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First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

northern506

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Yes


Staff unavailability. Cornwall has some challenges last week and this.

Thanks for the explanation, I can understand that there may be staff unavailability especially in current times.

Might have been good to provide information that these services aren't operating on social media though, considering they haven't operating for consecutive days?
 
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On the Buses

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Thanks for the explanation, I can understand that there may be staff unavailability especially in current times.

Might have been good to provide information that these services aren't operating on social media though, considering they haven't operating for consecutive days?
It’s very much at the time - we’ve been just able to make the run out but if anything goes wrong (including traffic congestion) then we pass the point of having any mitigation I’m afraid.
These are effectively the last two staff lines across a 280 staff group and two that can be unpicked from the inter working of staff across the whole network. I’m afraid that means if things fall apart on the day they are the forst to fall
Our whole team - Operations Engineering and Commercial have a daily ‘kitchen sink’ joint operation to keep everything running. Unfortunately the unpredictability of traffic and staff availability for obvious local reasons is high at present. This is despite us bringing in 27 drivers from across the UK and Ireland businesses to help (which in itself means we don’t have full flexibility of staff utilisation). Sorry but we’re hopeful that availability will not deteriorate further and that as a result we will have breathing space as soon as colleges break (after 2 July)
Point taken on Twitter and will follow up
 

Goldfish62

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Why not? If you’re referring to the E400s a company may well choose to put its newer/better vehicles on a competitive route.....
I don't buy that at all. Generally you put the best vehicles on the routes with the best revenue to maximise the return on the investment. This is why, for example, the 18 and successors have consistently had the newest and highest quality vehicles over the years.

It's why, for example, that Transdev regularly upgrades the Witchway through refurbishment or new vehicles, but uses quite elderly (refurbished) vehicles on routes which are never likely to be high revenue generators. Many other examples everywhere.

As an aside 2018's fantastic investment in new double decks for supported (and some commercial) services in the east and the council's backing for GCB's investment in 17 new double decks for supported services were something of a surprise. It's certainly not a common practice on the simple basis that if a route needs double decks for capacity then the revenue generated should mean it's commercially viable without support.

Why would they not return to Summercourt though?
Because some of the routes they operated on are no longer operated by FK?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I don't buy that at all. Generally you put the best vehicles on the routes with the best revenue to maximise the return on the investment. This is why, for example, the 18 and successors have consistently had the newest and highest quality vehicles over the years.
Both can happen. Often, those routes that are most lucrative are most likely to receive investment but may also to attract competition or that the investment has the effect of deterring competition.

In this instance, it seems rather academic as the 27 isn't a competitive situation. First run commercially and the Go Ahead journeys are council supported outside of those times, much as was the case with the Tinners (and still is on the evening element to Penzance). Also, it seems that U4 isn't going to receive MMCs; First will have calculated the commercial and college revenues and that will decide where the MMCs do end up on their return.
 

Goldfish62

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Both can happen. Often, those routes that are most lucrative are most likely to receive investment but may also to attract competition or that the investment has the effect of deterring competition.

In this instance, it seems rather academic as the 27 isn't a competitive situation. First run commercially and the Go Ahead journeys are council supported outside of those times, much as was the case with the Tinners (and still is on the evening element to Penzance). Also, it seems that U4 isn't going to receive MMCs; First will have calculated the commercial and college revenues and that will decide where the MMCs do end up on their return.
Yes, all good points. Can't argue with that.

And I stand corrected re the 27. I had it in my mind that it was an all day supported service. Far too far east to be in my zone of attention!!!
 
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83G/84D

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Mousehole Solo 53826 is in Camborne, perhaps it was missing it's companion 53709 that has spent a number of weeks there and is still present!

Scania 65725 on Tinner duties.
 

Busaholic

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There are no Mousehole-liveried Solos currently on the M6.
They are becoming fuller with local passengers, particularly shoppers, on the Newlyn to Penzance section too because of (a) the decision by Cornwall Council to divert the 5 away from the Newlyn Bridge stop in order to serve fresh air instead and (b) First's decision to put all its eggs into the Land's End Coaster basket at the expense of local A1 passengers, leaving Alexandra Road unserved and making life difficult for Market Jew Street shoppers.
 

Goldfish62

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They are becoming fuller with local passengers, particularly shoppers, on the Newlyn to Penzance section too because of (a) the decision by Cornwall Council to divert the 5 away from the Newlyn Bridge stop in order to serve fresh air instead and (b) First's decision to put all its eggs into the Land's End Coaster basket at the expense of local A1 passengers, leaving Alexandra Road unserved and making life difficult for Market Jew Street shoppers.
Yes, agreed. The market for the Town Centre-Alverton-Newlyn and on to Mousehole corridor is pretty much there on a plate. I'm not sure, though, the Mousehole brand does anything for it currently due to the unreliability and general scruffiness of the current vehicles.
 

teggers419

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They are becoming fuller with local passengers, particularly shoppers, on the Newlyn to Penzance section too because of (a) the decision by Cornwall Council to divert the 5 away from the Newlyn Bridge stop in order to serve fresh air instead and (b) First's decision to put all its eggs into the Land's End Coaster basket at the expense of local A1 passengers, leaving Alexandra Road unserved and making life difficult for Market Jew Street shoppers.
Agree with some of that but from past experience of my many visits in the last few years the route for the Lands End Coaster out of Penzance is so much better to serve the seafront as it caters for the longer distance customers and the delays getting into and out of town severely affected the timetable. Now they are managing JUST a ten minute turnaround in PZ thus alleviating an extra vehicle on the whole circuit down from 9 to 8 which is commercial sense.
 

Goldfish62

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Agree with some of that but from past experience of my many visits in the last few years the route for the Lands End Coaster out of Penzance is so much better to serve the seafront as it caters for the longer distance customers and the delays getting into and out of town severely affected the timetable. Now they are managing JUST a ten minute turnaround in PZ thus alleviating an extra vehicle on the whole circuit down from 9 to 8 which is commercial sense.
Yet a full allocation of open toppers on the route is still the exception rather than the norm.

As you say, the operational benefits are clear, plus it gives tourists a nicer view.

Unfortunately all the disbenefits are on the local passengers who travel to and from the town centre. It mustn't be forgotten that the route is there primarily as a socially-necessary service for outlying communities to the west of Penzance, but has been very well exploited as a tourist route over recent years.
 

GBM

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Penzance town is still served by the St Just/Madron services, plus the 5, 6 and 16's (on occasions?).
I'm sure I saw a 16 (or variant) around Treneer a week or so ago
 

Goldfish62

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Penzance town is still served by the St Just/Madron services, plus the 5, 6 and 16's (on occasions?).
I'm sure I saw a 16 (or variant) around Treneer a week or so ago
The full list excluding schools journeys is 2, 5, M6, 8, 16,18,19. But I don't see the relevance. They're completely different routes that don't serve St Buryan, Treen, Porthcurno, Polgigga, Sennen, etc.
 

embers25

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Unfortunately all the disbenefits are on the local passengers who travel to and from the town centre. It mustn't be forgotten that the route is there primarily as a socially-necessary service for outlying communities to the west of Penzance, but has been very well exploited as a tourist route over recent years.
Worth remembering that were it not a tourist route it would likely be running every 2-3 hours at absolute best not hourly and so the locals are also clearly benefiting and the walk from Market Jew St to the Bus Station is down hill when shopping laden, not that onerous and managed just fine by those coming in from the East on Tinners. Worst case catch a different local bus up and down as they'll likely have an OAP pass. The delays passing through Market Jew Street don't justify doing it in my view as they can be very substantial and crawling round the back roads just before is equally slow so it makes complete sense in my view both commercially and for passengers. For locals they also now have more likelihood of making train and onward bus connections than before due to reduced congestion delays.
 

GBM

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Many of the passengers on the Landsend run mostly alighted between Newlyn and the top of Gwavas/Chywoone Hill.
This was a few years ago mind, but mostly 'local' traffic, leaving only a few to continue towards the far West.
 

Goldfish62

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Worth remembering that were it not a tourist route it would likely be running every 2-3 hours at absolute best not hourly and so the locals are also clearly benefiting and the walk from Market Jew St to the Bus Station is down hill when shopping laden, not that onerous and managed just fine by those coming in from the East on Tinners. Worst case catch a different local bus up and down as they'll likely have an OAP pass. The delays passing through Market Jew Street don't justify doing it in my view as they can be very substantial and crawling round the back roads just before is equally slow so it makes complete sense in my view both commercially and for passengers. For locals they also now have more likelihood of making train and onward bus connections than before due to reduced congestion delays.
Yes, a good point regarding frequency of course.

Not such a good point saying that the walk to or from the bus station that wasn't needed before is just fine. The point is taking away something that was there before.

You seem to be attributing all the delays to the A1/2/3 over the years to Penzance Town centre, which is simply not true. The main delays occur on the sections of route where the roads are not wide enough for two vehicles to pass. They section of route between Treen and the Porthcurno turn is a particular bottleneck, as is almost anywhere between Morvah and Zennor. Also, Chywoone Hill is increasingly horrendous because it simply cannot take the volume of traffic combined with parking all the way up. Unfortunately it's the only road that can be used to serve Lamorna even if you decided to leave Gwavas Turn and Sheffield exclusively to the 5.

It's obviously a commercial decision by First Kernow and I understand why they've made it. However, personally as someone who has been intimate with the area for well half a century and a strong advocate of bus use I don't particularly like it.
 
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embers25

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Fully agree delays occur on the sections you mention and can be very substantial but so can the town delays, albeit to a lesser extent, inbound particularly it can often be 10 to 15 mins and, unlike the other locations, this is an avoidable delay so makes sense to avoid it. I appreciate it takes away something that was there before but so would reducing to 2 hourly frequency to maintain PVR due to these extra avoidable town centre delays. May be the solution is a loop with outbound ones going via town as delays are less that way.
 

Goldfish62

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Fully agree delays occur on the sections you mention and can be very substantial but so can the town delays, albeit to a lesser extent, inbound particularly it can often be 10 to 15 mins and, unlike the other locations, this is an avoidable delay so makes sense to avoid it. I appreciate it takes away something that was there before but so would reducing to 2 hourly frequency to maintain PVR due to these extra avoidable town centre delays. May be the solution is a loop with outbound ones going via town as delays are less that way.
I think that might be an equitable solution.

One thing on the inward routing - there's no stop at Jubilee Pool, unsurprisingly because there's nowhere suitable to site one, which means that there are no stops between Wherrytown Co-Op and the bus station. That's quite a way!
 

embers25

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I think that might be an equitable solution.

One thing on the inward routing - there's no stop at Jubilee Pool, unsurprisingly because there's nowhere suitable to site one, which means that there are no stops between Wherrytown Co-Op and the bus station. That's quite a way!
I do agree that the Jubilee Pool stopping situation is far from ideal and needs resolving with adequate provision provided both ways if this routing is to stay. My guess is that it's a trial by First to see how much time it does save in reality and if successful will stay. One other benefit of missing Market Jew is you avoid the tourist fare faff you always get there which can be better accommodated for at the bus station, particularly with the ticket selling bus they currently have stationed there which will sometimes be saving a fair bit of time on the outbound trip currently.
 

Goldfish62

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Roger French has made a second, successful, attempt at an open top trip on the Exmoor Explorer and he gives it an excellent write-up in his Bus & Coach User blog. Unfortunately I can't post the link as the associated article which I would also need to copy and paste is rather long.

It clearly seems from the loadings especially given the initial lack of publicity and one open topper missing much of the time that this route out of all the new (Ad) ventures is likely to have a good future.

It's all the more disappointing and surprising that in contrast the Dartmoor Explorer still has such poor loadings. Maybe the additional return journey from the Exeter end being introduced next month will increase its attractiveness.
 

cnjb8

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Roger French has made a second, successful, attempt at an open top trip on the Exmoor Explorer and he gives it an excellent write-up in his Bus & Coach User blog. Unfortunately I can't post the link as the associated article which I would also need to copy and paste is rather long.

It clearly seems from the loadings especially given the initial lack of publicity and one open topper missing much of the time that this route out of all the new (Ad) ventures is likely to have a good future.

It's all the more disappointing and surprising that in contrast the Dartmoor Explorer still has such poor loadings. Maybe the additional return journey from the Exeter end being introduced next month will increase its attractiveness.
Dartmoor should do better in the summer holidays. Schools aren’t out yet and I don’t think many people use Dartmoor Explorer to commute
 

Goldfish62

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Dartmoor should do better in the summer holidays. Schools aren’t out yet and I don’t think many people use Dartmoor Explorer to commute
I doubt if many people use the Exmoor Explorer to commute either!
 

S.Jacket

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A Lands End Coaster Gemimi is out on the Atlantic Coaster today, as seen passing through Watergate Bay earlier heading north towards Padstow.
 
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Busaholic

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Fully agree delays occur on the sections you mention and can be very substantial but so can the town delays, albeit to a lesser extent, inbound particularly it can often be 10 to 15 mins and, unlike the other locations, this is an avoidable delay so makes sense to avoid it. I appreciate it takes away something that was there before but so would reducing to 2 hourly frequency to maintain PVR due to these extra avoidable town centre delays. May be the solution is a loop with outbound ones going via town as delays are less that way.
I'm afraid you are well out-of-date concerning the delays in Market Jew Street that have disappeared now that non bus/taxi traffic is banned westbound from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. and eastbound cars/vans/lorries that were theoretically banned twenty years ago now heed the new 'no entry' signs plus red bus lane markings I'd been pressing the council to introduce for nearly two decades! The Promenade, Ross Bridge and Wharf Road are now subject to a lot more traffic and delays/queues there are a regular occurrence, especially in inclement weather. I live on Chapel Street 200 yards from MJS and use all these roads on a many times of the day basis, both as a pedestrian and a driver, although I'm forced to do more of the latter now that my mobility is restricted. It is since the latter occurred that I realised how hilly Penzance can be and how challenging if you're trying to carry shopping as well as using a stick. Incidentally, in the course of adopting the new traffic scheme for MJS Cornwall Council have fouled up by closing one of the two traffic lanes on the one way system between the station and the new Premier Inn, so westbound traffic blocks Chyandour Cliff and can impede Long Rock based ambulances trying to get into Pz.
 

Goldfish62

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Incidentally, in the course of adopting the new traffic scheme for MJS Cornwall Council have fouled up by closing one of the two traffic lanes on the one way system between the station and the new Premier Inn, so westbound traffic blocks Chyandour Cliff and can impede Long Rock based ambulances trying to get into Pz.
Agreed that Market Jew Street is a lot quieter now, plus the relocated westbound stop is in a much improved location.

I don't understand what the council is playing at with the station gyratory. The queues coming into town along Chyandour Cliff have only been made worse than they already were as a result.
 

Busaholic

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Penzance town is still served by the St Just/Madron services, plus the 5, 6 and 16's (on occasions?).
I'm sure I saw a 16 (or variant) around Treneer a week or so ago
The 16 and 16A both serve Treneer, but Transport for Cornwall don't include their timetables on Market Jew Street stops or make any reference as to their existence! This applies to the St Ives direction (and Gulval) as well.
 

richw

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It's all the more disappointing and surprising that in contrast the Dartmoor Explorer still has such poor loadings.
When I’ve driven it on dry days I’ve had good numbers, on less pleasant days It’s been empty.
A fair few elderly regulars have been gained already, mostly to visit a Tea Room at Princetown that seems popular with them, or just to ride out and enjoy the scenery. They go to Mortonhampstead and sit in the bus shelter during the hour layover.
 

Goldfish62

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When I’ve driven it on dry days I’ve had good numbers, on less pleasant days It’s been empty.
A fair few elderly regulars have been gained already, mostly to visit a Tea Room at Princetown that seems popular with them, or just to ride out and enjoy the scenery. They go to Mortonhampstead and sit in the bus shelter during the hour layover.
That's good to know. It's just that in the photos I've seen, plus reports from those who have travelled on it loadings have been very low so far.
 

MarkC

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That's good to know. It's just that in the photos I've seen, plus reports from those who have travelled on it loadings have been very low so far.
I think one problem is that it does not have very good connections from Plymouth. Only 1 each way from Plymouth to Tavistock. If I want to go out to say Princetown or Moretonhampstead I barely have time for cup of coffee before bus back. I appreciate there is Stagecoach service 1 from Plymouth but this makes it very expensive to pay £6 to Stagecoach then the ,£10 Dartmoor Explorer fare to First
 

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