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Entire 800/801/802 fleet stood down for safety checks

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irish_rail

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That’s excellent news. I don’t think anyone cares about short forms or differing stock as long as their train runs.
Too be fair that isn't true. Imagine travelling London to Cornwall, in high summer with the kids and loads of luggage and you get a 5 car , lose your reservations, cannot sit together , and potentially no seat at all. Meanwhile you see a 9 car set glide out of Paddington , bound for Swansea half empty. I think this summer it goes without saying 9s and 10s will be needed on many Cornish trains not short forms, and I have every faith that GWR will allocate stock as such!
 
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cactustwirly

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Too be fair that isn't true. Imagine travelling London to Cornwall, in high summer with the kids and loads of luggage and you get a 5 car , lose your reservations, cannot sit together , and potentially no seat at all. Meanwhile you see a 9 car set glide out of Paddington , bound for Swansea half empty. I think this summer it goes without saying 9s and 10s will be needed on many Cornish trains not short forms, and I have every faith that GWR will allocate stock as such!

Swansea services out of Paddington can be very busy as well.
Some of the South West trains can be very dead
 

dk1

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Too be fair that isn't true. Imagine travelling London to Cornwall, in high summer with the kids and loads of luggage and you get a 5 car , lose your reservations, cannot sit together , and potentially no seat at all. Meanwhile you see a 9 car set glide out of Paddington , bound for Swansea half empty. I think this summer it goes without saying 9s and 10s will be needed on many Cornish trains not short forms, and I have every faith that GWR will allocate stock as such!
In the long/normal term yes, but at the moment with the 800 series issues you have to be grateful you’ve got any train at all.
 

irish_rail

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In the long/normal term yes, but at the moment with the 800 series issues you have to be grateful you’ve got any train at all.
Agreed. Provided you are talking next couple of weeks and not longer, as once we get to late June, things are really going to start to pick up travel wise, especially to the south west.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Imagine travelling London to Cornwall, in high summer with the kids and loads of luggage and you get a 5 car , lose your reservations, cannot sit together , and potentially no seat at all. Meanwhile you see a 9 car set glide out of Paddington , bound for Swansea half empty. I think this summer it goes without saying 9s and 10s will be needed on many Cornish trains not short forms, and I have every faith that GWR will allocate stock as such!

Swansea services out of Paddington can be very busy as well.
Some of the South West trains can be very dead

I think it’s fair to say both routes can have busy times and quiet times. The challenge will be to try and match demand to resource on all routes.
 

dk1

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Agreed. Provided you are talking next couple of weeks and not longer, as once we get to late June, things are really going to start to pick up travel wise, especially to the south west.
Couldn’t agree more. I head West several times a year & have done since the 90s. Will be busier than ever which is why it’s such a shame that XC have let the side down so badly in that region.
 

irish_rail

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Swansea services out of Paddington can be very busy as well.
Some of the South West trains can be very dead
And those dead services are welcome to be formed of 5 cars. But for the vast majority of SW services, 9s and 10s will be needed this summer thank you very much.
 

DaveHarries

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Most of the units stranded should be moved today:

800021 at Gloucester & 800317 at Hereford > Stoke Gifford
800031, 800308 at Worcester & 802006 at Oxford > North Pole
Looking on RealTimeTrains I found these:
- 5Z00 (1230 Hereford - Stoke Gifford IEP Depot) - scheduled to run via. Abergavenny but cancelled "due to a delay not investigated"
- 5Z00 (1318 Hereford - Stoke Gifford IEP Depot) - ran via. Worcester and Yate to time (or slightly early) but sat in P1 at Bristol Parkway for 68 minutes, arriving Stoke Gifford @ 1641 (64 late)
- 5Z01 (1330 Worcester Hereford Sidings => North Pole IEP Depot), which departed 49 late @ 1419 and arrived 45 late @ 1636 but ran 50-60 minutes down in places.
- 5Z02 (1530 Worcester Hereford Sidings => North Pole IEP Depot), which ran to time throughout.
- 5Z03 (1117 Oxford Up CS - North Pole IEP Depot)
- 5Z74 (1000 Horton Road Jcn - Stoke Gifford IEP Depot), which ran about 15 minutes late.
I think there was one in Exeter as well but not 100% sure?
A look on RTT reveals a 5Z70 (1432 Exeter New Yard - North Pole IEP Depot) which is pathed as an 800/802 on Diesel. It got no further than Taunton, where it arrived 2 minutes early and was then cancelled due to "a delay not investigated". There is then another path which was 5Z70 (1509 Taunton - Stoke Gifford IEP Depot) which did run its full trip. RTT has the 5Z70 from Exeter as being an STP move but the subsequent 5Z70 which started at Taunton as a VST move so something must have forced a very short-notice change of plan.

HTIOI,
Dave
 

class ep-09

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Looking on RealTimeTrains I found these:
- 5Z00 (1230 Hereford - Stoke Gifford IEP Depot) - scheduled to run via. Abergavenny but cancelled "due to a delay not investigated"
- 5Z00 (1318 Hereford - Stoke Gifford IEP Depot) - ran via. Worcester and Yate to time (or slightly early) but sat in P1 at Bristol Parkway for 68 minutes, arriving Stoke Gifford @ 1641 (64 late)
The first 5Z00 ( 12.30 of Hereford ) cancelled due to driver not signing the route via Abergavenny but train was able to go to BPW via Chartfield ( 2nd 5Z00 - 13.18 of Hereford) as that route is signed by Worcester HSS crew.
 

Wyrleybart

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Couldn’t agree more. I head West several times a year & have done since the 90s. Will be busier than ever which is why it’s such a shame that XC have let the side down so badly in that region.

I hardly think you can blame XC for "letting the side down". For the last five years, and continuing for the next umpteen years XC has been on repeated contract extensions. Despite massively increasing passenger numbers pre covid the franchise has received just eight second-hand twenty year old vehicles. 6 x class 170 centre cars and the end cars from 221144.

More importantly though, the XC franchise as with most other franchises is being managed by Arriva on the direction of the DfT. It is the DfT who have chosen not to apply the usual XC summer service to Newquay and Paignton, as well as the present XC lower level of service to the South coast. Remember that at the moment Covid restrictions mean trains can carry less pax than they used to. As XC is regarded as a leisure operator rather than a commuter service, the bounceback of passengers will be much quicker, but XC is still struggling to provide enough covid seats.
 

dk1

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I hardly think you can blame XC for "letting the side down". For the last five years, and continuing for the next umpteen years XC has been on repeated contract extensions. Despite massively increasing passenger numbers pre covid the franchise has received just eight second-hand twenty year old vehicles. 6 x class 170 centre cars and the end cars from 221144.

More importantly though, the XC franchise as with most other franchises is being managed by Arriva on the direction of the DfT. It is the DfT who have chosen not to apply the usual XC summer service to Newquay and Paignton, as well as the present XC lower level of service to the South coast. Remember that at the moment Covid restrictions mean trains can carry less pax than they used to. As XC is regarded as a leisure operator rather than a commuter service, the bounceback of passengers will be much quicker, but XC is still struggling to provide enough covid seats.
But it’s still not operating a full service on its core Voyager routes instead choosing to double up, reduce frequency &/or stop short of normal destinations. It is resuming everything on its 170 operated services on the likes of Stansted/Birmingham from tomorrow at least.
 

73128

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I’d imagine South Cotswolds via Stroud will be one of the last, on the basis that it is usually one of the first to be cancelled when there is service disruption.

Rather unfortunately, one of the two DMUs running this service has just developed a fault at Swindon!

EDIT: Both units operating these services have now developed a fault. A class 158 is stuck at Swindon with a communications fault and a class 165 requires maintenance attention on arrival at Gloucester.
I suspect that Bedwyn will be the last, after the two Cotswold routes

They’re restricted to solo (4 car) Newbury work; so expect them to work Newburys most days.
is that because they haven't got SDO (selective door opening) enabled?

That’s excellent news. I don’t think anyone cares about short forms or differing stock as long as their train runs.
5 v 10 (as some of the Swanseas were Friday) can get very busy
 

JN114

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Anyone know if the Newbury shuttle is a c2c 387 today?

Yeah 387302 on Newburys today.

From tomorrow they are on their own set of diagrams, 2 diagrams for 3 units encompassing solely Newbury work; so subject to usual caveats expect them to be a permanent feature for the time being.

As to the various questions as to why they’re only allowed on Newburys - it’s down to the SDO implementation on the c2c sets. GWR/HEx went over to a Beacon system with GPS backup a couple of years ago. The leading unit in a multiple formation is the “master” for SDO release; so a set formed up 73xx+71xx, would not be able to make use of the beacons, so a GPS release would have to happen instead; which due to inaccuracies of GPS and the way the database is now set up after the adoption of the Beacon system would mean only doors on the front unit would be unlocked - unnecessarily restrictive on the 8/9+ coach platforms of the Thames Valley. The only self-contained 4 car diagrams for 387s are the Newbury shuttles; so the quick-and-dirty way of ensuring they stay on them has been to slap the Newburys only restriction on them. They are authorised by the company ECS wherever a 387 is already allowed to go, and they can also run in multiple with “Classic” 387s ECS only.

Whilst they are only on temporary loan, it is not for GWR to start modifying the trains to get around those restrictions. If the loan does become permanent as has been rumoured elsewhere, then it’s a different story and we’d likely see some vinyl and SDO mods.

Hopefully that can draw a line under the 387/3 discussion.

***

Lots of 80x transfers back and forth today - some of the outstabled sets from when this all kicked off a week ago coming back to depot; and diagrams for tomorrow onward require 1x Hereford, 1x Worcester and 3x Oxford (good) outstablers. It’s been a tumultuous week; but there’s a degree of normality on the horizon; and good to see the Swindon 387s are likely to stay for at least another week.
 
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Yeah 387302 on Newburys today.

From tomorrow they are on their own set of diagrams, 2 diagrams for 3 units encompassing solely Newbury work; so subject to usual caveats expect them to be a permanent feature for the time being.

As to the various questions as to why they’re only allowed on Newburys - it’s down to the SDO implementation on the c2c sets. GWR/HEx went over to a Beacon system with GPS backup a couple of years ago. The leading unit in a multiple formation is the “master” for SDO release; so a set formed up 73xx+71xx, would not be able to make use of the beacons, so a GPS release would have to happen instead; which due to inaccuracies of GPS and the way the database is now set up after the adoption of the Beacon system would mean only doors on the front unit would be unlocked - unnecessarily restrictive on the 8/9+ coach platforms of the Thames Valley. The only self-contained 4 car diagrams for 387s are the Newbury shuttles; so the quick-and-dirty way of ensuring they stay on them has been to slap the Newburys only restriction on them. They are authorised by the company ECS wherever a 387 is already allowed to go, and they can also run in multiple with “Classic” 387s ECS only.

Whilst they are only on temporary loan, it is not for GWR to start modifying the trains to get around those restrictions. If the loan does become permanent as has been rumoured elsewhere, then it’s a different story and we’d likely see some vinyl and SDO mods.

Hopefully that can draw a line under the 387/3 discussion.

***

Lots of 80x transfers back and forth today - some of the outstabled sets from when this all kicked off a week ago coming back to depot; and diagrams for tomorrow onward require 1x Hereford, 1x Worcester and 3x Oxford (good) outstablers. It’s been a tumultuous week; but there’s a degree of normality on the horizon; and good to see the Swindon 387s are likely to stay for at least another week.

Thank you for the comprehensive description. In theory, would a C2C unit be permitted in the middle of a fixed 12-car formation since that unit will never be the master? I appreciate that on the normal diagrams that there are no fixed all day 12-car sets, but the Swindon extras have been operating like that. However, if the Swindon 387s are only for another week then perhaps it is not worth the extra work of having to consider it.
 

JN114

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Thank you for the comprehensive description. In theory, would a C2C unit be permitted in the middle of a fixed 12-car formation since that unit will never be the master? I appreciate that on the normal diagrams that there are no fixed all day 12-car sets, but the Swindon extras have been operating like that. However, if the Swindon 387s are only for another week then perhaps it is not worth the extra work of having to consider it.

Would it be technically possible - yes absolutely. It would of course also “work” as the rear set in a 8 car. But it still isn’t going to happen as there is a very clear set of instructions on what they can and cannot be used for. And that is solo, Newbury work only.

The Swindon 387s were fixed 12 last week as they were arranged/organised by control, and with all the other firefighting we were doing it was just easier to keep them as 12s on their own diagrams. Now that train planning have taken over the reigns it’s likely to get more complex; but also much more efficient so there shouldn’t result in short forms, last minute crewing complications and so forth. Within the normal sphere of operations there aren’t really any diagrams suitable for boxing in a 4 car both ends all day - at some point you expose the middle set.

Anyway, if you’ll excuse the back-seat moderating that really is enough 387/3 chat now. Feel free to tag me into a new thread if there’s more.
 

Bikeman78

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Too be fair that isn't true. Imagine travelling London to Cornwall, in high summer with the kids and loads of luggage and you get a 5 car , lose your reservations, cannot sit together , and potentially no seat at all. Meanwhile you see a 9 car set glide out of Paddington , bound for Swansea half empty. I think this summer it goes without saying 9s and 10s will be needed on many Cornish trains not short forms, and I have every faith that GWR will allocate stock as such!
I'd be happy enough with 387s to Cardiff which would free up IETs. I did some of the Swindon workings. The ride is lively at 110 mph (reminded me of a 4CEP on the Brighton fast!) but who cares so long as they keep time.
 

Clarence Yard

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59 IET sets available for traffic on GWR today, up 10 from yesterday and with more to follow today. It’s slowly getting back to some sense of normality.
 

sonic2009

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Anyone know the reason behind the set swap at Edinburgh tonight on the 1632 Inverness?
 

Bikeman78

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I need to travel between Reading and Cardiff approximately fifteen times per year starting in the summer and I intend to make use of the IETs first class, so you can keep your 387s on the Swindon workings, thanks ;)
I get where you are coming from but if using 387s on the Cardiffs means the difference between hourly and half hourly, I'll take the 387s. It's a moot point at the moment because the Cardiff terminators aren't running anyway.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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I get where you are coming from but if using 387s on the Cardiffs means the difference between hourly and half hourly, I'll take the 387s. It's a moot point at the moment because the Cardiff terminators aren't running anyway.

It would certainly be a useful backup in the case of further IET availability issues, to avoid short forms of summer services.
 

robbeech

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I need to travel between Reading and Cardiff approximately fifteen times per year starting in the summer and I intend to make use of the IETs first class, so you can keep your 387s on the Swindon workings, thanks ;)
I’d take a 142 Reading to Cardiff instead of a Bus. Sadly, the railway will focus on A to B rather than keeping people on their preferred traction.
 

800001

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Anyone know the reason behind the set swap at Edinburgh tonight on the 1632 Inverness?
Will be a daily occurance going forward, it is to enable the unit to have the safety checks each day.
So a fresh set, which has had its safety check completed takes over for the last leg to Inverness. As there is not enough time at Inverness to complete the new checks required to check for cracks.
 

43096

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As there is not enough time at Inverness to complete the new checks required to check for cracks.
I'm not buying that as the reason. The Chieftain arrives in Inverness just after 8pm and leaves just before 8am the next morning, so it has nearly 12 hours of down time, which is far more than many other sets have on depot. So what's the real reason? Detachi want the checks done on an East Coast depot? ScotRail asking too much money for the checks?

As ever, it's yet another example of the railway doing things for its own convenience rather than what is best for passengers. What this means is that the Chieftain is no longer a through service - might just as well not run it north of Edinburgh and send it to EC to have its checks done...
 

ABB125

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I’d take a 142 Reading to Cardiff instead of a Bus. Sadly, the railway will focus on A to B rather than keeping people on their preferred traction.
I'd pay good money* for a Reading-Cardiff trip on a pacer! :D

*Split at all the necessary locations to minimise cost, of course...
 

fgwrich

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I'm not buying that as the reason. The Chieftain arrives in Inverness just after 8pm and leaves just before 8am the next morning, so it has nearly 12 hours of down time, which is far more than many other sets have on depot. So what's the real reason? Detachi want the checks done on an East Coast depot? ScotRail asking too much money for the checks?

As ever, it's yet another example of the railway doing things for its own convenience rather than what is best for passengers. What this means is that the Chieftain is no longer a through service - might just as well not run it north of Edinburgh and send it to EC to have its checks done...
But do they actually go into the ScotRail depot, or at they stabled in the Station overnight? In which case, It might make it a bit more difficult for an engineer to check them over whilst they are sat in the platform. Equally, Hitachi may be doing something like NDT on them and checking in specific areas, which again may have to be depot checked (and they may have the specific equipment for it) - it also saves ScotRail having to train their engineers to look out for what Hitachi are looking at.
 
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