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First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

Marcus Fryer

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27 Dec 2014
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Did you miss the extended exchange that was had on this subject? Have you checked the TfC site? Checked service registrations?

Not certain we need to return to this subject


I think it was also a question on abbreviations. So CbK being Cornwall by Kernow, BoS Buses of Somerset, AC/LEC Atlantic/Lands End Coaster
And, according to Wikipedia, “ABB Ltd, formerly ASEA Brown Boveri, is a Swedish–Swiss multinational corporation headquartered in Zürich, Switzerland, operating mainly in robotics, power, heavy electrical equipment, and automation technology areas”.
Or alternatively, it could stand for “Adventures by bus”,
 
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Goldfish62

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Looking on Bustimes it's satisfying to see all those new services in operation.

On the open top situation it currently looks like:
Land's End Coaster (LEC): one closed top, rest open top
Falmouth Coaster (FC): open top
Lizard: both closed top
Atlantic Coaster (AC): two open top, three closed top.
 

Andyh82

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If, 10 years ago someone came back from 2021 and showed me all of this, what was First Devon & Cornwall at the time I'd think they were on crack! The improvement over the past few years has been amazing and the latest improvements with these fantastic looking leisure routes is quite impressive, I really hope this pays off and I for one will be looking forward to using some of these services this summer, hats off to those that have made it happen!
Assuming the summer isn’t a wash out, I’d expect the open top services to do well

The biggest risk in my eyes is Daytripper. Both in terms of whether or not it will work, and also the amount of resource deployed (although I know it’s basically using school buses in between trips)

It’s quite complicated to sell, so it’ll be interesting to see if the general public manage to understand it.

Personally I would also have run the return trips about an hour later during the college holidays, some of the more long distance trips (such as to Newquay or Padstow) only allow 2 hours
 

On the Buses

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So... which of the new services (if any) accept Ride Cornwall and also, what does the section I've highlighted in bold mean, because I can't make any sense out of what you've said.
If you buy a Cornwall by Kernow or Buses of Somerset pass it can be used on any current Adventures by Bus product for the period in which it is valid.
If you buy a ticket for an individual Adventure it is only valid for that Adventure.
Ride Cornwall is valid across Cornwall by Kernow and Adventures by Bus in Cornwall.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Somerset with international travel (e.g. across th
Personally I would also have run the return trips about an hour later during the college holidays, some of the more long distance trips (such as to Newquay or Padstow) only allow 2 hours
I’d suggest it’s probably not as easy as that because the schools runs may also have schools hols variants or also have other runs off them.
 

Busgeek

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30 Mar 2021
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Kernow
Does anyone know is the Transport for Cornwall 34 being reduced on the times the L1 serves the Lizard. I'm asking as looking at the two timetables the 34 and L1 both arrive at the lizard at the same time, they then leave 1 minute apart which seems pointless to have two buses.
From the timetables online. No change. But, the L1 is a lesure route. It also doesn't serve Ruan Minor. Instead goes to Kuggar to serve there for the holiday park. This is done on the way to the Lizard ONLY. Where as TfC head back to helston via Ruan minor etc on certain routes.

Again, I stand by what I said. I feel that First should have alternated Kuggar. One trip to the lizard via there, one trip to helston via there. But alter the timetable to take it in for PVR. I'm sure there will be some disgruntled passengers at the lizard wanting to go back to Kuggar, and then seeing, we don't serve it on the way back to helston.

What I would like to ask @onthebuses. Is there the ability to purchase single and returns on the Lizard network?
 

KendalKing

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North Lancs
If I remember rightly the X501/2/3/4 BFJ Lolynes First Devon & Cornwall (correct me if I’m wrong) used to have were 32751/2/3/4, so possibly anything just before those, or maybe 32797/8 if they haven’t been used before.
No record of 32797 or 32798, having been used, nor is there any record of 32730-23750 having been used.
 

gka472l

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29 Apr 2016
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429
No record of 32797 or 32798, having been used, nor is there any record of 32730-23750 having been used.

Just staying with that subject very briefly, have any First fleet numbers ever been re-used at all? Stagecoach has on occasion after a certain period of time has passed.

Thanks.
 

cnjb8

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Just staying with that subject very briefly, have any First fleet numbers ever been re-used at all? Stagecoach has on occasion after a certain period of time has passed.

Thanks.
No, First numbers are never reused.
 

KendalKing

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Just staying with that subject very briefly, have any First fleet numbers ever been re-used at all? Stagecoach has on occasion after a certain period of time has passed.

Thanks.
33790-8 SN13 xxx, which passed to Tower Transit, and 33790-8 YX66 xxx at West of England.
 

83G/84D

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Going on my observations this morning the Lands End Coaster does not serve St Erth railway station as it did previously as the A2. The only services using the station are 17 & Transport for Cornwall 515.
 

Busaholic

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Going on my observations this morning the Lands End Coaster does not serve St Erth railway station as it did previously as the A2. The only services using the station are 17 & Transport for Cornwall 515.
So much for it being a transport hub! Off topic, but how about the white elephant overflow car park being used by G7 protesters?

I'm disappointed that no timetables are yet available at Penzance info office. Together with not having pocket timetable leaflets for train services at Penzance Railway Station, it was a rather wasted journey on my part. 17, 18 and 19 were all being correctly displayed on buses, including rears, whereas yesterday the two I saw were both showing as A17s still, including a Penzance to Pendeen journey! Being a Sunday, at least Madron bound passengers would not have got a nasty shock on boarding.
 
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83G/84D

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The whole transport hub at St Erth has been badly planned and constructed. There is just enough room for 3 buses at the bus stop with no overflow parking for rail replacement or the like. coaches or larger/ wider buses cannot access the big car park as they cannot get through the entrance , signage for parking is not clear enough and cars park in the bus stop causing buses to double park partly blocking the entrance road. Add to that only a couple of regular bus services calling meaning a potentially dangerous crossing of the main road to switch between 17 & T1.

Update:- 32209 seems to have broken down on a Lands End Coaster service. Passengers all transferred to a Gemini on service 17.
 
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richw

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Liskeard
coaches or larger/ wider buses cannot access the big car park as they cannot get through the entrance
When I covered the car park shuttle, I had 42560, and it only went in with an inch or so to spare due to the road angle and gate position.

I think it’s previously been mentioned serving the hub adds around 4 mins to a journey (8 to a round trip) and with tight timings there isn’t time without a pvr increase
 

83G/84D

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When I covered the car park shuttle, I had 42560, and it only went in with an inch or so to spare due to the road angle and gate position.

I think it’s previously been mentioned serving the hub adds around 4 mins to a journey (8 to a round trip) and with tight timings there isn’t time without a pvr increase

Yes indeed it was mentioned previously about the timings / PVR for services to call at the railway station. Maybe when the remaining buses return from SPS it will be possible to at least consider changing the T1 timetable/ PVR to allow services to stop at the station.
 

On the Buses

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Yes indeed it was mentioned previously about the timings / PVR for services to call at the railway station. Maybe when the remaining buses return from SPS it will be possible to at least consider changing the T1 timetable/ PVR to allow services to stop at the station.
Changing the PVR upwards by 1 will cost in the region of £100k per annum.
It’s not about having fleet, it’s about where the £100k comes from!!!
 

B7rleThrasher

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County Cork
Changing the PVR upwards by 1 will cost in the region of £100k per annum.
It’s not about having fleet, it’s about where the £100k comes from!!!

This is often forgotten and would attract gasps of disbelief at local community groups, when I would talk to them about their vulnerable bus service and the fact that their 2 Optare Solos pootling around were costing £200k a year, with a handful of ENCTS cardholders paying their way....
 

iantherev

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3 Apr 2011
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Brecon Beacons
Jeez that is a lot of money for one extra bus!
Well if you think about it, there's an extra vehicle incurring fuel and cost of drivers as well as wear and tear. It brings no increase in frequency to make the service more attractive and means a vehicle will be on layover for longer at the termini. Unless there is a sizeable market who have been prevented from catching the bus from the hub there's unlikely to be any meaningful revenue to cover these costs.
 

83G/84D

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Well if you think about it, there's an extra vehicle incurring fuel and cost of drivers as well as wear and tear. It brings no increase in frequency to make the service more attractive and means a vehicle will be on layover for longer at the termini. Unless there is a sizeable market who have been prevented from catching the bus from the hub there's unlikely to be any meaningful revenue to cover these costs.


Thanks for the explanation, just out of curiosity what would be the average mpg for a double deck bus (E400MMC or Gemini)?
 

On the Buses

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Thanks for the explanation, just out of curiosity what would be the average mpg for a double deck bus (E400MMC or Gemini)?
It’s the ‘or !

They vary according to the work undertaken.

The Gemini will use more fuel
However the MMC needs Adblu

Then the actual cost to us is further amended by the fact that the MMC qualifies for a significantly higher BSOG payment as it is a low carbon certified vehicle.

Well without giving too much away about our costing model if you just take the cost of an hour’s labour with on costs at say £15 and multiply it by 16 hours per day x 364 days you are already at £87360
 
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83G/84D

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I was getting 12mpg out of an E400mmc (Cummins) and 8.5mpg out of a B9TL Gemini

It’s the ‘or !

They vary according to the work undertaken.

The Gemini will use more fuel
However the MMC needs Adblu

Then the actual cost to us is further amended by the fact that the MMC qualifies for a significantly higher BSOG payment as it is a low carbon certified vehicle.

Well without giving too much away about our costing model if you just take the cost of an hour’s labour with on costs at say £15 and multiply it by 16 hours per day x 364 days you are already at £87360


Thanks.It must be enormously expensive to run any bus company based on the figures mentioned especially one the size of First Kernow.
 
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farwest

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25 Apr 2008
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Going on my observations this morning the Lands End Coaster does not serve St Erth railway station as it did previously as the A2. The only services using the station are 17 & Transport for Cornwall 515.
Thanks for letting me know that as I used to get the A2 from St.Erth station. I will get it from the stop on the main road instead. Seems a bit daft as quite a few people used to get the A2 after getting off the train from the Plymouth direction.
 

On the Buses

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And that's cheap, for a bus. I've worked in companies where the cost per vehicle per year was between £110,000 to 150,000 a year. Some of that is down to depreciation policies.
It’s a very rough guide that depends how many hours it’s working. It’s the minimum for a 6 day a week 7-7 bus
 

83G/84D

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No problem, 32209 that broke down this afternoon on the Lands End Coaster service was collected by Jose Recovery.
 

On the Buses

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Thanks for letting me know that as I used to get the A2 from St.Erth station. I will get it from the stop on the main road instead. Seems a bit daft as quite a few people used to get the A2 after getting off the train from the Plymouth direction.
You’ve had the explanation only a few messages prior. Daft to you - £100k cost to us...
 

Busaholic

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Changing the PVR upwards by 1 will cost in the region of £100k per annum.
It’s not about having fleet, it’s about where the £100k comes from!!!
I could name the councillor whose pet project the hub was, so you can bill him direct. Maybe these matters should have been considered by Cornwall Council before they went ahead with it: I did have published a rather satirical letter about it in the local paper at the time, but recent attempts by me to reopen the subject were nobbled. To be even more of an irritant to those in power, I'd ask why, if the intention was to get more people travelling by public transport to St Ives, and given that trains are at full capacity at peak times, the T2 was never pencilled in to serve the station as well, definitely at CC expense.
 

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