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Finalists - Best UK 'High Speed' train

Out of these 3 finalists, which one would you crown the best UK High Speed train?

  • Class 43 HST

    Votes: 140 46.5%
  • Class 91 IC 225

    Votes: 57 18.9%
  • Class 390 Pendolino

    Votes: 104 34.6%

  • Total voters
    301
  • Poll closed .
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Neptune

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I too loved 101s, particularly the forward view but also the sound etc. And the forward view, it turns out, actually taught me quite well how to drive one when for my 30th birthday I finally realised my dream of having a go!
I always preferred 110’s. We had 101, 104, 108 and 111’s on local services round here also but it was always the 110’s for me. Don’t know why.
Kids today: voting for a unit. World is finished.
I’m far from a kid but always liked units as well as everything else.

Summing up a scene from my youth at Bradford Exchange (before it was renamed) you could have an HST on a London or Swansea service (sometimes could be in the station together), various local DMU’s, maybe a loco (25, 31, 45 or 47) on mk1’s on a Scarborough and the 03 pilot pottering about. That to me is my pinnacle which is why I’m ok with all kinds of stock.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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This is why the opinions of enthusiasts are worthless in the real world.
Exactly. Slam doors may be fun for some trainspotters but they’re a nuisance, time-consuming and potentially dangerous. I’m surprised there were as few deaths as there were over the years, with the many mindless fools with their heads out of the droplights like an ugly Labrador licking the wind.

Surely not us agreeing on something :p
 

xotGD

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Exactly. Slam doors may be fun for some trainspotters but they’re a nuisance, time-consuming and potentially dangerous. I’m surprised there were as few deaths as there were over the years, with the many mindless fools with their heads out of the droplights like an ugly Labrador licking the wind.

Surely not us agreeing on something :p
Automatic doors: Trap & drag. Now that is dangerous.
 

XAM2175

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Surely not us agreeing on something :p
When you say "ugly Labradors" I hope you're allowing for the existence of non-ugly Labradors, otherwise we'll have ourselves an all-new disagreement :p

Automatic doors: Trap & drag. Now that is dangerous.
For automatic doors, yes. For power-operated doors - which is the progression from slam-doors that we're implying - the risk is mitigated by the performance of proper dispatch procedures.
 

Irascible

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When I had to spend hours sitting on a rucksack in a vestibule because the train was that full for over two hours, I quite appreciated opening door windows. I generally appreciate a seat more so having more seats in moder modern trains is generally great, but I'm not sure modern seats are actually more comfortable :p at least there's aircon.

Exactly. Slam doors may be fun for some trainspotters but they’re a nuisance, time-consuming and potentially dangerous. I’m surprised there were as few deaths as there were over the years, with the many mindless fools with their heads out of the droplights like an ugly Labrador licking the wind.

If the punters know what they're doing they were also pretty quick, and maybe there were as few deaths as there were because the potential danger rather outweighs the actual danger? I'm not advocating a return to the things, but let's not start heading into mild hysteria.
 

4F89

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HST is a clear winner for me, a gamechanger that lead to the high speed revolution in the UK.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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It read to me like a claim that the 390 is the fastest accelerating.
No I understood him to say the 80x was fastest accelerating, to which I understood is the case. They are faster accelerating than 390s. I still like 390s more though, although Avanti are enjoying trying to ruin them for me with standard premium and this cheap looking refurb on the cards!
 

Retorus

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How on earth are there so many votes for the Pendolino? It's not bad....for a unit!
As someone who has used them a lot, I think they're really very good. Anecdotal evidence from other, less rail-enthusiastic passengers also suggests they're pretty popular with the general public.
 

DarloRich

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How on earth are there so many votes for the Pendolino? It's not bad....for a unit!

I have regularly travelled on all three "finalists". The Pendolino is easily the worst: Cramped, uncomfortable, dingy,

But as far as the kids ( and there are a lot on this board) are concerned it bends over in corners so must be cool. Clueless. They have no idea.
 

Purple Orange

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I have regularly travelled on all three "finalists". The Pendolino is easily the worst: Cramped, uncomfortable, dingy,

But as far as the kids ( and there are a lot on this board) are concerned it bends over in corners so must be cool. Clueless. They have no idea.
Another rose tinted HST hipster I see!
 

DarloRich

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Another rose tinted HST hipster I see!

Hardly a hipster. They are worse than kids!

I do, however, have some experiance of travel and know what is a comfortable train and what isn't. The Pendolino isn't a comfortable train. I do acknowledge that if you are 14 you have never really travelled on a proper train so think what you have now is best. It isn't. Even if it does bend over in corners.
 

Bletchleyite

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Hardly a hipster. They are worse than kids!

I do, however, have some experiance of travel and know what is a comfortable train and what isn't. The Pendolino isn't a comfortable train. I do acknowledge that if you are 14 you have never really travelled on a proper train so think what you have now is best. It isn't. Even if it does bend over in corners.

I suppose that depends on the class. Standard is average to poor (though not the worst), First (and SP) are excellent.
 

DarloRich

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I suppose that depends on the class. Standard is average to poor (though not the worst), First (and SP) are excellent.

Seeing as I don't have railcard and only rarely get to travel in first class I can really only comment on second class. It is grim at times.

The seats in first are miles better but still not great, although the free wine is a very nice touch ;)
 

DustyBin

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If the punters know what they're doing they were also pretty quick, and maybe there were as few deaths as there were because the potential danger rather outweighs the actual danger? I'm not advocating a return to the things, but let's not start heading into mild hysteria.

At risk of making myself sound older than I am(!), the reality is that back then people took personal responsibility. Whilst I can understand somebody asking “what’s to stop you opening the wrong side door or opening it whilst the train is moving”, the answer is simply “common sense”. That’s not to say it never happened, but as you’ve alluded to the the (retrospective) perceived danger far outweighs the actual danger at the time.
 

Purple Orange

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Hardly a hipster. They are worse than kids!

I do, however, have some experiance of travel and know what is a comfortable train and what isn't. The Pendolino isn't a comfortable train. I do acknowledge that if you are 14 you have never really travelled on a proper train so think what you have now is best. It isn't. Even if it does bend over in corners.

I think a great many of us on here have a lot of experience of these trains. For my money the HST was and is awful. I remember the original interiors with the fixed arm rests, the worn out feeling to it all. Fast forward to when better seating was installed, there was still a tired feeling, which could be seen in the vestibules, the windows, toilets, doors. Everything about the train screams “sell me for scrap now”!

Wha is a ‘proper’ train? Is it something pulled by an engine at the front?
 

Mat17

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Seeing as I don't have railcard and only rarely get to travel in first class I can really only comment on second class. It is grim at times.

The seats in first are miles better but still not great, although the free wine is a very nice touch ;)
I never travel in first class, so all my assumptions on types of train come from second class only.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think a great many of us on here have a lot of experience of these trains. For my money the HST was and is awful. I remember the original interiors with the fixed arm rests, the worn out feeling to it all. Fast forward to when better seating was installed, there was still a tired feeling, which could be seen in the vestibules, the windows, toilets, doors. Everything about the train screams “sell me for scrap now”!

I think people forget that the 76 seat Mk3 (and for that matter Mk4) interiors were pretty poor (and the "original original" 72 seat layout not perfect due to the window alignment being off, very much like the Mk5a). Awful IC70 seats with collapsed sprung bases that tipped you forwards, fixed armrests and screws holding the net where your knees go. Poor legroom because of very thick seat backs. Horribly over-bright and under-diffused lighting. Nasty grey and red utilitarian (but very 70s) colour scheme. They really were quite unpleasant (and First wasn't really that good until the coming of the Mk3b with better lighting and seats), and I thought it a good day when a train of aircon Mk2s showed up instead.

Some of the refurbs, particularly those using the Grammer IC3000 seat, were excellent, by comparison. And while the Chiltern/WSMR refurbs used the rubbish original seats they are at least at First Class spacing.
 

Mat17

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At risk of making myself sound older than I am(!), the reality is that back then people took personal responsibility. Whilst I can understand somebody asking “what’s to stop you opening the wrong side door or opening it whilst the train is moving”, the answer is simply “common sense”. That’s not to say it never happened, but as you’ve alluded to the the (retrospective) perceived danger far outweighs the actual danger at the time.
I totally agree with this.
 

Bletchleyite

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At risk of making myself sound older than I am(!), the reality is that back then people took personal responsibility. Whilst I can understand somebody asking “what’s to stop you opening the wrong side door or opening it whilst the train is moving”, the answer is simply “common sense”. That’s not to say it never happened, but as you’ve alluded to the the (retrospective) perceived danger far outweighs the actual danger at the time.

The answer was of course the UIC standard folding door with door blocking and autoclose as everywhere apart from good old "not invented here" Britain had. The XP64 Mk1 set tried the door itself but didn't bother with the two key safety features noted. Fitting these way back in Mk2 days (and to everything since) would have saved both lives and countless delay minutes.
 

Purple Orange

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I think people forget that the 76 seat Mk3 (and for that matter Mk4) interiors were pretty poor (and the "original original" 72 seat layout not perfect due to the window alignment being off, very much like the Mk5a). Awful IC70 seats with collapsed sprung bases that tipped you forwards, fixed armrests and screws holding the net where your knees go. Poor legroom because of very thick seat backs. Horribly over-bright and under-diffused lighting. Nasty grey and red utilitarian (but very 70s) colour scheme. They really were quite unpleasant (and First wasn't really that good until the coming of the Mk3b with better lighting and seats), and I thought it a good day when a train of aircon Mk2s showed up instead.

Some of the refurbs, particularly those using the Grammer IC3000 seat, were excellent, by comparison. And while the Chiltern/WSMR refurbs used the rubbish original seats they are at least at First Class spacing.
Oh definitely some revisionism from the HST hipsters (I think I might stick to that term!). Back when I used the ECML an awful lot between Newcastle & York (GNER & Virgin XC days), I’d actively go for the IC225. If time was an issue and a HST bellowed up, I’d have a deflated feel precisely because of the way the dated interior made me feel when using the train.
 
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