Probably fairly low as they have a Euro 6 deadline to hit for a huge portion of their network. So anything half decent and upgradable to Euro 6 isn't likely to go anywhere in my opinion as they are getting funding to upgrade B9TLs and E300s iirc.
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First Group: General Discussion
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Re the Hampshire operations, The Portsmouth, Southampton and most of the the Fareham fleets, have used local funding to upgrade vehicles (mostly Streetlites) to Euro 6 standards to meet planned LEZs. (The Enviro 200MMCs and some late model Streetlites were constructed to Euro 6 standard).
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Indeed - I knew they had a new MD, and he's a vastly experienced individual.
Those criticisms aren't of those people but of the situation that they are inheriting. @DragonEast is of the opinion that FE is beyond salvation. I disagree; there are a good few issues that need to be put right but it has the potential to be the next First South West. Even a glance north into FEC shows just what is achievable.
On the Buses
Member
I didn’t actually mean to quote you just the other contributor so apologies if it looked like I was responding to your comments.
And of course some of us may be aware of work in progress !
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
No worries.
I'm sure that much hard work in First South West went unseen (to the outside observer). It'll take a while to effect a similar transformation though I think First Essex are starting from a better place (though in the middle of a pandemic isn't ideal).
This is Matthew Gregory who has just sold off half of the business (Transit and Student) and is busy downsizing Greyhound to offload it?
Don't let the facts get in the way of a rant
Indeed - Norfolk CC secured funding for various improvements with FEC also coming to the party as in this article https://www.norfolk.gov.uk/news/2020/09/councils-secure-59-million-for-sustainable-transport about the award of £59m in various improvements to the road network. More info on what they plan to do in terms of revised road schemes etc is contained here https://www.norfolk.gov.uk/roads-an...ment-projects/transforming-cities-application
The most telling quote for this forum is on the first article viz:
It may be that this will see the replacement of the Eclipses and the elderly Tridents and B7TLs plus the refurbishment of the B9s, with the Streetlites cascaded out to Lowestoft/Yarmouth to replace fleet there.
The one thing I've not seen is timescales for this and it may not be immediate so hence why they've been painting Tridents that you'd expect to be gone sooner rather than later
There is also this:-
https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/local-council/electric-buses-could-be-coming-to-norwich-8164150
Electric buses could be coming to Norwich - if £3m bid succeeds
Dan Grimmer
11 COMMENTS
Published: 3:06 PM July 21, 2021
Chris Speed, operations manager for First Eastern Counties. - Credit: Archant Norfolk
Fifteen electric buses could be introduced on the streets of Norwich, if an attempt to get £3m of government cash is successful.
First Buses and Norfolk County Council are keen to secure a share of the Department for Transport's £50m Zero Emission Bus Regional Area (ZEBRA) fund.
The county council has lodged an expression of interest for a slice of the cash, which would cover the cost of replacing 15 of First's single decker vehicles with single decker electric vehicles.
The county council would like to get £3.2m from the fund to pay for the buses and infrastructure, including charging equipment.
First is ready to add £3.6m should the government stump up that money, taking the total cost of the scheme to about £6.8m.
First is working with UK bus manufacturer, Arrival, to
deliver purpose built electric single deck vehicles, which would run on routes which pass through Norwich city centre.
Norwich is one of five areas across the UK where First is hoping to bring in a total of 193 new electrical vehicles, with the ZEBRA money one of a number of avenues being explored to get them up and running.
Goldfish62
Established Member
- Joined
- 14 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 10,030
And the new Commercial Director knows the territory extremely well.
Portsmouth invited to submit business case for greener, cleaner buses
https://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/Hamps...ubmit-business-case-for-greener-cleaner-buses
Published: 4th August 2021 10:52 The future of bus travel in Portsmouth could look a whole lot greener if a funding bid to introduce 34 brand new, zero-emission electric buses is successful.
The Department for Transport (DfT) announced on Thursday that a joint Expression of Interest submission from Portsmouth City Council, Hampshire County Council and bus operator First Hampshire Dorset and Berkshire, has progressed to phase 2 of the bidding process for a £6,428,919 share of the Department for Transport's £14.3m Zero Emission Buses Regional Areas Fund (ZEBRA). Phase 2 involves the development of a Full Business Case (FBC) for the scheme.
If the bidding partners' FBC is successful, the scheme would see the new 'Arrival' battery-powered buses replace many of the present diesel vehicles operating in four out of the five of the city's Air Quality Management Areas (AQMAs). These areas cover some of the busiest roads in Portsmouth with the highest levels of pollution.
The partners, led by Portsmouth City Council, submitted the Expression of Interest in June and have now been invited to develop and submit a Full Business Case for the funding. Not all local transport authorities that have reached this phase will be awarded funding during this competitive stage and no funding has yet been awarded.
The move towards lower emission public transport vehicles in the city supports the council's objective to deliver cleaner air, which has been set out in its Local Transport Plan 4. The introduction of the electric buses, which are smoother and quieter than diesel vehicles, would make bus transport even more attractive for the travelling public and would help to develop cleaner air in the worst affected areas of the city.
The 34 brand new buses feature a low floor throughout for increased accessibility and would provide rapid, smooth and comfortable public transport links on the following main routes across Portsmouth's travel to work area:
If the funding bid is successful, 26 of the buses will be used on the First Solent routes 1 and 3 and eight buses would operate on the 9/9A routes. The high-quality buses would also support regeneration programmes aimed at improving economic activity in the city centre.
- 1 Portsmouth - Southsea;
- 3 Portsmouth - Cosham - Fareham; and
- 9/9A Fareham - Gosport
These routes represent 21% of bus mileage within Portsmouth. Over 1,734 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions will be avoided each year. With no tailpipe exhaust, the electric buses will avoid emissions of up to 1,156 kg of nitrous oxides (NOx) and 14.1 kg of particulate matter (PM).
Cllr Lynne Stagg, Cabinet Member for Traffic and Transportation, said: "This is great news and brings us a step closer to creating more sustainable bus travel and developing cleaner air for everyone who lives, works, visits and studies in the city. I look forward to working with our partners at Hampshire County Council and First Bus as we prepare the business case for the DfT."
Councillor Rob Humby, Deputy Leader of Hampshire County Council and Executive Lead Member for Economy, Transport and Environment, said "I am really pleased that our bid has moved to the next stage and demonstrates the value of our strong working partnership. What will be important now, is to ensure we have a watertight business case developed for submission by the end of January.
"This will stand us in good stead for the work we will be undertaking as part of ‘Bus Back Better' - the government's National Bus Strategy; and in supporting a green economy locally to fulfil our county council's commitment to be carbon neutral by 2050."
Marc Reddy, managing director of First Hampshire Dorset and Berkshire said: "This is a great example of collaboration between First, Portsmouth City Council and Hampshire County Council, and we will be working hard with our local partners to secure the funding for this path-breaking project."
The council has been served with Ministerial Directions, requiring compliance with legal limits for nitrogen dioxide (NO2) in the shortest possible time in areas where levels of air pollution exceed the legal limits. The council is introducing a Class B Clean Air Zone (CAZ) in 2021. The CAZ area is served by routes 1 and 3, on which 79% of the electric bus services will run. These routes account for 24% of all buses serving the CAZ area annually.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Very interesting - more interest in Arrival vehicles.
Perhaps one for @baza585 or any other local but what normally operates these services? I thought the 9/(a were Solos but looks like they're Eclipse e200mmcs at the moment. Is this a covid or just another change?
From memory, the 1 is usually Streetlites whilst the 3 is the remaining Omnicities supplemented with Streetlites?
1&3 interwork, and are operated by what is left of the Scanias plus Streetlites. Normal peak vehicle requirement (PVR) is 26, though currently lower. No deckers due to a low bridge.
9/9A historically were mainly Solos and interworked with a Fareham local service (F1) with a PVR of 8, but recently have been Eclipse E200MMCs with a PVR of 4 and an awkward 25 minute frequency. Most likely this will go back up if the driver situation improves. First Hants and Dorset (FHD) are currently at full stretch.
This has left Hoeford with more Solos than it needs, but given their dubious reliability this hasn't been a problem.
Rumour down here suggests an announcement regarding Eclipse replacement is expected soon. More electrics maybe given the extension to the BRT is well under way.
West of England (WoE) deckers are expected to return very soon from Isle of Wight rail replacement. There are suggestions of subcontracting to local independent Xelabus until trains resume.
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If only there was a bus operator on the Isle of Wight with double deckers available!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Been a little while since I was down Portsmouth way so appreciate that clarity on the 1/3; last time I was there, I had a very rattly Scania on the 3 so it stuck in my mind. Interesting about the Eclipse but wonder if there's some crossed lines as it sounds like it's non-Eclipse routes getting the electrics. However, thinking of it, the initial Eclipse fleet was replaced after 4 years, and it's now 5 since the e200mmc arrived (that's flown by) so there could be both Eclipse renewal AND these Zero Emission Buses Regional Areas Fund (ZEBRA) scheme ones.
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It would make sense to electrify as much of Hoeford's stock as possible, given the capital cost of linking it up to the National Grid. That said there is a very large substation about 100 yards down the road.......
My expectation is a further Eclipse service once the new bit opens, but using the existing stock to begin with, maintaining the frequency down to where the routes bifurcate.
Fareham and Gosport are very very flat, so ideal electric territory. Unlike South Dorset ........
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
May depend on the timings? They wouldn't want to disadvantage their ZEBRA bid by already putting in the infrastructure already; the flip side is that it may make it more attractive to DfT if it begins to look like a wholesale conversion of most of a town/local area?
Bifurcate..... great word!
I imagine they are hoping Zebra will pay for the long lead to the substation and they will seek what funding they can for the new buses. The 5 year limit is a bit of a nonsense; the 12 plate volvos were in fine fettle after 5 years and Weymouth benefited. I always thought Hoeford should have kept them for the 1/3 but I guess Weymouth had greater need to replace knackered Drats.
Glad you liked today's word of the day!!
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
The B7RLEs were very good machines....better than the e200mmc. They are well suited to Weymouth but are on the wrong routes in my opinion - they should be on Portland as well as Dorchester, with Streetlites on Littlemoor and Preston.
It'll be interesting to see who might benefit if the purse strings are indeed loosened, ZEBRA and other funding being a consideration too.
A few more Zebra 'snippetts' as they relate to First: -
Norfolk/Norwich have put in a £3m bid for 15 Single deckers "Arrivals".
Source
First and Norfolk County Council eye £3m electric bus bid ...
https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk › news › local-council
West Yorkshire Authority have put in a large bid covering Arriva, Transdev and First covering various parts of West Yorkshire, the First element is 32 Single deck planned for Leeds Bramley.
Source -
These are of course just bids/proposals, they have not been agreed/signed off and may come to nothing.
Norfolk/Norwich have put in a £3m bid for 15 Single deckers "Arrivals".
Source
First and Norfolk County Council eye £3m electric bus bid ...
https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk › news › local-council
West Yorkshire Authority have put in a large bid covering Arriva, Transdev and First covering various parts of West Yorkshire, the First element is 32 Single deck planned for Leeds Bramley.
Source -
bid document - West Yorkshire Combined Authority
https://www.westyorks-ca.gov.uk › media › zebraThese are of course just bids/proposals, they have not been agreed/signed off and may come to nothing.
Agree 100% re Weymouth allocations, particularly on evening services which are tight on time.
I can only assume the frugality of the Streetlites wins out, but the B7s are wasted on Preston.
For clarification ZEBRA is "Zero Emission Buses Regional Areas Fund". Please remember to define any jargon, acronyms etc. that is used in your posts. Thank you 
DragonEast
Member
- Joined
- 6 Sep 2016
- Messages
- 266
I
Passenger growth? If only they could find a market to exploit like tourism or Hinckley Point. What do you suggest? They serve the shops and railway stations well. Growth? Um. Eastern National used to run Highwayman, a regional interurban network, and even First made forays into neighbouring areas. Why did they stall, then fold? Perhaps name me anything they haven't tried, in their time ?
Yes maybe they are a bit stick in the mud, from the old days when the population worked in factories and lived in the west of town and worked in the east of town. But that's the least of the problems.
All the local majors, think Stagecoach East (outside central Cambridge) and Arriva Herts and the Shires, share many of the same problems. (even then in their suburbs and neighbouring towns services rapidly drop down to hourly. Why? Lack of resources. In comparable circumstances First Essex schedule half hourly, or more frequent services. The route variations are almost invariably at passengers' request. But even the innovative newcomers (think Metroline/Uno, no slouches) have retrenched; or given up. Why did Transdev Sovereign give up on their strong legacy in neighbouring Herts? It's not all plain sailing in Eastern Counties either. They struggle too. But Essex doesn't have a Norwich to anchor their network.
If the rumours are true and Ipswich Buses have won the tender for the Chelmsford P&R, it may be an interesting development, at least to see what they make of it.
What do First Essex actually want? I don't get their vision for the future. That's my big concern. Perhaps you could let us know your thoughts? Then we would have something useful to discuss.
PS At least I gather Chelmsford have a replacement music festival from 2022, potentially for the next 10 years. If First Passenger Solutions are up to it, that's at least one weekend sorted. From little acorns... for the optimists! More importantly, the additional railway station, which looks finally as though it is pencilled in for 2025, should significantly reduce the need for bus travel in mid-Essex, and the consequent resource anarchy that has prevailed over the last 25 years of waiting!
If I ever said it was beyond salvation I disagree. Nothing is beyond salvation, as Jesus said. But it takes resources. Where are they coming from? The Council? Well Essex CC boast they haven't had to raise taxes, despite all the challenges. Thank god. I don't see us taxpayers complaining. So are they likely to start throwing money at the buses like confetti? Not yet.
Passenger growth? If only they could find a market to exploit like tourism or Hinckley Point. What do you suggest? They serve the shops and railway stations well. Growth? Um. Eastern National used to run Highwayman, a regional interurban network, and even First made forays into neighbouring areas. Why did they stall, then fold? Perhaps name me anything they haven't tried, in their time ?
Yes maybe they are a bit stick in the mud, from the old days when the population worked in factories and lived in the west of town and worked in the east of town. But that's the least of the problems.
All the local majors, think Stagecoach East (outside central Cambridge) and Arriva Herts and the Shires, share many of the same problems. (even then in their suburbs and neighbouring towns services rapidly drop down to hourly. Why? Lack of resources. In comparable circumstances First Essex schedule half hourly, or more frequent services. The route variations are almost invariably at passengers' request. But even the innovative newcomers (think Metroline/Uno, no slouches) have retrenched; or given up. Why did Transdev Sovereign give up on their strong legacy in neighbouring Herts? It's not all plain sailing in Eastern Counties either. They struggle too. But Essex doesn't have a Norwich to anchor their network.
If the rumours are true and Ipswich Buses have won the tender for the Chelmsford P&R, it may be an interesting development, at least to see what they make of it.
What do First Essex actually want? I don't get their vision for the future. That's my big concern. Perhaps you could let us know your thoughts? Then we would have something useful to discuss.
PS At least I gather Chelmsford have a replacement music festival from 2022, potentially for the next 10 years. If First Passenger Solutions are up to it, that's at least one weekend sorted. From little acorns... for the optimists! More importantly, the additional railway station, which looks finally as though it is pencilled in for 2025, should significantly reduce the need for bus travel in mid-Essex, and the consequent resource anarchy that has prevailed over the last 25 years of waiting!
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Well, what to make of this.... let me address each point.
I don't know what or why you're mentioning Essex CC but let's be absolutely honest. They aren't the worst local authority in the world. They have cut funding in the austerity years, as did many LAs but also, they do still try to support services to an extent. The P&R contract you mention being one such example (unlike Worcestershire CC who axed theirs) and remember that there is now money for local authorities to reinstate previous lost links - for evidence of this, see the partial restoration of links in Oxfordshire who had effectively removed all spending. There is also the ability to obtain funds from the ZEBRA zero emission vehicle funding schemes so money is there.
You question where the growth might come from, citing the impact of Hinckley Point on the fortunes of First South West. Well, let's look at this. In 2016/7 (having divested Plymouth operations some time before), First gained a £200k dividend from HP3 activities against an operating loss of £1.7m. By 2018/9, that dividend had risen to £900k but rather than a heavy loss maker, First South West delivered an operating profit of £2.8m.... Clearly they were (and are) doing something right, and more than just their share of Hinckley Point spoils. Do you understand that? In addition, you mention about Eastern Counties being underpinned by Norwich city and that they are struggling. Well, that's simply not true, and on a number of points. Not least that in 2016/7, FEC made a operating profit of £0.2m but by 2018/9, it was £1.2m, and in fact for the last year, it was £3.3m, helped by developing routes like Excel so that it justified new fleet (again).
However, still a fair point to ask where First Essex might gain passenger growth from, or at least, how they can maintain ridership whilst reducing costs? Well, are there any universities that can be exploited more effectively than present? How about developing relationships with other educational establishments? Does Essex have any form of tourism that can be exploited? Well, the long neglected open top service in Southend was resurrected but could there be other opportunities? Or airport links, with more emphasis on Stansted, though perhaps one for 2022? And you mention Highwayman (not exactly a contemporary reference - something introduced nearly 40 years ago) but perhaps there are opportunities for some targeted fast links where rail isn't an effective option? After all, Go North East have just resurrected their limited stop network, with the X-Lines network filling the gap of the 1980s Expresslink network. With a new commercial manager, who knows what they might have planned, and this is based purely on growth. Part of what they might need to do is actually simplify some routes, prune some headways and so cut some costs whilst minimising the adverse effect on patronage. The latter point is something you refer to and they may end up doing so. Perhaps that 10 min Galleywood 42 might drop to 12 mins.... I'm sure there are plenty of others. Hopefully, a simplified network will be joined by a commitment to improve quality, and so emulate the performance of Ensignbus and Stephensons who manage that and have carved a lucrative niche in Essex bus operation.
Now we get onto the truly bizarre.... For some reason, you cite Transdev Sovereign giving up in Hertfordshire as some sort of parallel, or to support some view that they pulled out because it wasn't worth the effort. Well, given that happened in 2005, and in a different county, I'm struggling to see the connection? Moreover, the circumstances were that Blazefield (as it predated Transdev) had purchased most of unwanted and unloved Stagecoach Ribble in 2001 as a companion piece to their existing Yorkshire operations over the hill. They, therefore, decided to sell all of their southern ops and focus on developing the Lancashire operations, selling to a range of willing purchasers such as Arriva, Centrebus and Cavalier. So really, what is the parallel? You'll be quoting the divestment of operations to United Counties in 1952 next, as some sort of illustration of something!!
Then you mention the Chelmsford P&R being lost, potentially, to Ipswich Buses. That would be a blow undoubtedly but as that's a twin package, then it's arguably a much bigger blow to Arriva if they have lost Colchester P&R; a greater proportion of fleet, with revenue and overhead recovery lost and on a smaller base over which to spread fixed costs. Much more interesting, especially given the challenges that Arriva has in achieving "demanding" rates of return. Clearly, First believe that its worth an experienced MD and a big-hitting commercial guy to go in there. There's a lot of good practice from around the group, and it isn't confined to First South West; it's a long way back with a lot of elderly Darts, Tridents and B7RLEs in particular to tackle, and drafting in barely new B7TLs and e200s isn't going to help much but I'll wager that if we look at this in 3 years time, things might be rather different.
DragonEast
Member
- Joined
- 6 Sep 2016
- Messages
- 266
Thank you. We'll just have to disagree. I think the local market in Herts/Beds/Bucks, even Cambs, and Essex, has far more in common than with Cornwall/Somerset and Trans-pennine, or even Norfolk. The influence of London, both travelwise and on the public mindset, as well as the absence of any dominant settlement, competitive pressures, a lack of dominant local travel patterns, and the overwhelming dominance of the car. Rather like the 1950s, for young people forced to live at home for much longer while they can't afford a place of their own unlike our generation perhaps, the car represents freedom. Our universities are car centric, even more so perhaps than Hatfield and Cranfield, that begat Uno, though in the wrong county, sorry!
And as for everything else you mention, it's what they've been doing for the last few years at least, with some success. But I wouldn't disregard either the commercial acumen or opportunities available to minions Stephensons and Ensign, if we could call them that. Nor would I see the Local Go-East as a virtual corpse, Hedingham and Chambers have not made such a shambles of the former First territory as some enthusiasts like to think. It's not the best bus territory, but what in Essex is? I agree it'd be serious for Arriva if they lost the Colchester P&R contract, but they didn't. It'll get new investment, I gather.
So, it's all swings and roundabouts as usual. None of it transformative, in my view. But we'll see. The new peripheral railway station. That will change things. But including the fortunes of FEx, we'll see. As for the loss of the Chelmsford P&R contract, maybe a blessing rather than a curse. P&R, for what? At least we might not have P&R vehicles turning up everywhere else for much longer, confusing everyone.
Nobody can deny that the Norwich Network and Excel have been transformative for Eastern Counties. Brilliant moves that we could see even at the time by the perhaps unappreciated MDs a decade ago. But I don't think everything is necessarily rosy. Look at the coastal strip or Ipswich hinterland, or even some Norwich suburbs, beyond the trunk routes. They are marginal. But where are the similar opportunities in the Essex operating area? And yes Arriva have exploited the opportunities of Stansted very effectively, after First gave up. They have a new direct link coming to East London, so still are.
What is the point of FEx? I'm not sure we're any nearer the answer. It's still treading water.
And as for everything else you mention, it's what they've been doing for the last few years at least, with some success. But I wouldn't disregard either the commercial acumen or opportunities available to minions Stephensons and Ensign, if we could call them that. Nor would I see the Local Go-East as a virtual corpse, Hedingham and Chambers have not made such a shambles of the former First territory as some enthusiasts like to think. It's not the best bus territory, but what in Essex is? I agree it'd be serious for Arriva if they lost the Colchester P&R contract, but they didn't. It'll get new investment, I gather.
So, it's all swings and roundabouts as usual. None of it transformative, in my view. But we'll see. The new peripheral railway station. That will change things. But including the fortunes of FEx, we'll see. As for the loss of the Chelmsford P&R contract, maybe a blessing rather than a curse. P&R, for what? At least we might not have P&R vehicles turning up everywhere else for much longer, confusing everyone.
Nobody can deny that the Norwich Network and Excel have been transformative for Eastern Counties. Brilliant moves that we could see even at the time by the perhaps unappreciated MDs a decade ago. But I don't think everything is necessarily rosy. Look at the coastal strip or Ipswich hinterland, or even some Norwich suburbs, beyond the trunk routes. They are marginal. But where are the similar opportunities in the Essex operating area? And yes Arriva have exploited the opportunities of Stansted very effectively, after First gave up. They have a new direct link coming to East London, so still are.
What is the point of FEx? I'm not sure we're any nearer the answer. It's still treading water.
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
You seem rather muddled in your thinking. By one point, you concede that nothing is beyond salvation and then say otherwise. Recognising that First Eastern Counties (FEC) are allegedly not doing well and then saying that it's transformative. And, I note, that you have elected to ignore the factual inaccuracies in your previous missive. You recognise your statements about Hinckley Point, around First Eastern Counties financial performance, around Blazefield vacating the South East, were all factually incorrect?
As regards FEC, or First in general, then as with any other business, there will be depots and individual routes that are more marginal or weaker performers in the portfolio. That's just life. I suspect that routes like Lowestoft locals are not gold mines but you could look at any firm and make the same point. You acknowledge that First Essex have been doing some things "with some success" for a while and yet fail to see how perhaps things can be improved and developed. By the same dint, you ask where the opportunities are and in the same breath, agree about Stansted. More incongruously, you state that Arriva have exploited the Stansted market..... how have they?
I don't dismiss the commercial acumen of Stephensons or Ensign. In fact, I said "Hopefully, a simplified network will be joined by a commitment to improve quality, and so emulate the performance of Ensignbus and Stephensons who manage that and have carved a lucrative niche in Essex bus operation." - did you not read this?
As for the love-in by enthusiasts at the expense of Go East, I'm going off the facts. In the 2018/9 results, Go East lost £1.1m on a £13m turnover. That's improved to a loss of only £0.8m in 2019/20. Hardly stellar.
I don't know what the rumours are or the veracity of them for the two Park and Rides in Colchester and Chelmsford. However, here is the PIN https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:539001-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML for them. They are not divided into lots so it should be a single award so I'd be surprised if Ipswich Buses won Chelmsford (I would in any case) and not Colchester. Even more surprising that they would win Chelmsford and so beat First, Arriva and Go Ahead who all are much closer than 40 miles away with the attendant additional costs that would incur.
And yes, First Essex are treading water....that's exactly the reason they've brought in a new MD and Commercial Director!
I'm aware this isn't the Arriva thread, but just a couple of points here.
Based on the first pair of vehicle swaps, it looks like the plan is for the remaining -67- plate Enviro 200 MMC's at Gillingham (GL) to go to Colchester and the current Enviro 200's there to come to GL. So not really "new" investment, and quite First-like in shuffling the deckchairs? On the plus side, they are repainting them before they arrive at GL for a change, so maybe they are hoping the customers won't notice the difference.
Not really - they have retrenched there, and if you mean service 720 as the new direct link, this has been cancelled (certainly for the foreseeable, in that the registration has been formally cancelled) and the vehicles redeployed to the Luton Greenline 727 service.
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busesrusuk
Member
Yesterday (Sunday) First South Yorkshire held an open day at their depot at Olive Grove in Sheffield. It was very well attended by visitors and buses with a good selection of preserved buses, visiting vehicles and vehicles from their current fleet.
Weather brightened up in the afternoon and I think they can chalk this up as a success. for those interested a selection of pics on my flickr site of buses at the depot and on the free shuttle service into the city centre.
Keith Wood | Flickr
HTIOI....
Weather brightened up in the afternoon and I think they can chalk this up as a success. for those interested a selection of pics on my flickr site of buses at the depot and on the free shuttle service into the city centre.
Keith Wood | Flickr
HTIOI....
I’ve searched, so apologies if I’ve missed it, but doesn’t seem to have been mentioned here yet… First now rolling out tap on, tap off across the OpCos, it’s even reached Potteries at the end of last month but I’ve only just discovered it, today being my first proper trip to the office since the before times.
Seems a pretty good system, caps by single/return/daily/weekly (can’t remember if I read it goes further in time but I imagine so!), and in Potteries by area travelled and one special route specific fare. doesn’t currently link to cross-operator tickets ringmastered by local authorities but info online suggests if/when other operators upgrade systems it will facilitate those too.
Quick and simple to tap on, driver friendly and helpful explaining it my first time, and a black box on the pole by the door to tap out. Just hope I remember!
For me it’s a useful innovation, I worked from home about half-time even pre-COVID and unsure what pattern I’ll go to now, and when I can I cycle to the station, so I don’t know at the start of the week whether I’d be on the bus all week or not, so whether to get a return, day or week ticket.
It must have taken some investment and I know this isn’t truly ‘innovative’ but still good to see Fist developing, hopefully it’ll help speed up boarding and smooth journey times.
Seems a pretty good system, caps by single/return/daily/weekly (can’t remember if I read it goes further in time but I imagine so!), and in Potteries by area travelled and one special route specific fare. doesn’t currently link to cross-operator tickets ringmastered by local authorities but info online suggests if/when other operators upgrade systems it will facilitate those too.
Quick and simple to tap on, driver friendly and helpful explaining it my first time, and a black box on the pole by the door to tap out. Just hope I remember!
For me it’s a useful innovation, I worked from home about half-time even pre-COVID and unsure what pattern I’ll go to now, and when I can I cycle to the station, so I don’t know at the start of the week whether I’d be on the bus all week or not, so whether to get a return, day or week ticket.
It must have taken some investment and I know this isn’t truly ‘innovative’ but still good to see Fist developing, hopefully it’ll help speed up boarding and smooth journey times.
-Colly405-
Member
The only disadvantage with it that I can see is that (certainly in Bristol) you pay walk-up fares rather than pay-in-advance fares. So the daily cap is the £5 First day bought from driver rather than £4.50 if bought on mTicket / First Travelshop / smart card.
Cambus731
Member
- Joined
- 19 Jul 2013
- Messages
- 1,121
I do think that the present Chelmsford City network is a bit of a mess and is operated mainly by elderly Darts and B7RLEs.
It really could do with a fresh sheer of paper approach and have a new network designed from scratch..
Maybe do it in conjunction with a new fleet of brand new buses in the new green First Essex livery, not route branded, but with a Chelmsford branding.
It really could do with a fresh sheer of paper approach and have a new network designed from scratch..
Maybe do it in conjunction with a new fleet of brand new buses in the new green First Essex livery, not route branded, but with a Chelmsford branding.