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First Greater Glasgow

DC21

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Has First Glasgow ever operated a service in Lanark?
A variation of the 242 went Lanark/Carluke to Motherwell/Hamilton via Wishaw & Motherwell they also ran a 231 after McKindless hit the wall from Lanark to Hamilton via the Clyde Valley. X10 and 240 as mentioned, although I don't think the 243 ever went further than Carluke. 317 I don't think first ran that sure it was Irvine's then Stuart's. First West Lothian ran the 77 from Lanark to Livingston for a brief period with Merc minibuses mainly.
 
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RailUK Forums

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The 240 ran out there via Carluke.

Also used to operate X10 Lanark to Glasgow and 243 and 317 Lanark to Hamilton.

A variation of the 242 went Lanark/Carluke to Motherwell/Hamilton via Wishaw & Motherwell they also ran a 231 after McKindless hit the wall from Lanark to Hamilton via the Clyde Valley. X10 and 240 as mentioned, although I don't think the 243 ever went further than Carluke. 317 I don't think first ran that sure it was Irvine's then Stuart's. First West Lothian ran the 77 from Lanark to Livingston for a brief period with Merc minibuses mainly.
Thank you all :).

I believe now the 77 was transferred to BlueBus which has now been replaced with service 34A by Stuarts of Carluke after the demise of BlueBus of Shotts.


What was the reason that First Bus pulled out of Lanark?
 

DC21

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Thank you all :).

I believe now the 77 was transferred to BlueBus which has now been replaced with service 34A by Stuarts of Carluke after the demise of BlueBus of Shotts.


What was the reason that First Bus pulled out of Lanark?
It's similar to Shotts. Unlike the JMB 56 v First 266, First have realised running against the JMB on the Lanark route won't make money because there the train into Carluke, Wishaw, Motherwell and onwards to Glasgow and Stuart's 240x/241x express into Glasgow aswell. If you ever get a chance to see the loading on the 266 beyond Newmains to Shotts you'd be lucky to see more than 5 the majority of the day. The bus from Shotts are the only links from there to the likes of Wishaw and Motherwell as the train goes via Bellshill to Glasgow. First Lothian have the X22 Shotts to Edinburgh but that take a good 2 hour, probably only get punters from there to Livingston shopping centre and Whitburn. Trains way faster to Edinburgh so I doubt there's much trade in the whole route.
 
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It's similar to Shotts. Unlike the JMB 56 v First 266, First have realised running against the JMB on the Lanark route won't make money because there the train into Carluke, Wishaw, Motherwell and onwards to Glasgow and Stuart's 240x/241x express into Glasgow aswell. If you ever get a chance to see the loading on the 266 beyond Newmains to Shotts you'd be lucky to see more than 5 the majority of the day. The bus from Shotts are the only links from there to the likes of Wishaw and Motherwell as the train goes via Bellshill to Glasgow. First Lothian have the X22 Shotts to Edinburgh but that take a good 2 hour, probably only get punters from there to Livingston shopping centre and Whitburn. Trains way faster to Edinburgh so I doubt there's much trade in the whole route.
Yeah, I went to Shotts in April 2019 to see what the place was and...well...I wouldn't repeat the experience, anyway, any 266 i seen go by there was hardly anyone on the bus the 56 was quite often heaving both ways but the 266 had no-one, for the hour I waited for the 701 I could count on one hand how may people I seen on the 266 in Shotts both ways.

I've always wondered since the introduction of the X22 if an expansion to Motherwell town Centre (or Wishaw) would be any good, so people in Motherwell could have an option to go to Livingston Directly from there.
 

DC21

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Yeah, I went to Shotts in April 2019 to see what the place was and...well...I wouldn't repeat the experience, anyway, any 266 i seen go by there was hardly anyone on the bus the 56 was quite often heaving both ways but the 266 had no-one, for the hour I waited for the 701 I could count on one hand how may people I seen on the 266 in Shotts both ways.

I've always wondered since the introduction of the X22 if an expansion to Motherwell town Centre (or Wishaw) would be any good, so people in Motherwell could have an option to go to Livingston Directly from there.
There was a bus the Livingston from Wishaw by Blue Bus back maybe 10/15 years ago don't think it was ever busy. If the X22 did expand then a ticket acceptance would be needed between First Glasgow and West Lothian to have a chance of getting business in my opinion. I'm surprised the X22 has lasted as long, if it's making money now, then once covids settled I could see Lothian Country giving Shotts a go
 
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There was a bus the Livingston from Wishaw by Blue Bus back maybe 10/15 years ago don't think it was ever busy. If the X22 did expand then a ticket acceptance would be needed between First Glasgow and West Lothian to have a chance of getting business in my opinion. I'm surprised the X22 has lasted as long, if it's making money now, then once covids settled I could see Lothian Country giving Shotts a go
I don't think Lothian Country would expand to Shotts because its in North Lanarkshire, I think thats why Lothian Country services only go as far as Whitburn to keep within the Lothian's and Edinburgh, this also results in Greenrigg missing out on a Lothian Country bus service.

Was Shotts ever in the Glasgow fare zone?
 

DC21

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I don't think Lothian Country would expand to Shotts because its in North Lanarkshire, I think thats why Lothian Country services only go as far as Whitburn to keep within the Lothian's and Edinburgh, this also results in Greenrigg missing out on a Lothian Country bus service.

Was Shotts ever in the Glasgow fare zone?
If by way of current ticketing, yes. You can buy a network day ticket that could take you from Shotts out to Balloch with a few changes. Also have a cut price day ticket for Lanarkshire only services. It was possible to get a First bus from Shotts to Glasgow without changing the 267 was extended there at one point then there was a variation of the 266 that ran to Glasgow aswell. If I remember correctly First created routes 266/267/268 all to run high freq along the majority of the same route from Lanarkshire to Glasgow. If memory serves me correctly it was 267 from Shotts to Glasgow where at Newmains cross it would run beside the 266 that came from West Crindledyke. These two routes would go Wishaw town centre then split, 266 via the hospital and 267 past the Tesco's and the bottom end of the Pather housing estate running down Caledonia Road. The 266 and 267 again joined up together at Netherton and both continued on the same route through Motherwell to Hamilton, where the 266 would terminate at Hamilton bus station. The 267 would continue from there onto Cambuslang and into Glasgow. Just before Newton station on the outskirts of Glasgow the 268 service would come from an estate called Newton Farm and join the same route as the 267 into Buchanan. At night and on Sundays the 267 ran to West Crindledyke instead of Shotts. No service ran to Shotts on Sunday on that route and I think the same on the 268 part.
 

route101

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Yes I remember that 268. Didn't last long.

Is the the X22 a recent thing to Shotts? I thought it used to get a token service to Edinburgh.

Shotts has a better railway service now with express service to Edinburgh and Glasgow.

I'm sure the 266 ran Glasgow to Shotts, then Blantyre to Shotts, hard to keep up with it.

I was looking at Airdrie, Caldercruix and Longriggend area. There is not a service going between Airdrie and Falkirk. Bit of a grey area or no mans land.
 
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Yes I remember that 268. Didn't last long.

Is the the X22 a recent thing to Shotts? I thought it used to get a token service to Edinburgh.

Shotts has a better railway service now with express service to Edinburgh and Glasgow.

I'm sure the 266 ran Glasgow to Shotts, then Blantyre to Shotts, hard to keep up with it.

I was looking at Airdrie, Caldercruix and Longriggend area. There is not a service going between Airdrie and Falkirk. Bit of a grey area or no mans land.
BlueBus ran service 701 up untill mid December 2019 (I think) between Livingston the Centre and Shotts via Kirkton Campus, Seafeild, Blackburn, Whitburn and Harthill.

Then First bus took over the 701 Temporarily but it only ran between Whitburn and Shotts when they were still running sevice 22 which operated Livingston, St Johns Hospital to Harthill via Livingston Village, Seafeild, Blackburn and Whitburn.

First Bus West Lothian Withdrew service 701 and replaced it with service X22 which runs Edinburgh City Centre to Shotts via Dalry, Sighthill, Hermiston Park and Ride, Wilkieston, East Calder, Mid Calder, Dedridge, Livingston the Centre, Livingston Village, Seafeild, Blackburn, Whitburn and Harthill.

Service X22 Edinburgh to Shotts was introduced on Monday 27th January 2020.

(What do you mean by Token service?)
 

AlexanderPS

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I was looking at Airdrie, Caldercruix and Longriggend area. There is not a service going between Airdrie and Falkirk. Bit of a grey area or no mans land.

There used to be the 580 Monkland Hospital to Falkirk but this was with drawn in the 2000s. Also there was an E20 from Caldercruix to Falkirk but again this was withdrawn around 2014-15. Both were supported by Falkirk Council. Even the 101 to Longriggend (now Upperton) has been supported since First withdrew the 201 from there in the late 90s.
 

DC21

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There used to be the 580 Monkland Hospital to Falkirk but this was with drawn in the 2000s. Also there was an E20 from Caldercruix to Falkirk but again this was withdrawn around 2014-15. Both were supported by Falkirk Council. Even the 101 to Longriggend (now Upperton) has been supported since First withdrew the 201 from there in the late 90s.
First had the 262 from Glasgow to Caldercruix then it was curtailed to Airdrie. It then became the 62 run Faifley - Airdrie, then it was the 2 with a Ballieston variation. Airdrie section was cut recently so now Airdrie doesnt have a direct bus link into Glasgow
 

PaulMc7

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Anything east of Baillieston seems to be horrendous bus territory tbh. SPT contracts all over the place outside of the 201. Used the 2 a few times from Whifflet/Coatbridge and Airdrie and it's understandable as to why that section was cut. Bus had very few passengers. Even the 201s I've been on in that end of the route really haven't been majorly busy especially when you compare it to anything I've experienced between East Kilbride and Bellshill
 

AlexanderPS

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Anything east of Baillieston seems to be horrendous bus territory tbh. SPT contracts all over the place outside of the 201. Used the 2 a few times from Whifflet/Coatbridge and Airdrie and it's understandable as to why that section was cut. Bus had very few passengers. Even the 201s I've been on in that end of the route really haven't been majorly busy especially when you compare it to anything I've experienced between East Kilbride and Bellshill

When I used the 201 to college from 2009 to 2012 it was a busy bus from Airdrie, sometimes a standing load from Coatbridge. Always thought the monklands network died when First withdrew and left it to independents running small parts of the routes. These were also ran by different companies so no network benefits. Just declined due to high car usage.
 

JumpinTrainz

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Anything east of Baillieston seems to be horrendous bus territory tbh. SPT contracts all over the place outside of the 201. Used the 2 a few times from Whifflet/Coatbridge and Airdrie and it's understandable as to why that section was cut. Bus had very few passengers. Even the 201s I've been on in that end of the route really haven't been majorly busy especially when you compare it to anything I've experienced between East Kilbride and Bellshill
The 201s I’ve ever seen seem to be fairly busy. It works well with the E300s. It sees E400MMCs on Sundays now due to social distancing which I don’t recall ever seeing any deckers on this route.

I remember the old 260 (which was renumbered the 262) used to run from Airdrie - Buchanan Bus Station. They then merged it with the 62 and it ran as a variation from Faifley-Airdrie which was a pretty long route. For a time I even recall them extending it out as far as Caldercruix! I don’t imagine the demand was there (if ever) once they built the Airdrie - Bathgate section of the railway line. I don’t recall the Lanarkshire end of the route ever being busy. Most people would use the train and it would only have gotten worse with the electrification of the Whifflet line.
 
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PaulMc7

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The 201s I’ve ever seen seem to be fairly busy. It works well with the E300s. It sees E400MMCs on Sundays now due to social distancing which I don’t recall ever seeing any deckers on this route.

I remember the old 260 (which was renumbered the 262) used to run from Airdrie - BBS. They then merged it with the 62 and it ran as a variation from Faifley-Airdrie which was a pretty long route. For a time I even recall them extending it out as far as Caldercruix! I don’t imagine the demand was there (if ever) once they built the A-B section of the railway line. I don’t recall the Lanarkshire end of the route ever being busy. Most people would use the train and it would only have gotten worse with the electrification of the Whifflet line.
Yeah that 260/262 highlights how much the train has decimated bus passenger numbers IMO. Pretty sure it was every 10/12 mins at one point too. The fact that there's trains into Motherwell now from Whifflet probably caused a lot of numbers falling too. It's 1 stop so nothing compared to the bus
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
The 201s I’ve ever seen seem to be fairly busy. It works well with the E300s. It sees E400MMCs on Sundays now due to social distancing which I don’t recall ever seeing any deckers on this route.

I remember the old 260 (which was renumbered the 262) used to run from Airdrie - BBS. They then merged it with the 62 and it ran as a variation from Faifley-Airdrie which was a pretty long route. For a time I even recall them extending it out as far as Caldercruix! I don’t imagine the demand was there (if ever) once they built the A-B section of the railway line. I don’t recall the Lanarkshire end of the route ever being busy. Most people would use the train and it would only have gotten worse with the electrification of the Whifflet line.

Regarding buses Glasgow - Airdrie, I can also remember the 213 that ran via Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh Road, Baillieston, Bargeddie Station, then direct along the A89 via Coatbridge to Airdrie bus station and onwards to Petersburn.

This was before the Overground concept in 1999. The 213 was curtailed to only run as far as Bargeddie Station, with it most likely to have been operated by Parkhead Garage. When the garage at Possilpark closed in the summer of 2000, I am unsure if it was the 213 or the 203 that ran to Cairns via Cambuslang that got incorporated with the 184 that used to run to Kilsyth via Twechar. Whichever one it was, it was split not long afterwards due to delays across both sides of the Clyde.

Also, the former 184 Glasgow - Kilsyth via Twechar I believe was the only former Possilpark Garage Kirkintilloch route that did not transfer to the garage at Cumbernauld (Carbrain, just past the railway station and subsequently transferred to Stagecoach Ayr division - not Fife Region), whereas the 88 Glasgow - Harestanes, the peak Waterside via M80, and the 175 Campsie Glen did.
 

Zakforbes4

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Regarding buses Glasgow - Airdrie, I can also remember the 213 that ran via Royal Infirmary, Edinburgh Road, Baillieston, Bargeddie Station, then direct along the A89 via Coatbridge to Airdrie bus station and onwards to Petersburn.

This was before the Overground concept in 1999. The 213 was curtailed to only run as far as Bargeddie Station, with it most likely to have been operated by Parkhead Garage. When the garage at Possilpark closed in the summer of 2000, I am unsure if it was the 213 or the 203 that ran to Cairns via Cambuslang that got incorporated with the 184 that used to run to Kilsyth via Twechar. Whichever one it was, it was split not long afterwards due to delays across both sides of the Clyde.

Also, the former 184 Glasgow - Kilsyth via Twechar I believe was the only former Possilpark Garage Kirkintilloch route that did not transfer to the garage at Cumbernauld (Carbrain, just past the railway station and subsequently transferred to Stagecoach Ayr division - not Fife Region), whereas the 88 Glasgow - Harestanes, the peak Waterside via M80, and the 175 Campsie Glen did.
213 still runs now but only goes from Bailliston - Airdrie at night and on sundays along with the 213A been run by McNairs(?)
 

JumpinTrainz

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213 still runs now but only goes from Bailliston - Airdrie at night and on sundays along with the 213A been run by McNairs(?)
The First 213 was replaced by the 38E but only as far as Baillieston lights it no longer served Bargeddie as of 2013.
 

PaulMc7

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3 different tenders exist to cover Baillieston to Coatbridge now across the week. Definitely shows how bad it got for passenger numbers. I wonder if post Covid the current setup with the 38B being extended to Baillieston on a Sunday to cover the 38E will remain. Used the 38E a fair bit and it seems to get pretty quiet beyond Edinburgh Road at Wellhouse Road
 

route101

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3 different tenders exist to cover Baillieston to Coatbridge now across the week. Definitely shows how bad it got for passenger numbers. I wonder if post Covid the current setup with the 38B being extended to Baillieston on a Sunday to cover the 38E will remain. Used the 38E a fair bit and it seems to get pretty quiet beyond Edinburgh Road at Wellhouse Road

Only route really that goes along most of Edinburgh, 41 does too. Not noticed many passengers on that road.

Same story across the city, former first routes that were every 20 or 30 mins , now broken up into smaller routes. With different tenders and fares.
 

JumpinTrainz

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Only route really that goes along most of Edinburgh, 41 does too. Not noticed many passengers on that road.

Same story across the city, former first routes that were every 20 or 30 mins , now broken up into smaller routes. With different tenders and fares.
It’s a good link into town and especially for the Glasgow Royal Infirmary. It’s quicker and drops you off right outside. It’s also much quicker to the City Centre than the 2.
 

PaulMc7

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Think the problem with the 2 in general is that so much of the route is pretty bad for congestion even off peak. Obviously, the current situation has helped that but in normal times the likes of Shettleston, Gallowgate, City Centre, Partick, Scotstoun, Clydebank etc can be pretty bad for reliability. Not surprised people opted to pay more for the train than get the 2 from Airdrie to Glasgow as it was around an hour and 15 mins even if the 2 was on time. Would it have worked if the route was only City Centre to Airdrie? Possibly but I highly doubt it would have been attractive enough even then if more reliable
 

Zakforbes4

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Think the problem with the 2 in general is that so much of the route is pretty bad for congestion even off peak. Obviously, the current situation has helped that but in normal times the likes of Shettleston, Gallowgate, City Centre, Partick, Scotstoun, Clydebank etc can be pretty bad for reliability. Not surprised people opted to pay more for the train than get the 2 from Airdrie to Glasgow as it was around an hour and 15 mins even if the 2 was on time. Would it have worked if the route was only City Centre to Airdrie? Possibly but I highly doubt it would have been attractive enough even then if more reliable
They would never cut the 2 - it makes far to much money from Faifley to the town.
 
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Think the problem with the 2 in general is that so much of the route is pretty bad for congestion even off peak. Obviously, the current situation has helped that but in normal times the likes of Shettleston, Gallowgate, City Centre, Partick, Scotstoun, Clydebank etc can be pretty bad for reliability. Not surprised people opted to pay more for the train than get the 2 from Airdrie to Glasgow as it was around an hour and 15 mins even if the 2 was on time. Would it have worked if the route was only City Centre to Airdrie? Possibly but I highly doubt it would have been attractive enough even then if more reliable
This service did run, it was numbered the 260. https://www.flickr.com/photos/77000628@N02/11386048834/in/album-72157634813626172/
 
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92002

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They would never cut the 2 it makes far to much money from Failfley to the town
Perhaps the solution is to create an X2 from Faufley to the city centre using the expressway and reduce the number going via Partick. A similar thing could operate from Baillieston to the city centre using the M8. Although at peak times it can be congested from the East all the way from Shettleston. So perhaps use the M74 to the city instead.
 

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