First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[charlie1284]

It would but when all the green ones return they could be used on route like the a17 or 87 where as the blue one can't ( they can but wrong route branding) Also the 66 and 08 plate e400s are a few years old and could do with a repaint, also there would be less U route needing blue buses so some would be spare.

Also Marc has tweeted a image of 37729 - YJ09 OCA with it'd new lands end coaster vinalys.
Link: https://twitter.com/MarcMorganHuws/status/1384512374556745730?s=19

Ah yes I see what you mean now. I predict 5 buses will need to be repainted for the U4, so the 3 E400s and 2 MMCs.

 

[Trainfan061193]

Ah yes I see what you mean now. I predict 5 buses will need to be repainted for the U4, so the 3 E400s and 2 MMCs.

I can definitely see the 3 08 E400s getting painted as they do quite often appear on the U4 it seems.

 

[TechDan2002]

In terms of the Tinners, the current T1/T2 need around 15 vehicles (again, roughly give or take). When the remaining reds return, they could be used on the college T3 service (with college route interworks) as that would fit the brand.

The T3 isn’t currently running as a T3, it displays ‘Truro College Shuttle’ on the destination display and is inter worked by a variety of vehicles and drivers throughout the day in between their main college route. Whether that’ll change post Covid social distancing who knows

 

[MB162435]

Any spare Tinners could also work the 201 service, which hopefully will continue post-Covid, certainly helps take the strain off of T1/T2s at peak college times

 

[Andyh82]

Can you fill in the gaps, why is there going to be spare Tinner buses?

 

[Goldfish62]

Can you fill in the gaps, why is there going to be spare Tinner buses?

Because of the frequency cut last year. Preciously there were sufficient buses for PVR plus spares. There are probably 4-5 buses surplus now.

Any spare Tinners could also work the 201 service, which hopefully will continue post-Covid, certainly helps take the strain off of T1/T2s at peak college times

Is using the best of the fleet on college services rather than the core network a good idea?

 

[MB162435]

Because of the frequency cut last year. Preciously there were sufficient buses for PVR plus spares. There are probably 4-5 buses surplus now.


Is using the best of the fleet on college services rather than the core network a good idea?

College services are meant to be more closely connected with the commercial network, so whatever form that takes it certainly possible and SRs are mainly used on College services already

Post Covid I would assume College services will be open door again, so could provide extra services to Camborne

 

[Lizard1324]

I can definitely see the 3 08 E400s getting painted as they do quite often appear on the U4 it seems.

Maybe also 32757 - WA54 OLP might go into lizard as its relatives are all green and would fit well.
But likely the lizard buses will float between L route as Marc said so they can be fueled and maintained so if the new u4 buses aren't route branded they might spend some time on the L1.

 

[dan.zyx]

Hi, does anybody know what livery 32122 (LJ53BAV) is in at this time, as it was first out according to Bus Times yesterday and only did a 87 today.

 

[richw]

Hi, does anybody know what livery 32122 (LJ53BAV) is in at this time, as it was first out according to Bus Times yesterday and only did a 87 today.

It’s plain white

 

[Goldfish62]

College services are meant to be more closely connected with the commercial network, so whatever form that takes it certainly possible and SRs are mainly used on College services already

Post Covid I would assume College services will be open door again, so could provide extra services to Camborne

It's still the point as to whether you use your best and most expensive assets all day, all week on the core network, or just a fraction of that time on college services.

Generally operators use their best vehicles on core services and their older stuff on college services. Even the extravagant TfL uses this approach, allowing operators to bid for school routes (which in non-Covid times are open to the public) with significantly older buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's still the point as to whether you use your best and most expensive assets all day, all week on the core network, or just a fraction of that time on college services.

Generally operators use their best vehicles on core services and their older stuff on college services. Even the extravagant TfL uses this approach, allowing operators to bid for school routes (which in non-Covid times are open to the public) with significantly older buses.

I'm sure that the FSW management are all too well aware of the need to get the most out of their most expensive assets and achieve the required rate of return. @On the Buses has mentioned on a few occasions about having decent margin college work plus the commercial initiatives e.g. DayTripper duties and other stuff like rail replacement in order to achieve the required returns.

 

[carlberry]

It's still the point as to whether you use your best and most expensive assets all day, all week on the core network, or just a fraction of that time on college services.

Generally operators use their best vehicles on core services and their older stuff on college services. Even the extravagant TfL uses this approach, allowing operators to bid for school routes (which in non-Covid times are open to the public) with significantly older buses.

Equally the college could specify an age limit, or a requirement for new or liveried vehicles to be used. The end result might be an asset that's sat around a lot of the time however, if the contact pays well, the end result is an asset that's low mileage but has already made a major contribution (even if that's unlikely to effect it's value on the books at the time).

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm sure that the FSW management are all too well aware of the need to get the most out of their most expensive assets and achieve the required rate of return. @On the Buses has mentioned on a few occasions about having decent margin college work plus the commercial initiatives e.g. DayTripper duties and other stuff like rail replacement in order to achieve the required returns.

Well of course they are. We're just having a discussion on the issues. I think that's allowed on a discussion forum!

Equally the college could specify an age limit, or a requirement for new or liveried vehicles to be used. The end result might be an asset that's sat around a lot of the time however, if the contact pays well, the end result is an asset that's low mileage but has already made a major contribution (even if that's unlikely to effect it's value on the books at the time).

Very true, and of course all the more relevant in these difficult times for operators.

The financials quite rightly take priority, but there's no getting away from the fact that it can result in prioritising a captive audience over optional travellers, and environmentally it's not good running Euro III buses round all day when Euro VI buses are sat doing nothing.

As an aside I'm sure @Onthebuses is reading all this and having a chuckle.

 

[83G/84D]

Well of course they are. We're just having a discussion on the issues. I think that's allowed on a discussion forum!


Very true, and of course all the more relevant in these difficult times for operators.

The financials quite rightly take priority, but there's no getting away from the fact that it can result in prioritising a captive audience over optional travellers, and environmentally it's not good running Euro III buses round all day when Euro VI buses are sat doing nothing.

As an aside I'm sure @Onthebuses is reading all this and having a chuckle.

Or he is compiling his next cryptic post to keep us all guessing about what is coming up for First South West.

 

[Goldfish62]

Or he is compiling his next cryptic post to keep us all guessing about what is coming up for First South West.

Indeed! We are very lucky to have his input on this forum.

 

[83G/84D]

Indeed! We are very lucky to have his input on this forum.

We are, and the guessing games are entertaining and interesting as well.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well of course they are. We're just having a discussion on the issues. I think that's allowed on a discussion forum!

Nearly 15,000 posts on this thread would indicate some level of discussion occurs?

As I said, he has (amongst his teases) been quite clear as to the focus on higher margin business so they are quite aware. Certainly, the FSW team are amongst the most innovative in the industry (along with people like Transdev and parts of Go Ahead) and there's a lot of other firms who could take note.

 

[Goldfish62]

Nearly 15,000 posts on this thread would indicate some level of discussion occurs?

As I said, he has (amongst his teases) been quite clear as to the focus on higher margin business so they are quite aware. Certainly, the FSW team are amongst the most innovative in the industry (along with people like Transdev and parts of Go Ahead) and there's a lot of other firms who could take note.

I've certainly been most impressed by the way they've come out fighting in the face of the double whammies of the tender losses and Covid.

Next major challenge will be enhanced partnerships next year!

 

[Lizard1324]

It's still the point as to whether you use your best and most expensive assets all day, all week on the core network, or just a fraction of that time on college services.

Generally operators use their best vehicles on core services and their older stuff on college services. Even the extravagant TfL uses this approach, allowing operators to bid for school routes (which in non-Covid times are open to the public) with significantly older buses.

It would like be the case that these buses will be used on college routes in the morning and commercial routes in the day, like the 250 which is a Camborne to Penwith College route but after 9am this bus is used on the T1 all day till it returns to the 250 at 4pm.

This will likely be the case with the new L3 and L1 with some of the college buses returning to Helston on a commercial route rather then empty as they do currently.

 

[Busgeek]

Maybe also 32757 - WA54 OLP might go into lizard as its relatives are all green and would fit well.
But likely the lizard buses will float between L route as Marc said so they can be fueled and maintained so if the new u4 buses aren't route branded they might spend some time on the L1.

I can't see why or how this will work. Not using the fuel facilities at the helston outstation is mad. Plenty of cleaners of an evening in Camborne so surely they could use one from the to clean over at helston. With the likely hood of there being around 16 buses at helston, it seems odd... Also find it interesting how the Open tops will get fueled. Here some of the staff saying about it here and there, they're all confused by it now

 

[On the Buses]

I can't see why or how this will work. Not using the fuel facilities at the helston outstation is mad. Plenty of cleaners of an evening in Camborne so surely they could use one from the to clean over at helston. With the likely hood of there being around 16 buses at helston, it seems odd... Also find it interesting how the Open tops will get fueled. Here some of the staff saying about it here and there, they're all confused by it

Ignorance is madness

 

[Lizard1324]

I can't see why or how this will work. Not using the fuel facilities at the helston outstation is mad. Plenty of cleaners of an evening in Camborne so surely they could use one from the to clean over at helston. With the likely hood of there being around 16 buses at helston, it seems odd... Also find it interesting how the Open tops will get fueled. Here some of the staff saying about it here and there, they're all confused by it now

Dont quote me on this but I don't think Helston does have any fueling facilities anymore. That why TfC use public fuel stations (usually still in service).
I do know a lot of Helston College buses do go to Camborne or Penzance to be refuelled, so maybe the new route will incorporate fuelling areas.

 

[carlberry]

Dont quote me in this but I don't think helston does have any fueling facilities anymore. That why Tfc use public fuel stations (usually still in service).
I do know alot of Helston college buses do go to Camborne or penzance to be refuelled, so maybe the new route will incorporate fueling areas.

If Helson is a First facility then TfC wouldn’t be able to use it. As rostering buses for fuelling and cleaning buses is something that First (and it's predecessor companies) have been doing in Helston for more than 110 years I doubt they'll have a major issue this time.

 

[Goldfish62]

It would like be the case that these buses will be used on college routes in the morning and commercial routes in the day, like the 250 which is a Camborne to penwith college route but after 9am this bus is used on the T1 all day till it return to the 250 at 4.
This will likely be the case with the new L3 and L1 with some of the college buses returning to Helston on a commercial route rather then empty like currently.

Good points.

 

[Lizard1324]

If Helson is a First facility then TfC wouldn’t be able to use it. As rostering buses for fuelling and cleaning buses is something that First (and it's predecessor companies) have been doing in Helston for more than 110 years I doubt they'll have a major issue this time.

First and TfC share the Helston site but I'm unsure if they share facilities. First has always done well with cleaning in Helston with the college buses being destroyed by teenagers with food and other items, but always showing up clean the next morning.

 

[richw]

Here some of the staff saying about it here and there, they're all confused by it now

I don’t see what’s confusing. The duties and bus workings will be worked out by the people who know what’s going on and understand what’s going on and drivers will follow those duty cards. My duty will say pick us bus 12345 at location x, park bus 12345 at location y, take bus 98765 from location y park bus at location at x etc

 

[Yarp1]

Actually working for the company and seeing from outside can give very different views. The buses at Padstow,Kelly Bray, Lee moor plymouth and Exeter dont get fueled at their own depot but either sumnercourt or truro or a petrol station during the day. The duty boards state where and when to fuel and as there are fairly regular drives on the routes they are aware of what needs to be done.
Fortunately most of the time if there is anything new set up that doesn't quite work the drivers tell people who must of the time will listen and if there is a easier or more effective method suggested it will be taken into account and put into practise.doing things the same way as its always been done isnt always the best or most economical

 

[thameslink2000]

New First Kernow and Buses of Somerset summer timetables have now appeared on Traveline http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?language=en

 

[Lizard1324]

New First Kernow and Buses of Somerset summer timetables have now appeared on Traveline http://www.travelinemidlands.co.uk/wmtis/XSLT_SELTT_REQUEST?language=en

The L1/3/5 routes are on there but the L1 hasn't changed, Yet.
There is also route called S1/2/3 which are Newquay to other locations which is interesting.