Fixed Penalty Notice PLEASE HELP!

[amberwinder]

Hello,

On the 1st July 2021 I purchased a return ticket from Ulverston (my local station) to Manchester Piccadilly and back (e-ticket). My boyfriend ordered our tickets for us both through the trainline app. Without realising until we got to Manchester Piccadilly station, we had realised we had accidentally purchased myself a Child’s ticket when I am in fact 18 so should’ve got an adult ticket. None of the people at my local train station or the train conductors (the first train I got on) had questioned me about this at all so I had absolutely no idea I had the wrong ticket. I got stopped at Manchester Piccadilly, was asked what my date of birth was and this was when I realised I had the wrong ticket (my boyfriend had the right ticket so this was an obvious mistake). They then took my details and said I would receive a letter from Northern Rail regarding this ‘offence’, the man who was taking my details had stated to me that he was not giving me a fine but I would have to purchase the correct ticket for my return journey, and indeed this is what I did. A few weeks later I received a letter from Northern Rail saying ‘FIXED PENALTY NOTICE’ basically saying that the fixed penalty is £90 plus the payment owed for the fare which is £13.50, so this comes to a total of £103.50 which I supposedly have to pay. In this first letter they said they will give me the chance to write them a letter on the back of that letter explaining my situation, and so I did this explaining all the details saying it was a genuine and honest mistake. I sent off this letter asap hoping I would not be charged. I then received a second letter from Northern Rail today, basically saying i’m being fined the £103.50 and if I ‘fail to respond to this reasonable request within 14 days from the date of this letter will result in legal action being taken.’ I am only 18 and I barely have any money to my name, I rarely ever use trains as transport so this was an honest mistake and I really cannot afford this fine. I’m really upset and have no idea what to do. It seems as though they completely ignored the letter I sent them and just decided they want to get money out of me. I suffer with anxiety so this is not great for me. If anyone could lead me in the right direction please do because i’m lost. Thank you. I will attach a copy of the second letter below.

 

[bb21]

I've blocked out personal details from the image.

To be brutally honest, persuading the company to accept that your boyfriend ordered both of your tickets in the same transaction (I assume) splitting between adult and child tickets unknowingly (as opposed to deliberately selecting one child ticket in addition to adult tickets, unless your boyfriend is under 16 himself) is likely to be a very tall order. In any case it still remains your responsibility to check you have the right ticket. Did your ticket say it was a child ticket on it?

The fact you had not been challenged en route does not change the fact you didn't have a valid ticket, nor is it giving you permission to use an invalid ticket. There could be many reasons why they may not have picked up on it.

Have a read through the other disputes threads. I think in your case you need to just pay it, even if you need to borrow money from family members or friends. (Note that if you were prosecuted under the Regulation of Railways Act you will end up with a criminal record if convicted, but not if under the Railway Byelaws, but for both outcomes if convicted you will end up poorer financially compared to paying the penalty notice.)

 

[Wolfie]

Not a great boyfriend to buy you a dodgy ticket while he was ok. If he's decent then he, as at least part of the cause, should help you with the costs of this. If he doesn't l suggest that you consider getting rid.

Whatever you do, l advise you to pay the current demand. A Court appearance would almost certainly both cost you more and could, depending on the exact charges, result in a criminal record too.

 

[RPI]

If you select child on the trainline app it then goes on to ask you the age of the said child, it seems very unfortunate that your boyfriend Firstly accidently chose a child and then also accidently selected an individual age of 15 or under.

The only mitigation is that you claim you didn't purchase the ticket yourself, if Northern don't accept that, which it seems they haven't, then I'd say you're probably better paying up as its a mitigation that probably wouldn't work in court either as ultimately it is your individual responsibility to ensure you have a valid ticket.

Personally I'd make your boyfriend pay it for you!

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I'm in agreement with the consensus here - you did need an Adult ticket (or with a Railcard) for this journey. If, as you say, your boyfriend did purchase the tickets (this fact is largely irrelevant to the people who check the tickets) then hopefully he'll do the right thing and make amends for his error. If he tries to weasel out of it, then you have to wonder if he wasn't intentionally trying to save himself some money. Either way, it suggests a lot about a person's character.

Sorry to say, but someone needs to settle the penalty and if your boyfriend refuses to help you here, well... I think you probably get the idea.

The only thing I can think of, going by your reconstruction, is that it sounds like whoever you spoke to made you pay up-front at the time they discovered you had the wrong ticket, which was £13.50, and now they're asking you to pay the Penalty Fare in addition to the original amount owed of £13.50. Assuming you still have the ticket for £13.50, you may be able to respond and ask them to waive the £13.50, explaining that you already paid this when asked to do so. But it's up to you whether you wish to argue over the £13.50, because the £90 penalty is still very much fair game for them even if the inspector implied that he wasn't issuing one - that doesn't stop his office from taking the inspector's statement and choosing to issue one or worse, sending you a notice of intent to prosecute.

Best of luck getting this sorted, whichever route you choose.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with what others have said above. To be brutally honest you didn't have a valid ticket for your journey and the rail company would be within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court where you would be found guilty and receive a fine which along with the costs would be far more than what you are being asked to pay (plus a potential criminal record).

I recommend paying up to prevent the matter from escalating and chalk it up to experience. I appreciate it is a lot of money for you, and I suggest asking relatives or friends if they can assist with lending you some money if necessary (starting with your boyfriend).

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

On the 1st July 2021 I purchased a return ticket from Ulverston (my local station) to Manchester Piccadilly and back (e-ticket). My boyfriend ordered our tickets for us both through the trainline app. Without realising until we got to Manchester Piccadilly station, we had realised we had accidentally purchased myself a Child’s ticket when I am in fact 18 so should’ve got an adult ticket. None of the people at my local train station or the train conductors (the first train I got on) had questioned me about this at all so I had absolutely no idea I had the wrong ticket. I got stopped at Manchester Piccadilly, was asked what my date of birth was and this was when I realised I had the wrong ticket (my boyfriend had the right ticket so this was an obvious mistake). They then took my details and said I would receive a letter from Northern Rail regarding this ‘offence’, the man who was taking my details had stated to me that he was not giving me a fine but I would have to purchase the correct ticket for my return journey, and indeed this is what I did. A few weeks later I received a letter from Northern Rail saying ‘FIXED PENALTY NOTICE’ basically saying that the fixed penalty is £90 plus the payment owed for the fare which is £13.50, so this comes to a total of £103.50 which I supposedly have to pay. In this first letter they said they will give me the chance to write them a letter on the back of that letter explaining my situation, and so I did this explaining all the details saying it was a genuine and honest mistake. I sent off this letter asap hoping I would not be charged. I then received a second letter from Northern Rail today, basically saying i’m being fined the £103.50 and if I ‘fail to respond to this reasonable request within 14 days from the date of this letter will result in legal action being taken.’ I am only 18 and I barely have any money to my name, I rarely ever use trains as transport so this was an honest mistake and I really cannot afford this fine. I’m really upset and have no idea what to do. It seems as though they completely ignored the letter I sent them and just decided they want to get money out of me. I suffer with anxiety so this is not great for me. If anyone could lead me in the right direction please do because i’m lost. Thank you. I will attach a copy of the second letter below.

Bad news but I can't really see a viable way that you will be able to persuade them that this was just a mistake. There must have been a point where your boyfriend ticked something or agreed to a statement that you were 15 or younger (child ticket eligibility) and unless the app makes it really easy to do in error (and if so surely people of all ages would be ending up with child fares by mistake).
You could try writing back to them again to persuade them it was a genuine error, but I fear they won't believe you - and even if they did they would still probably want a sum of money along these lines as a penalty I suspect.

Ever since there have been child prices for stuff (train fares, bus fares, cinema ticket etc etc) there have been plenty people who are a bit too old for them trying to get away with paying that rate. It's probably one of the most common fare evasion things on the railway so when they find examples of it they probably don't give people the benefit of the doubt.

I hope your boyfriend will pitch in to help you pay this sum. I don't think there are other realistic options that you can pursue, because the other option is them taking court action against you and that is something you really want to avoid (and it will cost you even more).

There are a few railcards for people over 16 that give decent discounts. Probably an idea to get one ahead of your next train journey.

I hope you can find a way to pay this without undue hardship.

 

[Titfield]

If you are in work can you ask for an advance on your salary / wages?