First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[RPI]

I could name the councillor whose pet project the hub was, so you can bill him direct. Maybe these matters should have been considered by Cornwall Council before they went ahead with it: I did have published a rather satirical letter about it in the local paper at the time, but recent attempts by me to reopen the subject were nobbled. To be even more of an irritant to those in power, I'd ask why, if the intention was to get more people travelling by public transport to St Ives, and given that trains are at full capacity at peak times, the T2 was never pencilled in to serve the station as well, definitely at CC expense.

I wonder how the change of control in Cornwall Council from the recent elections will affect things?

 

[richw]

I wonder how the change of control in Cornwall Council from the recent elections will affect things?

Geoff Brown lost his seat. He was the main transport man, so we could well see changes. I haven’t seen the new cabinet names yet to make a conclusion what kind of person now holds that portfolio.

 

[83G/84D]

The principal contractor for the St Erth park and ride interchange/ transport hub or whatever you want to call it held a local consultation in the nearby village prior to work starting. Proposals and plans were on show with feedback from the public encouraged.

After all that they came up with a poorly executed scheme with numerous shortcomings that even without the benefit of hindsight I wouldn’t have thought were possible.

Although some may disagree at least the traffic lights on the A30 by the railway station allow traffic to join without a long wait and slows traffic down,along this road with residential properties nearby.

 

[Busaholic]

The principal contractor for the St Erth park and ride interchange/ transport hub or whatever you want to call it held a local consultation in the nearby village prior to work starting. Proposals and plans were on show with feedback from the public encouraged.

After all that they came up with a poorly executed scheme with numerous shortcomings that even without the benefit of hindsight I wouldn’t have thought were possible.

Although some may disagree at least the traffic lights on the A30 by the railway station allow traffic to join without a long wait and slows traffic down,along this road with residential properties nearby.

As a regular user of the roads in the area, agree with you re the traffic lights. A consultation about the plans in general taking place in the village, though, was a case of going through required motions. Other than that junction, the Park and Ride would have been of no interest or use to local residents. A red herring was dropped into it all by pretence that the then Scilly helicopter operators were considering a site in St Erth to replace the Penzance heliport, winding the local populace up to divert attention from the 'hub' proposals.

 

[Cesarcollie]

It’s the ‘or !

They vary according to the work undertaken.

The Gemini will use more fuel
However the MMC needs Adblu

Then the actual cost to us is further amended by the fact that the MMC qualifies for a significantly higher BSOG payment as it is a low carbon certified vehicle.

Well without giving too much away about our costing model if you just take the cost of an hour’s labour with on costs at say £15 and multiply it by 16 hours per day x 364 days you are already at £87360

Quite. Indeed £100k pa is low. If you take the driver cost above, add fuel, maintenance (quite low when the bus is new but increases rapidly, and even when new requires consumables, regular inspections etc), insurance, depreciation ( a £230k decker over 15 years is circa £15k per annum), finance costs etc etc - you’ll be much nearer to £150k pa and easily higher if higher mileage.... The public (and most enthusiasts!) have absolutely no idea how expensive it really is to run a bus! Sadly, neither do some operators......

 

[On the Buses]

Quite. Indeed £100k pa is low. If you take the driver cost above, add fuel, maintenance (quite low when the bus is new but increases rapidly, and even when new requires consumables, regular inspections etc), insurance, depreciation ( a £230k decker over 15 years is circa £15k per annum), finance costs etc etc - you’ll be much nearer to £150k pa and easily higher if higher mileage.... The public (and most enthusiasts!) have absolutely no idea how expensive it really is to run a bus! Sadly, neither do some operators......

Except of course in the context of this situation the mileage wouldn’t increase.

 

[Busaholic]

I wonder how the change of control in Cornwall Council from the recent elections will affect things?

The councillor I was referring to was reselected.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Except of course in the context of this situation the mileage wouldn’t increase.

Doh! Just testing.....!!

 

[Bill Badger]

Whilst I understand the reasons for not diverting to St Erth Interchange particularly for the T1, the Lands End Coaster is primarily a tourist route so needs to make it easy to pick up tourists and St Erth Station is somewhere they will arrive.

What exacerbates the problem is there is no information where to catch the buses when one arrives at the station. It is a good 5-10 minute walk to the Lamb & Flag or the Garden Centre stops. I've no idea if the unofficial stop on the main road is still observered but even if it is there is no indication for those not in the know.

At the very least the Council needs to accept the Interchange hasn't worked and reintroduce stops on the main road and both First Kernow and the Council need to tell people where to catch their buses!!

 

[RPI]

Whilst I understand the reasons for not diverting to St Erth Interchange particularly for the T1, the Lands End Coaster is primarily a tourist route so needs to make it easy to pick up tourists and St Erth Station is somewhere they will arrive.

What exacerbates the problem is there is no information where to catch the buses when one arrives at the station. It is a good 5-10 minute walk to the Lamb & Flag or the Garden Centre stops. I've no idea if the unofficial stop on the main road is still observered but even if it is there is no indication for those not in the know.

At the very least the Council needs to accept the Interchange hasn't worked and reintroduce stops on the main road and both First Kernow and the Council need to tell people where to catch their buses!!

To be honest its probably easier to just stay on the train to Penzance and catch the Lands End coaster from there, or St Ives.

 

[On the Buses]

To be honest its probably easier to just stay on the train to Penzance and catch the Lands End coaster from there, or St Ives.

Or get the train to St Ives!

 

[RPI]

Or get the train to St Ives!

Thats what I meant by St Ives, though I wasn't that clear. Best of both worlds, scenic trip to St Ives by train then Lands End Coaster around to Penzance and train back to wherever from there, all covered on a ride Cornwall ticket. The section of road from St Erth to St Ives is probably the only part of the bus journey that isn't that pretty too.

 

[83G/84D]

Or get the train to St Ives!

Not in a month’s time though as the line will be closed as the G7 summit takes place.

 

[embers25]

Not in a month’s time though as the line will be closed as the G7 summit takes place.

True but it won't be a place you'd want to be in that period anyway I imagine.

 

[83G/84D]

True but it won't be a place you'd want to be in that period anyway I imagine.

Not me but I am sure some mischief makers will be heading that way.

Solo 53704 on the St Erth station car park service whilst 53504 was on a service 17 earlier & still displaying the old route number.

 

[Busaholic]

Or get the train to St Ives!

Straight from the horse's mouth! You're not Gerald Ratner, by any chance?

 

[embers25]

Straight from the horse's mouth! You're not Gerald Ratner, by any chance?

Actually thats sensible advice as I'm sure First would rather people board for the St Just/Lands End bit at St Ives as then the St Erth-St Ives bit has enough space for the St Ives Holiday Park crowd using the service into St Ives. Also, a train ticket for most to St Erth is the same as to St Ives and the train is faster and more scenic over that short bit. Also if it does get overloaded, First provide the back up rail replacement buses from St Erth to St Ives which is additional revenue that the Coaster may take away from. The Lands End Coaster works so well due to distinct passenger turnover en route ensuring maximising of revenue.

 

[Busaholic]

Actually thats sensible advice as I'm sure First would rather people board for the St Just/Lands End bit at St Ives as then the St Erth-St Ives bit has enough space for the St Ives Holiday Park crowd using the service into St Ives. Also, a train ticket for most to St Erth is the same as to St Ives and the train is faster and more scenic over that short bit. Also if it does get overloaded, First provide the back up rail replacement buses from St Erth to St Ives which is additional revenue that the Coaster may take away from. The Lands End Coaster works so well due to distinct passenger turnover en route ensuring maximising of revenue.

I don't doubt it's sensible, impartial advice in the round, but I look for partiality from a bus operator, in public statements at least! There are also genuine problems with overcrowding on the St Ives line trains such that many are unable to board in the summer months, which you might say are exacerbated by the presence of a large car park at St Erth provided by the council on the basis that a family can easily leave their car and hop on a train, or bus, to make the journey hassle-free. I'm not in the least criticising the bus company for not making full use of the interchange: it was up to Cornwall Council imo to sort this out, preferably before opening, and make the necessary arrangements to reimburse First for at least some of the extra costs involved.

 

[SeveerYeliab]

Buses magazine has published an article in the latest edition about the new routes. Rather interestingly it states that the S1/2/3 will be run with the ex-eastbourne deckers (which we know) but also with 2 converted Enviro 200s with open side windows. Not sure if this has yet been reported? Also, does the S prefix stand for anything on these routes?

 

[cnjb8]

Buses magazine has published an article in the latest edition about the new routes. Rather interestingly it states that the S1/2/3 will be run with the ex-eastbourne deckers (which we know) but also with 2 converted Enviro 200s with open side windows. Not sure if this has yet been reported? Also, does the S prefix stand for anything on these routes?

Maybe the converted E200s is in reference to the open top E400s, very strange though

 

[swifty]

Buses magazine has published an article in the latest edition about the new routes. Rather interestingly it states that the S1/2/3 will be run with the ex-eastbourne deckers (which we know) but also with 2 converted Enviro 200s with open side windows. Not sure if this has yet been reported? Also, does the S prefix stand for anything on these routes?

Sounds very interesting! I’d heard 2 x E200s from the 440xx batch at BoS are heading to Cornwall, along with the 2 x Scanias they had on loan, with the 5 Darts due in exchange from Kernow? Could be those 2 heading for a conversion? I’m sure @On the Buses will reveal all soon!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sounds very interesting! I’d heard 2 x E200s from the 440xx batch at BoS are heading to Cornwall, along with the 2 x Scanias they had on loan, with the 5 Darts due in exchange from Kernow? Could be those 2 heading for a conversion? I’m sure @On the Buses will reveal all soon!

Very interesting.

Coincidentally enough, was working in Yeovil the other day and 44077/78 were in the bus station along with 65725. Didn't think I'd see that one again tbh

 

[Lizard1324]

2 converted Enviro 200s with open side windows.

Would be interesting to see.
Are there many open top single deckers in the country, if any?

 

[fgwrich]

Would be interesting to see.
Is there many opne top single deckers in the country if any?

In short, Yes.

Quantock had Alexander PS R928 XVM converted to part open top, to work the 300. It later passed to West Coast Motors who used it both in the Scottish Borders and in Oban.

West Coast M800WCM

West Coast Motors partial open top Alexander PS M800WCM (R928XVM) ex Stagecoach 20298 is seen outside Oban Rail Station ready to begin its last tour of the day, 3rd September

www.flickr.com

Borders Buses: 19702 / M800WCM

Borders Buses' "CitySightseeing Scottish Borders" branded Volvo B10M-52/Alexander PS 19702 (M800 WCM) is pictured here at Scott's View, Bemersyde, whilst working the Scottish Borders City Sightseeing service. 08/07/17 This vehicle was new to Greater Manchester South in September 1997 as fleet...

www.flickr.com

However, the most bonkers Open Top single deck conversions have to go to the two Bristol RE's - TDL564K - known affectionally as the Shankins Pony, and former United Counties PHN178L - Both Bristol RE's survive in preservation, TDL having last been used as recently as 2018 on the Mendip Mule service in East Devon. Unsurprisingly TDL is a little bit more stronger than PHN - which did flex a little more than the remains of it's body should!

TDL 564K Bristol RE Open Top. Southern Vectis

TDL 564K Bristol RE. Taken at Shanklin Rail Station in the early 1990's whilst in service with Southern Vectis.

www.flickr.com

BXI2565, PHN178L n

BXI 2565 and PHN 178L at Blackgang Chine on the Isle of Wight 21 August 2005

www.flickr.com

 

[carlberry]

In short, Yes.

Quantock had Alexander PS R928 XVM converted to part open top, to work the 300. It later passed to West Coast Motors who used it both in the Scottish Borders and in Oban.



However, the most bonkers Open Top single deck conversions have to go to the two Bristol RE's - TDL564K - known affectionally as the Shankins Pony, and former United Counties PHN178L - Both Bristol RE's survive in preservation, TDL having last been used as recently as 2018 on the Mendip Mule service in East Devon. Unsurprisingly TDL is a little bit more stronger than PHN - which did flex a little more than the remains of it's body should!

I'd suggest most bonkers would be the minibuses (REs are always a class above!).
C407VVN

 

[charlie1284]

In short, Yes.

Quantock had Alexander PS R928 XVM converted to part open top, to work the 300. It later passed to West Coast Motors who used it both in the Scottish Borders and in Oban.

West Coast M800WCM

West Coast Motors partial open top Alexander PS M800WCM (R928XVM) ex Stagecoach 20298 is seen outside Oban Rail Station ready to begin its last tour of the day, 3rd September

www.flickr.com

Borders Buses: 19702 / M800WCM

Borders Buses' "CitySightseeing Scottish Borders" branded Volvo B10M-52/Alexander PS 19702 (M800 WCM) is pictured here at Scott's View, Bemersyde, whilst working the Scottish Borders City Sightseeing service. 08/07/17 This vehicle was new to Greater Manchester South in September 1997 as fleet...

www.flickr.com

However, the most bonkers Open Top single deck conversions have to go to the two Bristol RE's - TDL564K - known affectionally as the Shankins Pony, and former United Counties PHN178L - Both Bristol RE's survive in preservation, TDL having last been used as recently as 2018 on the Mendip Mule service in East Devon. Unsurprisingly TDL is a little bit more stronger than PHN - which did flex a little more than the remains of it's body should!

TDL 564K Bristol RE Open Top. Southern Vectis

TDL 564K Bristol RE. Taken at Shanklin Rail Station in the early 1990's whilst in service with Southern Vectis.

www.flickr.com

BXI2565, PHN178L n

BXI 2565 and PHN 178L at Blackgang Chine on the Isle of Wight 21 August 2005

www.flickr.com

I very much doubt the enviro 200s would be open top given that the magazine says 'open-sided windows'. I imagine they will be like the ex IOW Shanklin steamer Volvo B10Bs.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/marty...g-2g3JqiA-o1UVW8-paRx8B-pUijuX-nDWMPY-2kWNmgG

 

[On the Buses]

Straight from the horse's mouth! You're not Gerald Rattner, by any chance?

I don't doubt it's sensible, impartial advice in the round, but I look for partiality from a bus operator, in public statements at least! There are also genuine problems with overcrowding on the St Ives line trains such that many are unable to board in the summer months, which you might say are exacerbated by the presence of a large car park at St Erth provided by the council on the basis that a family can easily leave their car and hop on a train, or bus, to make the journey hassle-free. I'm not in the least criticising the bus company for not making full use of the interchange: it was up to Cornwall Council imo to sort this out, preferably before opening, and make the necessary arrangements to reimburse First for at least some of the extra costs involved.

You’re missing my point. It was about someone arriving by train to St Erth - why would anyone advise them to get off the train to St Ives to get the bus to St Ives

 

[83G/84D]

Whilst I understand the reasons for not diverting to St Erth Interchange particularly for the T1, the Lands End Coaster is primarily a tourist route so needs to make it easy to pick up tourists and St Erth Station is somewhere they will arrive.

What exacerbates the problem is there is no information where to catch the buses when one arrives at the station. It is a good 5-10 minute walk to the Lamb & Flag or the Garden Centre stops. I've no idea if the unofficial stop on the main road is still observered but even if it is there is no indication for those not in the know.

At the very least the Council needs to accept the Interchange hasn't worked and reintroduce stops on the main road and both First Kernow and the Council need to tell people where to catch their buses!!

I checked the area on the main road by the petrol station yesterday. The temporary bus stop flags that were there have been removed and there do not appear to be any stops in place on either side of the road. I can only assume that, as you mentioned, the nearest stops are Lamb and Flag or Lelant garden centre for services not calling at the station.

 

[Trainfan061193]

Does anyone know when the second Lizard OT President is going to attempt to come down again? Last time I heard it broke down after it left ensign, I also heard the other one is still at Camborne currently being prepared. Hopefully they’ll be running by the time I come down end of next month!

 

[cnjb8]

Have any of the new services started yet? Is it just Falmouth Coaster, DayTripper and the Exeter tour bus so far?
Thank you