Ferry Services, shipping and Maritime Discussion

[berneyarms]

Yeah i was thinking more internationally
I know there used to be ferries to Iceland , Norway , Sweden , Denmark and Germany

Arguably the Channel Islands & the Isle of Man are international!!

 

[stut]

It is possible to travel as a foot passenger on that route, but it is very niche and not easy to book or sort the logistics...

UKBF have stopped all private immigration clearance at Immingham now, so you'd basically need to be pre-declared as a haulier. You'd *really* have to want to do it...

 

[pitdiver]

I liked the old Weymouth Harbour Channel Islands terminal in the station building. I'm sure it hadn't changed since the 1930's

 

[satisnek]

The Gosport Ferry gives a decent opportunity for a harbour crossing for peanuts, and their fleet now comprises three newbuilds, the 50 year old 'Queens' now both having moved on to new lives on the Thames carting drunken partygoers back and forth.

Thanks for the info, it's good to know that the old girls are still going I've known these two since a very early age and would certainly become involved in preservation should this ever arise. It's a sobering fact that they have connected with three generations of EMU at Portsmouth Harbour!

 

[BestWestern]

Thanks for the info, it's good to know that the old girls are still going I've known these two since a very early age and would certainly become involved in preservation should this ever arise. It's a sobering fact that they have connected with three generations of EMU at Portsmouth Harbour!

Still going, but not as we know them!

 

[satisnek]

Still going, but not as we know them!

Oh dear. But still recognisable though!

 

[AlterEgo]

UKBF have stopped all private immigration clearance at Immingham now, so you'd basically need to be pre-declared as a haulier. You'd *really* have to want to do it...

That is a shame, because that route was exceptionally niche!

 

[telstarbox]

I have a road atlas from the early 1990s which shows a ferry service across the Thames Estuary between Chatham and Southend. Does anyone have any info on this service?

 

[telstarbox]

Had a go on the Thames Clipper free trial from London to Gravesend this evening. I think most passengers were genuine commuters, although it felt like a railtour with people taking photos from the rear deck and making use of the bar!

The 'Aurora' was well loaded and we enjoyed a spirited run downstream after the last pickup at Canary Wharf.

Total run from Embankment to Gravesend was 70 minutes. That's a bit slower than a train from Charing Cross but from Canary Wharf it would be more competitive than the existing coach or train+DLR options.

If it does become permanent I think it could have a bit of potential as a tourist route - there's a lot of 'stuff' to see from the Cutty Sark to planes landing at LCY. Of course the pricing and timings will be key.

Also a reminder that the lower Thames is very much still a working river.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Given that any rail option regardless of via Z1 or DLR to Woolwitch or Lewisham takes over 75 minutes or so unless forking out for HS1 then Canary to Gravesend, which I would think is somewhere in the region of 40 minutes by river becomes very attractive and the option to use it if the SE metro falls over in central London would be good.

 

[telstarbox]

Although Crossrail is also round the corner and that may be extended to Gravesend at some point.

 

[Blindtraveler]

True, but another, potentially even slower stopping service to Gravesend is clearly not what its residents want given that every time I use a gravesend terminater the numbers are in single figures by the time it gets there and even the Gillingham services are half full or less at that stage in the trip.

By contrast a few weeks ago I caught a 395 which went from Full and Standing to just full after Gravesend so the need for speed this service offers and that Thames Clippers would offer to people not starting in Z1 is clearly attractive to the local populous and I would considder using it myself if wanting East London without the price tag of High Speed in the peek.

 

[theageofthetra]

Had a go on the Thames Clipper free trial from London to Gravesend this evening. I think most passengers were genuine commuters, although it felt like a railtour with people taking photos from the rear deck and making use of the bar!

The 'Aurora' was well loaded and we enjoyed a spirited run downstream after the last pickup at Canary Wharf.

Total run from Embankment to Gravesend was 70 minutes. That's a bit slower than a train from Charing Cross but from Canary Wharf it would be more competitive than the existing coach or train+DLR options.

If it does become permanent I think it could have a bit of potential as a tourist route - there's a lot of 'stuff' to see from the Cutty Sark to planes landing at LCY. Of course the pricing and timings will be key.

Also a reminder that the lower Thames is very much still a working river.

Yes an excellent trip. I do think that they have missed the boat (literally) by waiting 2 years for a new vessel. By then Thameslink will be running to Gillingham + Crossrail will reduce overcrowding further up the line.

Where there could be an interest is in serving new housing areas at Barking Riverside etc. Despite being relatively close to London as we saw yesterday there are great tracts of post industrial land along the Thames ripe for housing.

Re serving Canary Wharf they need another pier on the east side of the Isle of Dogs to serve the newer offices/flats being completed on that side- the walk is too far from the existing pier.

The MD mentioned that Aurora was being chartered after our run to serve the German cruise ship moored at Tilbury as it was unable to sail that night due to the impending storm. The travel company were offering a free cruise up to London using Aurora.

This is another huge potentially lucrative market. A large cruise ship like that could easily require 20+ coaches to take guests up to central London. I know I'd rather experience London arriving on Thames Clippers than sitting on a coach in traffic on the A13!

 

[BestWestern]

Those Thames Clippers don't half shift! The blast of acceleration from standing to cruising speed is very impressive indeed! Almost had a bit of a Clarkson moment

 

[grid56126]

I would imagine most people going further than that would prefer to get there by quicker means, unless they've got 40 tons of freight to shift!

My good lady and I have used Brittany Ferries Portsmouth to Bilbao route a few times now, on Cap Finistere. It's a 24hour crossing minimum, but we like it. Load the car at home, unload wherever we end up. No faffing at check ins at airports or worrying about baggage allowances. No faffing with a hire company and all the pit falls of that. The other option of going via shorter crossings and the long drive down through France is a cheaper option but I prefer someone else to convey me there!

We have become a bit addicted to the Sunday night sailing out which is a two night crossing that has a crew change in Roscoff and then skirts along the French coast rather than crossing the Bay of Biscay so becomes a pleasant relaxing mini cruise. Yes it eats a day of the holiday up but we make it part of the holiday.

 

[Blindtraveler]

This is a regular sail by my parents and their caravan 2 for similar reasons as it allows plenty of relax time after the long drive from Scotland.

 

[theageofthetra]

Those Thames Clippers don't half shift! The blast of acceleration from standing to cruising speed is very impressive indeed! Almost had a bit of a Clarkson moment

Tassies finest. Must use a stack of fuel though.

 

[dgl]

Tassies finest. Must use a stack of fuel though.

Well the Condor incats although much larger has fuel consumption in gallons per mile so they will be lower in fuel consumption but gallons per mile will be impressive.

One interesting thing is that they ate at their most fuel efficient with all engines running, and if an engine goes down the fuel consumption rises a surprising amount.

 

[kevconnor]

Surprised no one thus far has made much mention of Holyhead. Since I traverse the Irish sea quite frequently I have used most* of the crossing from England/Wales to Irish Republic. Thoughts are below.

Wales

Fishguard
A nice port and quite compact, good for foot passengers (please see Holyhead below). a bit out of the way and harder to reach than others including Pembroke. Been a few years since used the boats from here so can't say what it is like to travel on.

Pembroke
Nicest thing I can say is it is functional, port is never going to win any RIBA awards but I don't think it is going for that. well enough ran albeit could do with making it less drafty. I've done the walk from the train station and agree it is not the most convenient. I was fine with it at the time as 22 y/o student with a rucksack but wouldn't think it suitable for all. Been a few years since used the boats from here so can't say what it is like to travel on.

Holyhead
Well connected (now) by road and rail with frequent services. Better for foot passengers previously when Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire was run by the HSS. Would be better if timings of trains were better and driving by car would be useful if was some reasonable way to allow port traffic to directly access to A55 but still far better than previously when, as was then, B&I Lines point of entry was accessible by going through the town. There is quite a distance between the terminal building and the boats which can be a pain as require access via bus which in the case of Stena only boards after all other vehicles and makes boarding and offloading rather slow. Boats, whilst sometimes busy, are always well maintained and having travelled in all weathers can say they do travel in most weathers (do still have memories of being stuck at North Wall for 2 days waiting for weather to calm down and be able to sail). It is also usefully connected to the town centre with the Celtic Gateway Bridge.

England

Birkenhead
Used this frequently in the days of Norfolk Lines to north wall, a very nice service once on it and good timing for overnight sailing left Birkenhead at 10pm arrived at 5am. Had the advantage of allowing foot passengers unlike P&O from Liverpool. With services of this nature if you are driving you are loaded on early on the upper deck and then there is a wait before all other vehicles are loaded on lower decks. which works against you in the opposite when offloading you can be waiting up to an hour after the official arrival time before are able to get going on the road. service on board is good. meals are provided for and whilst choice is more limited compared to other ferries quality is good and good portions. got a cabin for overnight sailing which may have been shared, I never did as was normally travelling with family, friend or partner. Good, comfortable beds in clean rooms. Did always have the worst customs officials I have come across, travelling back for a funeral by car with brother and sister and quizzed for 10 mins on details of funeral, half expected them to ask for us to show them the body, they carried on until the point they spoke to my brother asked him what he did, when informing them he was a solicitor they surprisingly let us go quite quickly after that.

Liverpool
Much of what can be said above for Birkenhead can be also said of Liverpool. Detraction being for those who don;t drive is it is not possible for foot passengers to use. Has some good prices for day time sailings if can put up with being on boat from 9am - 5pm. But is good timings on evening service (3pm - 10pm) when travelling up the country in Ireland to get home and saves the drive from Holyhead if live in North of England.

Heysham
For as well versed as I am at traversing the Irish Sea I am ashamed to say whilst I knew of Sea Trucks I never even knew they were bookable by none freight, this I will be correcting next month when travelling over from Heysham to north wall so will report back on how I find the sailing. Initially however pricing was good (£120 single) and timing works OK for me (depart at 3am arrive at 10am).

Ireland

dun laoghaire
Was always the most well connected for foot passengers with the train station connected to the Dart and brought you straight back into the centre of Dublin. the terminal was quite small for the HSS which attracted quite a lot of foot passengers. Was also an ackward place as a driver to come into as was before the M50 was extended and the town got quite busy each time boat came in (like holyhead did)

Rosslare
Well laid out but remote and not close by to any significant towns, used it as a coach passenger when heading to Waterford or Cork so cant say I seem much of what the port itself was like.

Dublin (North Wall)
Now made up of the two main 'terminals' for irish Ferries and Stena. It is quite isolated from the city centre for foot passengers being a good 3 miles from Busaras, there are busses that run and the Luas runs to within a mile but not close enough to consider using it, would be helpful if it was extended to run to the port but it a personal pipe dream which will never happen. Driving to or from the port is a lot easier now the port tunnel has been built, just bloody expensive in tolls for people heading down to the Kingdom as I often do.

Irish Ferries is the more convenient terminal being right next to the boarding point with the gang way for access to the ship. also has the busses and taxis departing right next to it and has the cafe on site.
Stena is not much more than a well kitted out portacabin and not much for foot passengers, seems to be the way with ports now.

 

[AlterEgo]

On the subject of ports, I used Portsmouth last year and was pleasantly surprised at how modern and clean the terminal was. It had the feel of a small regional airport. This was the Brittany Ferries terminal; I was heading to Santander on the Pont-Aven.

 

[BestWestern]

On the subject of ports, I used Portsmouth last year and was pleasantly surprised at how modern and clean the terminal was. It had the feel of a small regional airport. This was the Brittany Ferries terminal; I was heading to Santander on the Pont-Aven.

There is only the one terminal now, with operators having their respective check-in desks.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Iv not been since the new building opened but other than the high price for food and drink (solved easy enough by the petrol station down the road) Iv heared nothing but good things.

 

[route101]

Surprised no one thus far has made much mention of Holyhead. Since I traverse the Irish sea quite frequently I have used most* of the crossing from England/Wales to Irish Republic. Thoughts are below.

Wales

Fishguard
A nice port and quite compact, good for foot passengers (please see Holyhead below). a bit out of the way and harder to reach than others including Pembroke. Been a few years since used the boats from here so can't say what it is like to travel on.

Pembroke
Nicest thing I can say is it is functional, port is never going to win any RIBA awards but I don't think it is going for that. well enough ran albeit could do with making it less drafty. I've done the walk from the train station and agree it is not the most convenient. I was fine with it at the time as 22 y/o student with a rucksack but wouldn't think it suitable for all. Been a few years since used the boats from here so can't say what it is like to travel on.

Holyhead
Well connected (now) by road and rail with frequent services. Better for foot passengers previously when Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire was run by the HSS. Would be better if timings of trains were better and driving by car would be useful if was some reasonable way to allow port traffic to directly access to A55 but still far better than previously when, as was then, B&I Lines point of entry was accessible by going through the town. There is quite a distance between the terminal building and the boats which can be a pain as require access via bus which in the case of Stena only boards after all other vehicles and makes boarding and offloading rather slow. Boats, whilst sometimes busy, are always well maintained and having travelled in all weathers can say they do travel in most weathers (do still have memories of being stuck at North Wall for 2 days waiting for weather to calm down and be able to sail). It is also usefully connected to the town centre with the Celtic Gateway Bridge.

England

Birkenhead
Used this frequently in the days of Norfolk Lines to north wall, a very nice service once on it and good timing for overnight sailing left Birkenhead at 10pm arrived at 5am. Had the advantage of allowing foot passengers unlike P&O from Liverpool. With services of this nature if you are driving you are loaded on early on the upper deck and then there is a wait before all other vehicles are loaded on lower decks. which works against you in the opposite when offloading you can be waiting up to an hour after the official arrival time before are able to get going on the road. service on board is good. meals are provided for and whilst choice is more limited compared to other ferries quality is good and good portions. got a cabin for overnight sailing which may have been shared, I never did as was normally travelling with family, friend or partner. Good, comfortable beds in clean rooms. Did always have the worst customs officials I have come across, travelling back for a funeral by car with brother and sister and quizzed for 10 mins on details of funeral, half expected them to ask for us to show them the body, they carried on until the point they spoke to my brother asked him what he did, when informing them he was a solicitor they surprisingly let us go quite quickly after that.

Liverpool
Much of what can be said above for Birkenhead can be also said of Liverpool. Detraction being for those who don;t drive is it is not possible for foot passengers to use. Has some good prices for day time sailings if can put up with being on boat from 9am - 5pm. But is good timings on evening service (3pm - 10pm) when travelling up the country in Ireland to get home and saves the drive from Holyhead if live in North of England.

Heysham
For as well versed as I am at traversing the Irish Sea I am ashamed to say whilst I knew of Sea Trucks I never even knew they were bookable by none freight, this I will be correcting next month when travelling over from Heysham to north wall so will report back on how I find the sailing. Initially however pricing was good (£120 single) and timing works OK for me (depart at 3am arrive at 10am).

Ireland

dun laoghaire
Was always the most well connected for foot passengers with the train station connected to the Dart and brought you straight back into the centre of Dublin. the terminal was quite small for the HSS which attracted quite a lot of foot passengers. Was also an ackward place as a driver to come into as was before the M50 was extended and the town got quite busy each time boat came in (like holyhead did)

Rosslare
Well laid out but remote and not close by to any significant towns, used it as a coach passenger when heading to Waterford or Cork so cant say I seem much of what the port itself was like.

Dublin (North Wall)
Now made up of the two main 'terminals' for irish Ferries and Stena. It is quite isolated from the city centre for foot passengers being a good 3 miles from Busaras, there are busses that run and the Luas runs to within a mile but not close enough to consider using it, would be helpful if it was extended to run to the port but it a personal pipe dream which will never happen. Driving to or from the port is a lot easier now the port tunnel has been built, just bloody expensive in tolls for people heading down to the Kingdom as I often do.

Irish Ferries is the more convenient terminal being right next to the boarding point with the gang way for access to the ship. also has the busses and taxis departing right next to it and has the cafe on site.
Stena is not much more than a well kitted out portacabin and not much for foot passengers, seems to be the way with ports now.

Surprised you got stopped by customs at Birky

 

[kevconnor]

Surprised you got stopped by customs at Birky

In fairness it was a few years ago and the lad looked like he was on a YTS scheme. Had a uniform on him that he looked like he'd borrowed from his dad.

 

[sheff1]

Since I traverse the Irish sea quite frequently I have used most* of the crossing from England/Wales to Irish Republic. Thoughts are below.

Did you ever use Mostyn ? I was about to when they took the service off

 

[apinnard]

Yes an excellent trip. I do think that they have missed the boat (literally) by waiting 2 years for a new vessel. By then Thameslink will be running to Gillingham + Crossrail will reduce overcrowding further up the line.

Where there could be an interest is in serving new housing areas at Barking Riverside etc. Despite being relatively close to London as we saw yesterday there are great tracts of post industrial land along the Thames ripe for housing.

Re serving Canary Wharf they need another pier on the east side of the Isle of Dogs to serve the newer offices/flats being completed on that side- the walk is too far from the existing pier.

The MD mentioned that Aurora was being chartered after our run to serve the German cruise ship moored at Tilbury as it was unable to sail that night due to the impending storm. The travel company were offering a free cruise up to London using Aurora.

This is another huge potentially lucrative market. A large cruise ship like that could easily require 20+ coaches to take guests up to central London. I know I'd rather experience London arriving on Thames Clippers than sitting on a coach in traffic on the A13!

I think the plan is that they will look at two new catamarans that are capable of 40knts service speed, should they decide to go ahead with Gravesend.

The current boats are mostly (except the smaller River Runners and the Hydrocats) rated for 28-30knts service speed.

 

[route101]

In fairness it was a few years ago and the lad looked like he was on a YTS scheme. Had a uniform on him that he looked like he'd borrowed from his dad.

Must of been random or one off thing . Didnt think they had regular customs check between UK and Ireland

 

[kevconnor]

Must of been random or one off thing . Didnt think they had regular customs check between UK and Ireland

Customs checks definitely do happen, I've been checked at Holyhead and Liverpool as well.i can understand on those occasions as it has normally been when driving over on my own and I guess I may fit some kind of profile for thinking I am intent in some kind of nefarious activity. (I'm really not) but that time at Birkenhead was beyond the pale.

 

[Blindtraveler]

How much time should you allow at Bercanhead for foot passenger checkin? I note there are 2 or 3 buses from Hamilton Square to the port but if one caught the earliest one of an evening would you simply be hanging about in a waiting room/passenger lounge for ages or can you get onboard and dine/drink/go to bed?

 

[kevconnor]

Did you ever Stensuse Mostyn ? I was about to when they took the service off

I used it once. I was a passenger in the car so can't remember much of what the port was like as I slept through most of the journey. The boat service itself was quite ramshackle. The only reasonable point of reference I can think of is quite niche but if anyone had any experience of sailing on B&I lines in the early 90's you may have sailed on Isle Of Innisfree, it was a charter ship which had seen better days and which was being run into the ground (quite nearly literally on one unfortunate occasion at Holyhead due to a failed engine and a strong side wind). It was never going to be a service which could have made a success of it, the M56/A494 had not yet been upgraded but I think the A5/A55 bypass has just been opened making holyhead more attractive for those willing to drive that way but Liverpool/Birkenhead were still the better for unmanned freight.

How much time should you allow at Bercanhead for foot passenger checkin? I note there are 2 or 3 buses from Hamilton Square to the port but if one caught the earliest one of an evening would you simply be hanging about in a waiting room/passenger lounge for ages or can you get onboard and dine/drink/go to bed?

I was only a foot passenger myself once and it was a bit of poor planning. Driving a car from Sheffield to heading over thinking it would make it to Tullamore when the car couldn't even make it as far as Tintwistle. I remember leaving Hamilton Square in Birkenhead and getting a bus to go to the port but on leaving the bus still having to walk about a mile to get to the port, the terminal building was never much a coffee and soft drinks vending machine and a TV which may (or may not) be showing sky news is about as good as it gets. It was always clean and warm however which others (Holyhead) don't always seem to manage.