First Greater Glasgow

[route101]

I've generally found First Glasgow and Scotland East vehicles to be much scruffier inside than those at First Aberdeen. Window etching in particular seems to be a real issue in Glasgow, something which thankfully is rarely seen here.

I was on the ex Aberdeen eclipse a few months ago. I noticed how cleaner it it was. Never seen window etching outside Glasgow, in Scotland.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I was on the ex Aberdeen eclipse a few months ago. I noticed how cleaner it it was. Never seen window etching outside Glasgow, in Scotland.

Yeah i've seen a few Glasgow drivers remark how much tidier the cabs are on Ex-Aberdeen 69110/122. In contrast many Aberdeen drivers have noticed how much more worn the cabs are on the 8 Ex-FSE B7RLEs when compared to the native examples.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I’ve never understood why First don’t refurbish their buses mid life. It’s like they have to be in dire straits before they’ll get a seat retrim and tidy up. They are notorious for doing the exterior but surely buses would be in much better condition and last a bit longer if they were just better looked after.

Most B7RLEs and B7TLs need a retrim. As do the low height E400s. The floors on them are always in great condition so it’s just a case of keeping the seats good and the grab rails etc. It’s always baffled me how First allow buses to be run to the ground.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I’ve never understood why First don’t refurbish their buses mid life. It’s like they have to be in dire straits before they’ll get a seat retrim and tidy up. They are notorious for doing the exterior but surely buses would be in much better condition and last a bit longer if they were just better looked after.

Most B7RLEs and B7TLs need a retrim. As do the low height E400s. The floors on them are always in great condition so it’s just a case of keeping the seats good and the grab rails etc. It’s always baffled me how First allow buses to be run to the ground.

Some of their vehicles have received mid-life refurbs; there was a programme in 2013/4 but it wasn't a blanket thing and it is often left to individual OpCos. If you were to look at the Eclipses that came from Hampshire to Livingston, you'd see that they are very smart.

Also, I'm not entirely sure that a number of the Geminis haven't had refurbs. Some examples that Glasgow sent to West of England had seats in remarkably good condition compared to native vehicles that hadn't been done and were only 18 months older. Mind you, the worst examples are now being refurbished following their cascade to Cornwall.

 

[PaulMc7]

From experience it seems to be a lot of the double deckers from 2003/04 and then the single deckers from 2005,2006 and 2007 that seem to be in the worst state. A lot of the double deckers don't sound like they'll last much longer either. They usually pop up on the 57/57A and 60/60A constantly when I use them too although the 60A I got today was a 38 branded bus which was a good surprise.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

From experience it seems to be a lot of the double deckers from 2003/04 and then the single deckers from 2005,2006 and 2007 that seem to be in the worst state. A lot of the double deckers don't sound like they'll last much longer either. They usually pop up on the 57/57A and 60/60A constantly when I use them too although the 60A I got today was a 38 branded bus which was a good surprise.

The oldest ones would be.

However, they have refurbished the B9s. Perhaps Covid will stop it but who knows if they had a plan to continue and refurb stuff like the e400s and the e300s.

 

[PaulMc7]

The oldest ones would be.

However, they have refurbished the B9s. Perhaps Covid will stop it but who knows if they had a plan to continue and refurb stuff like the e400s and the e300s.

I'm hoping they at least continue by doing some of the seating on the E300s and E400s. From using both bus types more than anything else I've noticed a lot of seats that really aren't in great condition.


On another note, I feel truly sorry for drivers while these diversions are going on due to the filming in the city centre. Very little reliability about as a result. The roadworks at Byres Road yesterday didn't help the 8/90 either. Buses were leaving Partick Bus Station on time but taking 30 mins just to get to the Botanic Gardens stop as a result of the roadworks.

 

[route101]

I'm hoping they at least continue by doing some of the seating on the E300s and E400s. From using both bus types more than anything else I've noticed a lot of seats that really aren't in great condition.


On another note, I feel truly sorry for drivers while these diversions are going on due to the filming in the city centre. Very little reliability about as a result. The roadworks at Byres Road yesterday didn't help the 8/90 either. Buses were leaving Partick Bus Station on time but taking 30 mins just to get to the Botanic Gardens stop as a result of the roadworks.

I seen a Citylink coach end up on Hope St and had no option but to turn onto Gordon St. I wouldn't be surprised if some first buses came round that way. Going to be fun getting to work on Sunday, using the bus.

I’ve never understood why First don’t refurbish their buses mid life. It’s like they have to be in dire straits before they’ll get a seat retrim and tidy up. They are notorious for doing the exterior but surely buses would be in much better condition and last a bit longer if they were just better looked after.

Most B7RLEs and B7TLs need a retrim. As do the low height E400s. The floors on them are always in great condition so it’s just a case of keeping the seats good and the grab rails etc. It’s always baffled me how First allow buses to be run to the ground.

I wouldn't be surprised if the low heights go at some point. Small fleet and ride is poor.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I seen a Citylink coach end up on Hope St and had no option but to turn onto Gordon St. I wouldn't be surprised if some first buses came round that way. Going to be fun getting to work on Sunday, using the bus.


I wouldn't be surprised if the low heights go at some point. Small fleet and ride is poor.

Why would a small fleet of low height vehicles be an issue?

 

[Jordan Adam]

I wouldn't be surprised if the low heights go at some point. Small fleet and ride is poor.

They won't, they're the only deckers than can be used on the 6.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Why would a small fleet of low height vehicles be an issue?

I think there were talks of the Hybrid E400s going down South at one point. Last I heard they were getting converted to diesel.

I think Glasgow will keep the low height deckers as I believe they’re the only ones in the fleet. The 6 has went more single deck operated in recent years but with social distancing it’s good to have them. Also the 34/34A have started to use them too as there is a low bridge on that route. I wonder if they will order more low heights eventually when it’s time for the 11/61 plates to go or if they will eventually fizzle out.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think there were talks of the Hybrid E400s going down South at one point. Last I heard they were getting converted to diesel.

I think Glasgow will keep the low height deckers as I believe they’re the only ones in the fleet. The 6 has went more single deck operated in recent years but with social distancing it’s good to have them. Also the 34/34A have started to use them too as there is a low bridge on that route. I wonder if they will order more low heights eventually when it’s time for the 11/61 plates to go or if they will eventually fizzle out.

There was a rumour of them going to Potteries but that seems to have been just that.

First Bristol have some 4.2m high Scania e400mmc to go under a couple of low bridges so they will buy some if required.

 

[Jordan Adam]

There was a rumour of them going to Potteries but that seems to have been just that.

First Bristol have some 4.2m high Scania e400mmc to go under a couple of low bridges so they will buy some if required.

Glasgow's 68/19 plates are also low height 4.2M (13ft 10) examples. The problem is the maximum height allowed under the bridge is 13ft 9, the exact same height as the low height version of the previous generation Enviro400 - they themselves only just barely fit under.

I think Glasgow will keep the low height deckers as I believe they’re the only ones in the fleet. The 6 has went more single deck operated in recent years but with social distancing it’s good to have them. Also the 34/34A have started to use them too as there is a low bridge on that route. I wonder if they will order more low heights eventually when it’s time for the 11/61 plates to go or if they will eventually fizzle out.

The issue is that there aren't any deckers currently on the market built at a height under 13ft 9.

 

[Busman84]

Thing is ADLs E400MMC lowheight is actually too high for a route like the 6 I think. There’s not a massive difference between the Lowheight (13’10) and normal height (14’2).. The original E400 was 14’6 and lowheight was 13’8 quite a difference not just height but layout too with that model. So at the moment looks like there isn’t a decker in the market suitable for the 6. So it could be the case the 6 will see the lowheight E400s till it’s time for scrap.

 

[Scotrail314209]

The diversions were certainly something today, everything in Glasgow City Centre was late.

It was weird seeing 75s and 57s crossing Waterloo Street, as well as 18s next to 77s on Killermont Street.

 

[route101]

The diversions were certainly something today, everything in Glasgow City Centre was late.

It was weird seeing 75s and 57s crossing Waterloo Street, as well as 18s next to 77s on Killermont Street.

I wonder if they extend the running times?

I think there were talks of the Hybrid E400s going down South at one point. Last I heard they were getting converted to diesel.

I think Glasgow will keep the low height deckers as I believe they’re the only ones in the fleet. The 6 has went more single deck operated in recent years but with social distancing it’s good to have them. Also the 34/34A have started to use them too as there is a low bridge on that route. I wonder if they will order more low heights eventually when it’s time for the 11/61 plates to go or if they will eventually fizzle out.

I wonder if the Hybrid E400s are coming back into service. The 6 has been busier of late and deckers have been useful.

 

[adrock1976]

Although equally for the East Kilbride/Barrhead Electrification thread in the Infrastructure and Stations section, is it planned for the low bridge at Busby to be rebuilt?

If so, this would eliminate the problem of low height double deckers for the 6.

 

[route101]

Although equally for the East Kilbride/Barrhead Electrification thread in the Infrastructure and Stations section, is it planned for the low bridge at Busby to be rebuilt?

If so, this would eliminate the problem of low height double deckers for the 6.

Something that should been done years ago. Not heard any plans to alter the bridge.

 

[PaulMc7]

I wonder if they extend the running times?


I wonder if the Hybrid E400s are coming back into service. The 6 has been busier of late and deckers have been useful.

To be fair there's been services with horrendous reliability for years so I don't think they'd extend running times as a result of this. I've used the 6 at this end too a couple of times and it's been busier towards the City Centre but very quiet towards Clydebank from what I've seen although the issues with reliability could be a factor in that.

Even the likes of the 9/9A/10 yesterday were really struggling with the diversions. Noticed on the app at one point there was 3 10s within 2 mins of each other at Corkerhill towards the city centre.

 

[Strathclyder]

What happened to 69065?

Suffered a engine fire iirc.

To be fair, vehicles reaching that age were perhaps less frequent than you may think. The slowdown in fleet replacement around deregulation resulted in some vehicles lasting longer but in the 1970s, Glasgow were disposing of early PDR Atlanteans at the 14 year mark.

There's not as many ALXs and Presidents requiring replacement about as you'd think. First West Yorkshire have only about 20, and South Yorkshire have got rid of all of theirs, whilst Bristol is down to penny numbers.

The requirement for social distancing etc meant that quite a few were retained for longer than anticipated so whilst the South West has quite a number, many ALXs are heading to Ensign fairly imminently and the Presidents are on borrowed time.

Aye, when I think of motors that have achieved 18+ years of service in Glasgow service (at least with the Corporation and it's successors), those that spring to mind most readily are a few Atlanteans (those reinstated post-Larkfield fire in particular, not sure if LA664 was one of them), a few Ailsas (the last ones were between 20-25 years old when they finally went in the summer of 2006), the last ex-Central Tigers, the last 51-reg B10BLEs out in Dumbarton/Vale of Leven (withdrawn last March; at least two linger on as driver/route trainers) and most recently, Presidents 33120 & 32300/301 & 303-305 (they turned 18 this past May; 32302 didn't quite make it). There are no doubt other examples, but those are the ones that spring most readily to mind.

As you rightly say, social distancing etc is the primary reason Glasgow's (and other opcos where applicable) last Tridents have lasted as long as they have, same goes for the President-bodied B7TLs (one has been withdrawn though, namely 32302 as above). As has been discussed here at length, I suspect - am willing to be proved wrong as ever though! - the cascade the arrival of the EVs will trigger will likely see them all off as a group, heading either for scrap, non-PSV use or even preservation.

 

[Scotrail314209]

One thing that has to be said, I love how the 5 is practically pot luck with what you get. Yesterday I saw an E300, some Geminis and I got an MMC back into town.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

One thing that has to be said, I love how the 5 is practically pot luck with what you get. Yesterday I saw an E300, some Geminis and I got an MMC back into town.

The 5 is a busy route considering how short it is. I thought it would have been a contender for new buses.

 

[Jordan Adam]

The 5 is a busy route considering how short it is. I thought it would have been a contender for new buses.

The 65 plate E400MMCs were often used on the 5 when new before being mostly moved to Express work.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The 65 plate E400MMCs were often used on the 5 when new before being mostly moved to Express work.

I remember that. The 4, 75 and 5 have all seen them. The 75 has had new buses so perhaps with the new batch the 5 may receive new stock.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I remember that. The 4, 75 and 5 have all seen them. The 75 has had new buses so perhaps with the new batch the 5 may receive new stock.

Of course nothing is officially confirmed other than that the first 22 single deckers are for the 9/9A, however i think it's safe to be fairly sure the 5 will be getting some of the new electric buses seeing as it's a Caledonia route, isn't high mileage and practically goes right past the depot.

The main reason the 65 plates were moved off the 4, 5 and 75 was because the start stop system was proving problematic.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 7/7A are a lottery too although more at the weekend than anything. I've seen a fair few newer buses today on them although it does tend to happen more at the weekend with more available

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The 7/7A are a lottery too although more at the weekend than anything. I've seen a fair few newer buses today on them although it does tend to happen more at the weekend with more available

There’s been rumours (although as ever nothing confirmed) that the 7/7A will seeing the new E200EVs.

 

[PaulMc7]

There’s been rumours (although as ever nothing confirmed) that the 7/7A will seeing the new E200EVs.

It would be really well deserved in my opinion. Always been a really busy service. The only quiet bit I've seen on a consistent basis while using the 7/7A is between Rutherglen and Westburn on the 7A

 

[route101]

The 5 is a busy route considering how short it is. I thought it would have been a contender for new buses.

Usually a reliable route as it starts at Osborne St.

It would be really well deserved in my opinion. Always been a really busy service. The only quiet bit I've seen on a consistent basis while using the 7/7A is between Rutherglen and Westburn on the 7A

I haven't found it too busy, but always had older buses and singles on the route.

I remember that. The 4, 75 and 5 have all seen them. The 75 has had new buses so perhaps with the new batch the 5 may receive new stock.

Yes, I remember them on the 4 and 5. From 2015 to 2016.

 

[PaulMc7]

In the north side of the route the 7/7A were generally always busy from what I seen towards Summerston but I've been on them more on the south side during Covid and they've been close to full capacity allowed practically every time.

I don't know if it's just because of things opening up but since the number change I've noticed the 189/190 being very close to full on the app a few times. I didn't see it as much with the 89/90 but I'm also not sure the number change has done much.