First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

[freetoview33]

TBH I’m not so sure anything can be read forward into the future, given the present wider circumstances. With operators all over the country relying on governmental support just to survive, frivolities such as launching a new route brand will be very much on the back-burner.

If anything in the West of England the route branding and repainting has increased of late.

 

[AB93]

To be fair most of the Streetdecks are on the 75/76 with the B9TL Geminis on the 90/91/92

All those routes interwork currently.

 

[Private Baxter]

From observations over the last few days, it appears safe to conclude that Service 90 route-branding is now extinct. No Streetdecks with the red fronts are now carry this branding.

Does that include those that said "Proudly serving South Bristol"?

If anything in the West of England the route branding and repainting has increased of late.

Agreed. Despite everything, the repaint program is going on a pace.

 

[Markk1990]

Does that include those that said "Proudly serving South Bristol"?

Agreed. Despite everything, the repaint program is going on a pace.

It makes sense to crack on with a refresh programme whilst vehicle requirement is low and likely to be as low as it ever will be. Costs for refresh will have already been taken into account before lockdowns/low patronage. The big spends, i.e. VOR and new orders are likely to take the biggest hit when fund are low and cashflow is king.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

Does that include those that said "Proudly serving South Bristol"?

That branding is still around, it‘s just the branding specific to the 90, including the list of routeing points, that appears to have been abolished.

Points taken about the repaint work

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

That branding is still around, it‘s just the branding specific to the 90, including the list of routeing points, that appears to have been abolished.

Points taken about the repaint work

I think the removal of the 90 specific stuff is just that.... the vehicles are working a range of routes so it's a bit superfluous and even if they remove the interworking with the 75/76 when normality returns, it is more flexible with a pool of vehicles for the 90/91/92.

They are cracking on with the repaints probably because of the unique financial position and the reduced vehicle requirement at the moment.

Having had a rare trip into Bristol today (medical appointment not a jolly) and saw some interesting bits and pieces. 66734 expired on 72A opposite the bus station entrance, 69253 hard at work on the 72A too, 66723 on the 93x (I think), and one I've not seen before but might be common, an e200 (44520) on the 72.

However, one thing I hadn't realised is that whilst 37757-67 were refurbished for the 24, I passed 37770 on the 92 and whilst it is still in Urban, it also now has @Private Baxter favourite green and blue seating too.

 

[Citistar]

Speaking of repaints and new lettering - i passed 33415 in Nailsea today, which was proudly proclaiming that it was Euro 6 compliant. I didn't think upgrades were possible on vehicles as old as that. A 56 reg vehicle will at absolute most have been Euro 4 and possibly only 3, so i'm struggling to believe that they were possible to upgrade without fitting a whole new engine, which to my mind seems prohibitively expensive for a 15 year old vehicle.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Speaking of repaints and new lettering - i passed 33415 in Nailsea today, which was proudly proclaiming that it was Euro 6 compliant. I didn't think upgrades were possible on vehicles as old as that. A 56 reg vehicle will at absolute most have been Euro 4 and possibly only 3, so i'm struggling to believe that they were possible to upgrade without fitting a whole new engine, which to my mind seems prohibitively expensive for a 15 year old vehicle.

I confess I'm not of a technical persuasion but they should be Euro IV and I think the exhaust systems can be modified to meet the Euro VI standards. I think it might also be the reason why most First training buses are being replaced by 2005 Eclipses, being the oldest vehicles that can be so treated.

That said, I'm probably wrong and look forward to being corrected

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Speaking of repaints and new lettering - i passed 33415 in Nailsea today, which was proudly proclaiming that it was Euro 6 compliant. I didn't think upgrades were possible on vehicles as old as that. A 56 reg vehicle will at absolute most have been Euro 4 and possibly only 3, so i'm struggling to believe that they were possible to upgrade without fitting a whole new engine, which to my mind seems prohibitively expensive for a 15 year old vehicle.

The oldest vehicles that can be upgraded to Euro 6 are Euro 3 ones. National Express West Midlands have a large number of 2002-2004 Dennis Tridents that have been done, plus Volvo B7TLs of the same age.

 

[-Colly405-]

Speaking of Euro6, I've noticed a number of gas buses sporting the "clean Euro6" sticker. Is that right? DOes Euro6 apply to gas as well as diesel buses?

 

[cnjb8]

Speaking of Euro6, I've noticed a number of gas buses sporting the "clean Euro6" sticker. Is that right? DOes Euro6 apply to gas as well as diesel buses?

Yes, it applies to all buses. Gas buses are low emission buses so they comply with Euro 6 regulations

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Speaking of Euro6, I've noticed a number of gas buses sporting the "clean Euro6" sticker. Is that right? DOes Euro6 apply to gas as well as diesel buses?

Following a couple of deckers on the 376, they also had Clean Air Zone Compliant vinyls on the rear

 

[ValleyLines142]

From observations over the last few days, it appears safe to conclude that Service 90 route-branding is now extinct. No Streetdecks with the red fronts are now carry this branding.

35143 is still in 90 branding. Was on the 76 in Henbury last week.

 

[Private Baxter]

I think the removal of the 90 specific stuff is just that.... the vehicles are working a range of routes so it's a bit superfluous and even if they remove the interworking with the 75/76 when normality returns, it is more flexible with a pool of vehicles for the 90/91/92.

They are cracking on with the repaints probably because of the unique financial position and the reduced vehicle requirement at the moment.

Having had a rare trip into Bristol today (medical appointment not a jolly) and saw some interesting bits and pieces. 66734 expired on 72A opposite the bus station entrance, 69253 hard at work on the 72A too, 66723 on the 93x (I think), and one I've not seen before but might be common, an e200 (44520) on the 72.

However, one thing I hadn't realised is that whilst 37757-67 were refurbished for the 24, I passed 37770 on the 92 and whilst it is still in Urban, it also now has @Private Baxter favourite green and blue seating too.

Thanks for the updates on the remaining B7RLEs. One wonders how much longer they have, if not bound by the same requirements as in Bath. So that's four still in service, in varying conditions. I think I mentioned 66723 working the 8 the other day, which was a nice change. Plus there are whatever 55 reg ones remaining, and thanks I had quite forgotten about 69253.

 

[Markk1990]

Thanks for the updates on the remaining B7RLEs. One wonders how much longer they have, if not bound by the same requirements as in Bath. So that's four still in service, in varying conditions. I think I mentioned 66723 working the 8 the other day, which was a nice change. Plus there are whatever 55 reg ones remaining, and thanks I had quite forgotten about 69253.

Are they needed post-pandemic?

if so then I don't see them going anywhere as there certainly aren't going to be any new buses knocking around for a couple of years. Vehicles of a similar vintage in other operations are being refreshed for further use which will likely see another 3-5 years use out of them.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Thanks for the updates on the remaining B7RLEs. One wonders how much longer they have, if not bound by the same requirements as in Bath. So that's four still in service, in varying conditions. I think I mentioned 66723 working the 8 the other day, which was a nice change. Plus there are whatever 55 reg ones remaining, and thanks I had quite forgotten about 69253.

It's more than four left if you include the WX55 xxx. Today the following have been out on the 72/72a according to the bus tracker: 66723, 66732, 66734, 66935, 66941, 66943 and 69253.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

35143 is still in 90 branding. Was on the 76 in Henbury last week.

That one has lost its branding since then. I think, but not certain, it may well have been the last one, as I saw it earlier this week without branding and that prompted my earlier post.

 

[Whiteway215]

I don’t know what consists the current training fleet in Bath, if indeed any training is being done at present.
I presume when the Bath LEZ becomes live in about a month the training buses will also have to comply.
Hasn’t it been discussed on here that WX55 B7RLEs can be made Euro6 compliant?

The Gov.UK website where you can check if your vehicle will be charged if you enter the Bath or Birmingham LEZs is saying 39005 would incur a charge so they are saying it is non compliant.

 

[Private Baxter]

Are they needed post-pandemic?

if so then I don't see them going anywhere as there certainly aren't going to be any new buses knocking around for a couple of years. Vehicles of a similar vintage in other operations are being refreshed for further use which will likely see another 3-5 years use out of them.

Who knows exactly what the bus needs will be post pandemic, regardless I'm sure they will be useful somewhere, as I'd say they aren't quite done. However, if a few still required for the next few years, I'd think they might take the best ones remaining, instead of what are, arguably some of the worst.

It's more than four left if you include the WX55 xxx. Today the following have been out on the 72/72a according to the bus tracker: 66723, 66732, 66734, 66935, 66941, 66943 and 69253.

Sorry my post was very badly written! I should have said four, plus whichever of the slightly younger 55 reg ones remain, as well as 69253 which i had completely forgotten about. If I'm honest I had lost track of the 55 reg ones, ie what has gone where, so thanks for the run down.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don’t know what consists the current training fleet in Bath, if indeed any training is being done at present.
I presume when the Bath LEZ becomes live in about a month the training buses will also have to comply.
Hasn’t it been discussed on here that WX55 B7RLEs can be made Euro6 compliant?

The Gov.UK website where you can check if your vehicle will be charged if you enter the Bath or Birmingham LEZs is saying 39005 would incur a charge so they are saying it is non compliant.

Who knows exactly what the bus needs will be post pandemic, regardless I'm sure they will be useful somewhere, as I'd say they aren't quite done. However, if a few still required for the next few years, I'd think they might take the best ones remaining, instead of what are, arguably some of the worst.


Sorry my post was very badly written! I should have said four, plus whichever of the slightly younger 55 reg ones remain, as well as 69253 which i had completely forgotten about. If I'm honest I had lost track of the 55 reg ones, ie what has gone where, so thanks for the run down.

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the 55 plates can be converted to meet Euro VI and that is why they are being converted to Driver Trainers in order to replace the older examples across the UK that either can't meet it or it isn't worth the cost of conversion.

39005 is non-compliant as the hybrid element doesn't offset the emissions when it is running normally. Not that it runs that often!

As for the retention of B7RLEs in Bristol, it would seem the plan is to remove singles altogether so suspect they are hanging on for a while. No one knows the impact of the pandemic.... will things bounce back? Is there a fundamental shift in travelling patterns? Will you have to run buses longer, or will they be surplus from cuts to reflect a new norm? None of us knows what the world will look like (though we doubtless have armchair experts who will know this in addition to being virologists, immunologists, lawyers and statisticians, all in their spare time).

We will have to see how things progress.

 

[Kremlin Stooge]

If I'm honest I had lost track of the 55 reg ones, ie what has gone where, so thanks for the run down.

I can certainly empathise with that, and say with utmost confidence you’re not the only one! Bloomin’ things can”t stay put for 5 minutes!

one I've not seen before but might be common, an e200 (44520) on the 72.

44520 usually loiters on the 93x but does occasionally escape. Haven’t personally seen it on a 72, but it was definitely a surprising sight working a 70 a couple of weeks ago.

 

[freetoview33]

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the 55 plates can be converted to meet Euro VI and that is why they are being converted to Driver Trainers in order to replace the older examples across the UK that either can't meet it or it isn't worth the cost of conversion.

39005 is non-compliant as the hybrid element doesn't offset the emissions when it is running normally. Not that it runs that often!

As for the retention of B7RLEs in Bristol, it would seem the plan is to remove singles altogether so suspect they are hanging on for a while. No one knows the impact of the pandemic.... will things bounce back? Is there a fundamental shift in travelling patterns? Will you have to run buses longer, or will they be surplus from cuts to reflect a new norm? None of us knows what the world will look like (though we doubtless have armchair experts who will know this in addition to being virologists, immunologists, lawyers and statisticians, all in their spare time).

We will have to see how things progress.

I honestly think pre covid the plan was more doubles to shift them on, but I wouldn't be surprised if they now stick around and have a refurbishment.
It looks like the remaining ALX400's are on the way out next although a few are still being used at Hengrove.

 

[carlberry]

32007 was moved out from Bath depot this morning.
RUMOUR ALERT 32007 reported as moving to somewhere in Bristol for repaint.

Of the recently withdrawn Eclipses, at least 66720/25/26 are parked up in Bath depot today.

From the 'Fleet Report' website https://fleetreport.co.uk/latest-news/12th-february-2021

Now sold into preservation are former Bath allocated Volvo B7LA/Wright Solar Fusion 10036, and Optare Solo 53806. Volvo B7TL/ALX400 32007 has been sold to Bath City Council for further use.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I honestly think pre covid the plan was more doubles to shift them on, but I wouldn't be surprised if they now stick around and have a refurbishment.
It looks like the remaining ALX400's are on the way out next although a few are still being used at Hengrove.

I don't see the Eclipses getting a refurb. I really don't.

The whole cascade plan is very much dependant on what is required post Covid and investment plans. The Aberdeen B9s will remove the last non CAZ compliant stuff from Bath but there's still a fair chunk of stuff in Bristol to sort and only a few can be sent to Weston to see their days out.

From the 'Fleet Report' website https://fleetreport.co.uk/latest-news/12th-february-2021

32007 heading to BaNES council.... wonder what for? Some sort of charity thing?

BaNES used to have a playbus - a former London Gemini (52 plate) but that disappeared some time ago.

 

[Whiteway215]

From the 'Fleet Report' website https://fleetreport.co.uk/latest-news/12th-february-2021

Carl-thanks for drawing attention to that. My information was Bristol City Council but apparently that was wrong.

 

[carlberry]

Carl-thanks for drawing attention to that. My information was Bristol City Council but apparently that was wrong.

I cant claim it's any more correct than what you were told! The site appears to have contacts within various Stagecoach companies however I don't know where the First stuff comes from. Obviously the preservation sales have been mentioned elsewhere.

32007 heading to BaNES council.... wonder what for? Some sort of charity thing?

BaNES used to have a playbus - a former London Gemini (52 plate) but that disappeared some time ago.

If the engine is still in it they cant use it in Bath anymore!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I cant claim it's any more correct than what you were told! The site appears to have contacts within various Stagecoach companies however I don't know where the First stuff comes from. Obviously the preservation sales have been mentioned elsewhere.


If the engine is still in it they cant use it in Bath anymore!

Was thinking more in a stationary sense - e.g. a community asset such as the other First donations such as to schools or as a homeless shelter.

I might add that there's more to BaNES than just Bath (as people in Keynsham and Norton Radstock will doubtless testify )

 

[Adam Bryant 1]

E200 44522 is now in Bath City blue livery.

 

[Private Baxter]

My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that the 55 plates can be converted to meet Euro VI and that is why they are being converted to Driver Trainers in order to replace the older examples across the UK that either can't meet it or it isn't worth the cost of conversion.

39005 is non-compliant as the hybrid element doesn't offset the emissions when it is running normally. Not that it runs that often!

As for the retention of B7RLEs in Bristol, it would seem the plan is to remove singles altogether so suspect they are hanging on for a while. No one knows the impact of the pandemic.... will things bounce back? Is there a fundamental shift in travelling patterns? Will you have to run buses longer, or will they be surplus from cuts to reflect a new norm? None of us knows what the world will look like (though we doubtless have armchair experts who will know this in addition to being virologists, immunologists, lawyers and statisticians, all in their spare time).

We will have to see how things progress.

Very true. Despite much speculation, it is very difficult to predict the long term affects to bus travel patterns post pandemic which is why i and many others have been reluctant to comment on the issue. We really don't know.

On the subject of 66723/4/32/4, it seems they are happy to keep them running a little longer with no immediate plan to replace them and are quite at home on the 72. As said earlier, maybe not the best ones from the fleet, but at least we still have a few in service.

I can certainly empathise with that, and say with utmost confidence you’re not the only one! Bloomin’ things can”t stay put for 5 minutes!

All I can tell you is that 22 were delivered new to Bath in early 2006 (66937-49/51-56/58/60-61) whilst 66934-36 were delivered new to Wells just slightly earlier in late 2005. Since then they have been picked away at and moved here, there and every where, including some which have left and come back

E200 44522 is now in Bath City blue livery.

Oh good. I've been expecting this for a long time so good to hear it finally done.

 

[90sWereBetter]

All I can tell you is that 22 were delivered new to Bath in early 2006 (66937-49/51-56/58/60-61) whilst 66934-36 were delivered new to Wells just slightly earlier in late 2005. Since then they have been picked away at and moved here, there and every where, including some which have left and come back

Then there's the three which were randomly diverted to Eastern Counties (66950/57/59) which despite still being here 15 years on have displayed the nomadic qualities of their sisters in Bath, by managing to work at every EC depot apart from King's Lynn in their lifetime.

Not sure why they ended up here, at the time the only B7RLEs were a small batch dedicated to Norwich Park and Ride (69005-11).