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First Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and West Lothian operations)

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739678

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The xmas details have come out and its the same as last year: https://www.firstgroup.com/south-east-and-central-scotland/plan-journey/festive-service-levels


Falkirk and Stirling No service Xmas day, Boxing day, 1st and 2nd Jan. With a saturday timetable in between

West lothian as already know: with only the 26 and 600 on, xmas day, Boxing day, 1st and 2nd Jan. With a saturday timetable in between

Actually, there are no services in West Lothian on Saturday 2nd January, according to the leaflet. I assume the council are not paying for them and so First will not run them....
 
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overthewater

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Actually, there are no services in West Lothian on Saturday 2nd January, according to the leaflet. I assume the council are not paying for them and so First will not run them....

Oh dear, even thought LCB are doing a sunday service that will leave a few areas without any buses or connection..
 
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Find it strange why First don't do Boxing Day or 2nd January up at FSE, Full Sunday Service here in Glasgow on the 26th and the 2nd.
 
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Find it strange why First don't do Boxing Day or 2nd January up at FSE, Full Sunday Service here in Glasgow on the 26th and the 2nd.
I feel it's a pretty poor show really. A route like the 38 which runs every 15 minutes normally just disappears altogether on 2 January - something of a slap in the face for their loyal customers especially if Tier 4 restrictions are lifted by that time.
Of course the company will claim the councils are at fault for not offering a subsidy. However passengers might not sympathise given Lothian Country are able to self-fund a Sunday service level across West Lothian on 2 Jan.
 

GusB

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I feel it's a pretty poor show really. A route like the 38 which runs every 15 minutes normally just disappears altogether on 2 January - something of a slap in the face for their loyal customers especially if Tier 4 restrictions are lifted by that time.
Of course the company will claim the councils are at fault for not offering a subsidy. However passengers might not sympathise given Lothian Country are able to self-fund a Sunday service level across West Lothian on 2 Jan.
2nd January is a bank holiday. I'm not au-fait with how bus companies remunerate or schedule their staff for bank holidays, but if there's any premium to be paid on top of wages this needs to be taken into account. If a service is run commercially, is it going to cover its costs? If it requires subsidy, is that subsidy going to cover the costs?
 
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2nd January is a bank holiday. I'm not au-fait with how bus companies remunerate or schedule their staff for bank holidays, but if there's any premium to be paid on top of wages this needs to be taken into account. If a service is run commercially, is it going to cover its costs? If it requires subsidy, is that subsidy going to cover the costs?
Perhaps I'm being unduly harsh. First may have expected West Lothian Council to subsidise the X38 route as they've done so in previous years therefore didn't factor the impact of losses associated with commercial cover.
But I still think it's a bit off that a route like the X38 has over-provision when there's competition from rival operators, so they feel it's worth fighting for. Yet the company leaves towns and villages with no service at all on a day like 2 January when some people may need to make essential journeys.
 
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GusB

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Perhaps I'm being unduly harsh. First probably didn't expect West Lothian Council wouldn't subsidise the X38 route as they've done so in previous years so didn't plan on commercial cover.
But I still think it's a bit off that a route like the X38 has over-provision when there's competition from rival operators, so they feel it's worth fighting for. Yet the company leaves towns and villages with no service at all on a day like 2 January when some people may need to make essential journeys.
I know exactly where you're coming from. I worked in retail for long enough and it was always hell trying to get to work on either Boxing day or the 2nd January when most employers in that sector would expect you to be available. That was before I moved back to the rural backwater where I currently live! From bitter experience, most retailers don't give a monkey's that you don't have a car and expect you to either organise a lift or walk. Taxis are out of the question because their time-and-a-half is far more than your double-time and time-in-lieu (if you're lucky!)

Anyhow, this isn't bus-specific, so I'll knock it on the head here. The forum usually has a "Boxing Day Services" thread which usually gets shut down after the same old arguments are re-hashed over and over again! :)
 

Volvodart

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I think the X38 may have fallen through the wayside with LC operating it commercially last year but omitting it from their services this year. Did First operate anything commercially there on 2 January last year? The council budget was fully spent with what they are doing covering the hospital services. I have posted the report before.
 
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Baileygirl

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I think the X38 may have fallen through the wayside with LC operating it commercially last year but omitting it from their services this year. Did First operate anything commercially there on 2 January last year? The council budget was fully spent with what they are doing covering the hospital services. I have posted the report before.
First had no services running last year for all the four holiday days. X38 used to be run out of Livingston using their drivers and Larbert drivers. It ran Linlithgow to Edinburgh.
 

duncanp

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Possibly slightly off topic, but I think the current service 63 (now run by First), which was extended to Balerno last year, could be useful if the frequency was increased to at least every 20 minutes, and possibly diverted via Curriehill Station to provide a connection with the trains. The reason for saying this is that:-

  • Quite a number of university staff and students live in Currie and Balerno, so a link to Riccarton Campus would be handy. (Also handy for students wanting to visit pubs in Currie & Balerno, saving a long slow stagger back to the campus late at night) :D
  • Diverting the 63 to serve Curriehill Station would provide a useful connection to rail services, especially if the bus was timed to connect with semi fast westbound trains to Glasgow. When I lived in Balerno, it was a pain in the you know what to have to endure a long slow bus journey to Haymarket Station if I wanted to go to Glasgow, or indeed many other places in Scotland.
  • The Gyle shopping centre, the Edinburgh Park office complex, Edinburgh Park Station, the tram and the airport are all important traffic objectives, and having a reasonable connecting bus service would enable people in Balerno, Currie and students at Heriot - Watt to travel there easily. It might even be worth it diverting the 63 at The Gyle to serve the airport, and having another bus service running from Queensferry to Edinburgh Park, as I am not sure there are too many through journeys from Queensferry to Balerno.

I realise that this probably won't happen in the near future, but if you want to get people using bus services, you have to make them go where people need to get to, and at a suitably attractive frequency.
 

Edirim

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Agree with linking the 63 into Curriehill Station but given its a tendered service...it definitely won't get a frequency increase anytime soon.

The 63 going into the Airport would be too time-consuming although it could divert into the P&R like the 20 does and thus let folk connect onto the tram for onward travel (perhaps using a through ticket...)

If serving Curriehill station is desired perhaps the route from Balerno could be as present then LEFT onto Riccarton Mains Road, LEFT onto Riccarton Avenue then RIGHT onto Curriehill Road (Hail & Ride at the entrance to train station) then CONTINUE along Currehill Road to Back of HW Campus with RIGHT turn into the grounds, serving new stops near the Halls of Residence before serving the Terminus and heading out to Hermiston Park & Ride via the Research Park Grounds.
 
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Agree with linking the 63 into Curriehill Station but given its a tendered service...it definitely won't get a frequency increase anytime soon.

The 63 going into the Airport would be too time-consuming although it could divert into the P&R like the 20 does and thus let folk connect onto the tram for onward travel (perhaps using a through ticket...)

If serving Curriehill station is desired perhaps the route from Balerno could be as present then LEFT onto Riccarton Mains Road, LEFT onto Riccarton Avenue then RIGHT onto Curriehill Road (Hail & Ride at the entrance to train station) then CONTINUE along Currehill Road to Back of HW Campus with RIGHT turn into the grounds, serving new stops near the Halls of Residence before serving the Terminus and heading out to Hermiston Park & Ride via the Research Park Grounds.
Possibly, but Curriehill Station isn't exactly a long distance from bus stops on Riccarton Avenue at the moment, and entering Heriot-Watt from Curriehill Road was never really encouraged in the past. But maybe there are opportunities for changes in future, especially if new houses are built north of the station.
As you point out, the 63 is a tendered service. When Lothian Buses terminated the 63 at Hermiston I think the council subsidy was about £250k per year, and the Balerno extension has probably added 50% to that. Carting revelling students and well-heeled lecturers home from the pub may not be viewed as optimal use of tax-payers money.
 

stan68

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Am I correct in saying that Lothian have ordered some BYD ADL Enviro 400EVs, as has been posted in the manufacturers forum on this site?

Agree with linking the 63 into Curriehill Station but given its a tendered service...it definitely won't get a frequency increase anytime soon.

The 63 going into the Airport would be too time-consuming although it could divert into the P&R like the 20 does and thus let folk connect onto the tram for onward travel (perhaps using a through ticket...)

If serving Curriehill station is desired perhaps the route from Balerno could be as present then LEFT onto Riccarton Mains Road, LEFT onto Riccarton Avenue then RIGHT onto Curriehill Road (Hail & Ride at the entrance to train station) then CONTINUE along Currehill Road to Back of HW Campus with RIGHT turn into the grounds, serving new stops near the Halls of Residence before serving the Terminus and heading out to Hermiston Park & Ride via the Research Park Grounds.
I wonder if First will see sense where Lothian did not, they might try to shoehorn in some direct routes into the city centre if they could make an interchange at Hermiston P+R, which would in turn give them an opportunity to get the university students on their buses with lower fares. Come on Lothian, make a superior service! Also, does the 20 serve Gogarburn RBS under First?
 
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I wonder if First will see sense where Lothian did not, they might try to shoehorn in some direct routes into the city centre if they could make an interchange at Hermiston P+R, which would in turn give them an opportunity to get the university students on their buses with lower fares. Come on Lothian, make a superior service! Also, does the 20 serve Gogarburn RBS under First?
No, the 20 doesn't divert into RBS.
Don't First already run services through Hermiston Park & Ride to the city centre via Gorgie Road at lower fares than Lothian?
 

scotrail158713

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Don't First already run services through Hermiston Park & Ride to the city centre via Gorgie Road at lower fares than Lothian?
Yep - £1.20 single and I want to say £2 for a day ticket. (Not 100% sure on the latter though so please correct me if I’m wrong)
I’ve used it a few times and it’s never been very well used whenever I’ve used it, or seen it at other times. Part of that might be down to a lack of advertising from First though - I only knew about it after reading posts on here.
 

stan68

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No, the 20 doesn't divert into RBS.
Don't First already run services through Hermiston Park & Ride to the city centre via Gorgie Road at lower fares than Lothian?
And of course there is the 68. Where does it actually go round the back of the Airport as it is advertised as a Turnhouse and Clermiston circular?
 

overthewater

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And of course there is the 68. Where does it actually go round the back of the Airport as it is advertised as a Turnhouse and Clermiston circular?

If you look on Google maps, at the top end of turnhouse, there is a bus stop right next to the airport gates, however I don't believe that been used in years. So they have to do a 3 point turn somewhere after the TNT building.
 

stan68

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If you look on Google maps, at the top end of turnhouse, there is a bus stop right next to the airport gates, however I don't believe that been used in years. So they have to do a 3 point turn somewhere after the TNT building.
If I was them I would extend the route via Lennymuir and Cammo Road to Barnton connecting at Craigmount which would serve those gates again and reduce unnecessary turning around. Are you aware what vehicles are being used on these routes?
 
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Baileygirl

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If you look on Google maps, at the top end of turnhouse, there is a bus stop right next to the airport gates, however I don't believe that been used in years. So they have to do a 3 point turn somewhere after the TNT building.
it goes into and round the the small industrial estate at the freight terminal. no three point turn is required
 

overthewater

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it goes into and round the the small industrial estate at the freight terminal. no three point turn is required

Im going to have to go back on another trip at some point, where is this industrial estate, if you look a map doesn't seem to anywhere with out fence? Does it still sever the bus stop at the very end of the road?
 

Baileygirl

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Im going to have to go back on another trip at some point, where is this industrial estate, if you look a map doesn't seem to anywhere with out fence? Does it still sever the bus stop at the very end of the road?
At the end of the road it turns left and follows the road round and there is a bus stop before it comes out on to the main road again.
 

overthewater

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Cheers, I must have travelled on a day that road was closed and the bus had no choice but to do 3 point turn.
 

JurassicMan

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Yep - £1.20 single and I want to say £2 for a day ticket. (Not 100% sure on the latter though so please correct me if I’m wrong)
I’ve used it a few times and it’s never been very well used whenever I’ve used it, or seen it at other times. Part of that might be down to a lack of advertising from First though - I only knew about it after reading posts on here.
It is indeed a £2 day ticket ,there is also a £7 7 day ticket which is exceptionally good value .

Am I correct in saying that Lothian have ordered some BYD ADL Enviro 400EVs, as has been posted in the manufacturers forum on this site?


I wonder if First will see sense where Lothian did not, they might try to shoehorn in some direct routes into the city centre if they could make an interchange at Hermiston P+R, which would in turn give them an opportunity to get the university students on their buses with lower fares. Come on Lothian, make a superior service! Also, does the 20 serve Gogarburn RBS under First?
At present there is no need to service RBS gogar however post covid that may indeed happen on either the 63 or 20 service.
 

stan68

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It is indeed a £2 day ticket ,there is also a £7 7 day ticket which is exceptionally good value .


At present there is no need to service RBS gogar however post covid that may indeed happen on either the 63 or 20 service.
My cousin works there and she is about to go back into work after Christmas so as people get back into work First had better get their skates on, even launch a daily return into Haymarket like the Lothian X12.
 

Bus9120UK

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My friend was on a 63 and when they reached the barriers at Edinburgh Park (towards Queensferry) the driver failed to open them and they couldn't continue their service. Why is this?
 

CN04NRJ

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My friend was on a 63 and when they reached the barriers at Edinburgh Park (towards Queensferry) the driver failed to open them and they couldn't continue their service. Why is this?

If they don't open you just get out and push the button, the operator works in the green hut not far from the barriers and will open them. If they're out of order they just put them up.

You have to get the approach angle just right to get over sensors properly, they're under the road surface.
 

Bus9120UK

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If they don't open you just get out and push the button, the operator works in the green hut not far from the barriers and will open them. If they're out of order they just put them up.

You have to get the approach angle just right to get over sensors properly, they're under the road surface.
My friend said the driver did try getting out to open them. It was probably the sensors.
 
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