And how will appropriate venues be identified and marked?

It is still somewhat a moot point for me, however, as I still won't have a phone that will run it...

 

[kevin_roche]

I am indeed rather reassured by what I read about the app - if we are to have such a thing, it does seem to have been implemented in the most sensible way from a privacy perspective. This may be a very rare example of the government getting something right.

Having been forced into it by Apple and Google. Who's in charge here?

 

[island]

At Le Relais de Venise in the City of London today the hostess took one first name and phone number per party, which she noted down on a clipboard that was not visible to other patrons, along with the table number and waitress name. Alternatively one can choose to sign in with an email address to the restaurant’s WiFi which emails you a link to check out when you are leaving – recording your leaving time is very sensible to avoid unnecessary test & trace contacts. Waitresses wear face shields; no face coverings are required for patrons, and the restaurant maintains the one way entry/exit system it had prior to Covid19.

This is a very sensible approach and I was pleased to see the restaurant decently busy.

 

[birchesgreen]

Having been forced into it by Apple and Google. Who's in charge here?

Forced? That's a bit strong. Apple & Google developed an API which governments could use for their apps but they were not forced to. The UK government tried to go it alone and that didn't work. But it could have of course.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Forced? That's a bit strong. Apple & Google developed an API which governments could use for their apps but they were not forced to. The UK government tried to go it alone and that didn't work. But it could have of course.

Apple and Google did make it awkward to do things involving Bluetooth signal strength without the phone unlocked, if I recall.

 

[birchesgreen]

Apple and Google did make it awkward to do things involving Bluetooth signal strength without the phone unlocked, if I recall.

Wasn't that an iOS issue that existed beforehand?

 

[Trackman]

Having been forced into it by Apple and Google. Who's in charge here?

It's turned off by default.
In iOS14 it's called 'Exposure Notifications' in settings

 

[takno]

Apple and Google did make it awkward to do things involving Bluetooth signal strength without the phone unlocked, if I recall.

Google and Apple produced a set of APIs which made Bluetooth connection monitoring work at all on their systems, since normally that kind of thing is blocked for very good performance reasons.

The government thought they could ignore that work and produce something more intrusive and bypass the operating system controls. When they failed at that they had a go at blaming Google and Apple.

All Google and Apple did was to decline to do a bunch of country-specific work to break their operating systems in support of our government's insatiable demand for centralised control of data.

 

[kevin_roche]

All Google and Apple did was to decline to do a bunch of country-specific work to break their operating systems in support of our government's insatiable demand for centralised control of data.

As I understood it there are conditions attached to making use of the Google/Apple API. The government must agree to the conditions before being allowed to make use of the API. The conditions do not allow the data on who had been in contact with who being uploaded to a centralised database.

I actually support that sentiment but it seems strange that this time around Big Business is protecting us from Big Brother.

 

[Mike395]

The app is now available to download from the App Store for Apple devices ahead of the official launch tomorrow. Been having a play around with it (along with a very top-level skim read of the source code which is available on GitHub) and quite impressed - this is the app we needed back in May, but better late than never.

 

[bspahh]

The app is now available to download from the App Store for Apple devices ahead of the official launch tomorrow. Been having a play around with it (along with a very top-level skim read of the source code which is available on GitHub) and quite impressed - this is the app we needed back in May, but better late than never.

I downloaded the new app it, and it showed a link to this privacy statement, which has not been updated since August, and specifically talks about only being meant for the initial test version

[Withdrawn] [Withdrawn] NHS COVID-19 app: privacy notice

www.gov.uk

 

[Mike395]

I downloaded the new app it, and it showed a link to this privacy statement, which has not been updated since August, and specifically talks about only being meant for the initial test version

[Withdrawn] [Withdrawn] NHS COVID-19 app: privacy notice

www.gov.uk

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here so long as the correct version is live tomorrow - the app isn't officially launched yet so the trial's privacy policy isn't the end of the world.

 

[bspahh]

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here so long as the correct version is live tomorrow - the app isn't officially launched yet so the trial's privacy policy isn't the end of the world.

I've sent them a message about it. Its enough for me to give up on it this evening.

It doesn't fill me with confidence with their release testing if they can't link to the document for the first click on the install procedure.

They should also have listed it as a new application on the Google Play store. At the moment there are a load of 1 star reviews, some of which are from people who have tried to download the early adopter trial version when they didn't have a code.

 

[Bantamzen]

Well I've downloaded the live app, so let's see how this works over the coming weeks. The good news for less technical people is that the UI is very simple, and you can turn off the Bluetooth tracking from the front page, which means if the app is having an adverse effect on battery life or if you simply aren't leaving home that day you can quickly switch it of without diving into settings.

 

[nlogax]

App looks decent enough, but I'm going to manually have to remember to switch between this one and the Scottish one depending on where I am. Only one app can use Exposure Notifications at any given time.

 

[Mike395]

App looks decent enough, but I'm going to manually have to remember to switch between this one and the Scottish one depending on where I am. Only one app can use Exposure Notifications at any given time.

For this reason, I can see that if the App is proven to be working well, Scotland may decide to merge its app into the England/Wales one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For this reason, I can see that if the App is proven to be working well, Scotland may decide to merge its app into the England/Wales one.

I can't, because Sturgeon.

 

[The_Train]

There is no way I'm downloading anything that is connected to our current Government. I've always worked to the premise of not trusting a politician (they all lie) but the bunch that the Great British public voted in this time around have taken dishonest and self-indulgent behaviour to a whole new level. It's safe to say that they wouldn't think twice about telling us one thing (via a privacy notice on an app for example) and doing something entirely different

 

[takno]

For this reason, I can see that if the App is proven to be working well, Scotland may decide to merge its app into the England/Wales one.

The Scottish one has already been working well for a while. If they merge it then the million or so people in Scotland who've already downloaded it would have to download another app, and probably lose a couple of week's tracking data. It's not like that many people are crossing the border that often.