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First Greater Glasgow

PaulMc7

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Always been for the 6 being split into 2 routes to be quite honest given how bad it's capable of being in terms of reliability.

Would there be enough space to terminate the 6 with the 6A at George Square? The split I'd go with is:

Clydebank to George Square
Renfrew Street to Calderwood
 
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overthewater

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At least they are making an effort to promote the network before lockdown ends.
 
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sannox

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Why haven't there even just cut the route in Half? IE make the 6 only operate City - East Kilbride, or better still convert it to single decker and combine it with No4, which would also operate every 10mins and thus you would have a bus every 5mins down to Clarkston ?

It hurts the journeys across the city centre, mainly into the west end from the south side (although I have seen people do it from Eset Kilbride to West End!).

Splitting routes into the city centre hurts those in the areas around the city centre as you have to connect which people often find a pain.

That said the 6 route is a looong route and it could be split- perhaps running the 6A to Mount Florida/Cathcart and terminating the EK 6 at Charing Cross.
 
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route101

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I've done the 6 from West End to East Kilbride, no big deal. I think the 4 has traditionally allowed a direct link from Southside to the university. Plus these two areas ( West End and Southside) are the in my opinion the most important outwith the City centre.
 

PaulMc7

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If you gave everyone the option of what puts them off buses more out of bad reliability or having to get 2 buses I wonder what people hate more. For me personally, it's always been bad reliability but luckily I've always had so many options. Quite a few routes would probably need to be shortened and retimed to get the ideal network for reliability in Glasgow to be fair.

I think getting 2 buses to get somewhere is only a pain when 1 of the services that you require is unreliable which unfortunately over the years has been pretty common in Glasgow.
 

route101

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If you gave everyone the option of what puts them off buses more out of bad reliability or having to get 2 buses I wonder what people hate more. For me personally, it's always been bad reliability but luckily I've always had so many options. Quite a few routes would probably need to be shortened and retimed to get the ideal network for reliability in Glasgow to be fair.

I think getting 2 buses to get somewhere is only a pain when 1 of the services that you require is unreliable which unfortunately over the years has been pretty common in Glasgow.
I don't mind if I have to get two buses, as long as both services are frequent. When its a less frequent route its very risky, especially if your going to work.
 

Bus Lightyear

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Always been for the 6 being split into 2 routes to be quite honest given how bad it's capable of being in terms of reliability.

Would there be enough space to terminate the 6 with the 6A at George Square? The split I'd go with is:

Clydebank to George Square
Renfrew Street to Calderwood
This has been discussed on this forum before. There is no suitable on-street terminal point for the south side sector as Holland Street, Douglas Street and Renfrew Street across from the former the Scottish Television Studios are all taken up by other services. Splitting the route would be detrimental financially as operating costs would increase and revenue and passenger volume would take the hit which isn't ideal given the current climate.

Why haven't there even just cut the route in Half? IE make the 6 only operate City - East Kilbride, or better still convert it to single decker and combine it with No4, which would also operate every 10mins and thus you would have a bus every 5mins down to Clarkston ?
Running buses every 5 minutes to Clarkston in today's climate I'm afraid is way OTT.
 

Bus Lightyear

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The only low height doubles I recall going under Kilbowie Road Bridge were those used on the 6, which weren't at Dumbarton. The walkway at the Vale of Leven Hospital is long gone, Kilbowie is the only remaining obstacle for 'the one' but using Second Avenue does add a fair bit of journey time, particularly during the peak periods.
I remember the Kelvin Central service 3 group of services with Dennis Dominators and the Strathclyde's Buses 66A and 66B with LO types (Leyland Olympians) running under Kilbowie Road railway bridge. I can also remember some Central SMT double deckers going under that bridge.

Seat-belted Volvo Olympians appeared on the 206 from time to time when Dumbarton had a allocation of them, primarily for school work (linked image from the MSE062 Flickr collection). B9s appearing on it, while odd in the route's day-to-day operations, is hardly a new thing.


And the other major operators in the area over the years (McColl's, McGill's etc) have all used deckers on routes that passed through the town: McGill's with the 204X and McColl's with their local services in competition with First.
Strathclyde's Buses Leyland Atlanteans and Volvo Citybuses were regularly used on the 7 and 58 to Dumbarton and Balloch during the early years of deregulation. Unfortunately I'm unable to locate any photos.

Is there room in the Bus Station for a service to use?
But that will only add further costs ie bus station stance charges whilst removing travel opportunities.
 
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PaulMc7

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This has been discussed on this forum before. There is no suitable on-street terminal point for the south side sector as Holland Street, Douglas Street and Renfrew Street across from the former the Scottish Television Studios are all taken up by other services. Splitting the route would be detrimental financially as operating costs would increase and revenue and passenger volume would take the hit which isn't ideal given the current climate.


Running buses every 5 minutes to Clarkston in today's climate I'm afraid is way OTT.
The top of Hope Street beside the stop where the 6/6A stop currently is an option that isn't taken. The north end wouldn't need to be every 10 mins like pre-Covid either so you'd have made savings. Arguably every 15 mins off peak is enough for the 6 between the city centre and Clydebank. I've used it a lot over the years and the south side has always been busier.

If services aren't reliable then revenue will take an absolute battering anyway post-covid. That's going to be key to getting passenger numbers even close to pre-Covid where possible. If services aren't reliable it just won't happen.
 

Bus Lightyear

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The top of Hope Street beside the stop where the 6/6A stop currently is an option that isn't taken. The north end wouldn't need to be every 10 mins like pre-Covid either so you'd have made savings. Arguably every 15 mins off peak is enough for the 6 between the city centre and Clydebank. I've used it a lot over the years and the south side has always been busier
That is not a suitable terminus as other services use that stop frequently. To comply with regulations the words Bus Stand have to be painted on the road. If you cut the Clydebank end to every 15 minutes you'll cause an issue with bunching on Great Western Road if the Drumchapel service remains at every 10 minutes.
 

PaulMc7

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That is not a suitable terminus as other services use that stop frequently. To comply with regulations the words Bus Stand have to be painted on the road. If you cut the Clydebank end to every 15 minutes you'll cause an issue with bunching on Great Western Road if the Drumchapel service remains at every 10 minutes.
The 6A stops at it but that's pretty much it other than the 6. To be quite honest I'd probably reduce the 6A a bit too as that's the same as the 6 from what I've seen over the years. If the 6/6A were reliable passenger numbers probably would be far better but I've seen them get quieter each year despite using them a lot. There's been more than a handful of times I've waited 40/50 mins on a 6 because they get behind schedule and can never make it up
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
Regarding splitting the 6, I have previously mentioned a while ago something like:

Calderwood - Anniesland Cross
Clarkston Toll - Clydebank

That way, there would be an overlap with the common section being Clarkston Toll - Anniesland Cross, which would still provide direct links between the Cathcart Road/Victoria Road and Great Western Road.
 

PaulMc7

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I think the other problem with the 6 is the Anniesland to Clydebank section. With Yoker having all of the 1s except 1C and the 2 I think the frequency could be much lower too. The only time I see the 6 at that part of the route being really busy is school times

Another M service could work with say an every 20 mins frequency but Anniesland as an area isn't particularly great for terminus points unless you use Knightswood Secondary potentially for the 6 and Gartnavel again for another M service
 

Bus Lightyear

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Regarding splitting the 6, I have previously mentioned a while ago something like:

Calderwood - Anniesland Cross
Clarkston Toll - Clydebank

That way, there would be an overlap with the common section being Clarkston Toll - Anniesland Cross, which would still provide direct links between the Cathcart Road/Victoria Road and Great Western Road.
But that will only incur an increase in operating costs, quite substantially I'd imagine, and this can only be offset by an increase in revenue which reflects that. You've also got to consider the 6 and 6A relationship on GWR and the 4/5/6/7 in the southside.

Apologies if it seems like I'm pouring cold water over other folks ideas but I think we've got to be thinking realistically especially as we will likely be heading into the world of the unknown whenever we finally leave this pandemic behind.
 

PaulMc7

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But that will only incur an increase in operating costs, quite substantially I'd imagine, and this can only be offset by an increase in revenue which reflects that. You've also got to consider the 6 and 6A relationship on GWR and the 4/5/6/7 in the southside.

Apologies if it seems like I'm pouring cold water over other folks ideas but I think we've got to be thinking realistically especially as we will likely be heading into the world of the unknown whenever we finally leave this pandemic behind.
That's why I've mentioned frequency cuts in what I've suggested. I'm amazed the 6/6A never had them pre-pandemic to be quite honest because even at peak times when I've used the 6 it wasn't always that busy and beyond Anniesland it was exceptionally quiet at times.

It is pretty interesting that the 4/4A have been reduced a lot over the years given that the main part of their route is with the 6 which isn't too much busier at any point of the day.
 

Jordan Adam

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That's why I've mentioned frequency cuts in what I've suggested. I'm amazed the 6/6A never had them pre-pandemic to be quite honest because even at peak times when I've used the 6 it wasn't always that busy and beyond Anniesland it was exceptionally quiet at times.

It is pretty interesting that the 4/4A have been reduced a lot over the years given that the main part of their route is with the 6 which isn't too much busier at any point of the day.
Frequency cuts may reduce running costs but then you also risk losing passengers which in turn lowers revenue thus the reduced running costs become obsolete.

Even a small reduction can have a negative impact; a service here around a decade ago had the frequency reduced from every 10 minutes to every 12 minutes to help improve reliability (same PVR but with increased running times), in the end they ended up just adding an extra bus and putting it back to every 10 minutes as they found they were losing too much revenue due to the cut as another operator still had the 10 minute frequency so were taking more passengers since most concession pass users just go on a "i'll get whatever bus comes first" basis.
 
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Tom Gallacher

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The 6A stops at it but that's pretty much it other than the 6. To be quite honest I'd probably reduce the 6A a bit too as that's the same as the 6 from what I've seen over the years. If the 6/6A were reliable passenger numbers probably would be far better but I've seen them get quieter each year despite using them a lot. There's been more than a handful of times I've waited 40/50 mins on a 6 because they get behind schedule and can never make it up
I've always wondered why they changed the no 20 to a 6a. Anyone on here explain the logic?
 

PaulMc7

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I've always wondered why they changed the no 20 to a 6a. Anyone on here explain the logic?
I think it was just to fit in with the 6 more than anything but then the 21 was a thing. The 21 could have been a 17 to fit in with the 18 and it would have made sense
 

JumpinTrainz

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I don’t think very much of Simplicity made sense :lol: They had some good ideas with certain things but they could have did so much more with the renumbering of routes.
 

Tom Gallacher

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Yes, that one dosent make sense as its a separate route to the 6. If it was the 6A would run to East Kilbride.
I thought it might be so that in the branding literature and timetables they could, correctly, claim that the service ran at "up to ten minute intervals". This was only true in respect of the portion of the route that they both shared ie city centre to Anniesland. Misleading but probably not so much as to be regarded as duplicitous.
 

route101

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I don’t think very much of Simplicity made sense :lol: They had some good ideas with certain things but they could have did so much more with the renumbering of routes.
I thought it was unfinished. Least there has been stability in the network though no innovation or new routes since.
 
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Prior to Covid the 6 was mainly made up on B7RLEs and E300s. The E400s were being used on other routes out of Caledonia and Scotstoun. They have become more regular on the 6 again due to social distancing. I don’t know how long they’ll stay on that route once things start to return to “normal” whatever that may be.

As for the 1, there was talk on here a while back about them altering the route to accommodate E400MMCs but then Covid struck and I presume they scrapped that idea what with them branding the E300s. It’s a route which I always felt had to be looked at. It used to get crazy busy for the majority of the day but in particular peak times. The E300s and even B9TLs were standing room only by the time they got to Charing Cross. Deckers would have been a good shout but of course post pandemic who knows what passenger numbers will return to and I understand them not wanting to take such a big risk like that.
There was quite a few of them on the 2 today, I’ve posted a picture that I got today
 

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route101

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There was quite a few of them on the 2 today, I’ve posted a picture that I got today

I have noticed them on the 2 quite often as well. Maybe its a Saturday thing.

Seen a rare route other day, the Hillington 765 at Gorbals Cross. Surprised still to see that route still on the go.
 

JumpinTrainz

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I think everything’s just up in the air the now because of COVID. They are trying to get as many deckers on to core routes to help with social distancing. Even the 201 has deckers which was never the case.

The E400s are nice buses they need a little refurb but overall I like them. I wonder if they’ll stay with Glasgow or if they’ll be cascaded out with new buses coming in.
 

PaulMc7

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On the subject of reliability/ route length from the other day I was having a think back to 10/15 years ago and how the longest routes compare from then til now. It would be interesting to see older timetables for the longest routes then to see how long it took similar journeys back then and to see just how much of an impact that congestion has had in recent years.

I think back to routes like the old 18 route from East Kilbride to Summerston, the 20 from East Kilbride to Drumchapel or the 267 when it went beyond Hamilton to Newmains/Shotts for example.
 

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