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Flexible Rail Season Tickets - 2/3 days per week to be introduced by June 2021

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Haywain

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Some people are lucky to earn £100 a day, so for them buying even an Off Peak Day Return at £35.70 is rather a large chunk of their wage gone. It is not good enough
Are they really likely to be travelling 80 miles to work?
 
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Watershed

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Also, this price is much more expensive than buying off peak day returns one by one, making it completely useless for regular weekend travels, with off peak day returns priced at £35.7.
Flexi Seasons aren't in any way intended for Off-Peak journeys. They are intended for the incredibly small niche of people who travel at peak times 2 days a week, every week, on a short to medium distance journey.

It's should come as no surprise that they are completely useless for weekend journeys.
 
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The Southeastern website doesn't show it. It returns no tickets with options London St Pancras - Dover Priory, adult, starting 17 July, flexi season only, no railcard.
Then you've found a bug! It does show the +HS1 one if you search the other way round, Dover to St Pancras. It also shows one I didn't mention, specifically to St Pancras via Blackfriars for a few pounds more, but oddly doesn't reveal the London Terminals 'not High Speed' fare. These fares may only be defined one way round, but any season ticket tool should really ignore that.
 

Haywain

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Then you've found a bug! It does show the +HS1 one if you search the other way round, Dover to St Pancras. It also shows one I didn't mention, specifically to St Pancras via Blackfriars for a few pounds more, but oddly doesn't reveal the London Terminals 'not High Speed' fare. These fares may only be defined one way round, but any season ticket tool should really ignore that.
I have noticed that quite a lot around London are only defined in one direction.
 

island

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Then you've found a bug! It does show the +HS1 one if you search the other way round, Dover to St Pancras. It also shows one I didn't mention, specifically to St Pancras via Blackfriars for a few pounds more, but oddly doesn't reveal the London Terminals 'not High Speed' fare. These fares may only be defined one way round, but any season ticket tool should really ignore that.
The flexi season search tool does seem a bit buggy when you pick the “opposite” direction to what is the “norm” for the journey.
 

PavlosA

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Appreciate some help on best ticket options with the flexi system. Tearing my hair out with it. My company has implemented 50/50 working over 2 weeks so many of us are going to be working 2 days one week, 3 the next. Thankfully I'm working straight 5 days over the two weeks so will move from annual to weekly, but for those doing, for example, Tue/Wed one week, then Tue/Wed/Thur the following week, what is the best option?

Are all weekly tickets only efficient when on 4 or more days a week, or does it work for some journeys on a 3-day week?

In my case, Gravesend to London, day return of £27.60 and weekly of £94.20 means a pattern like above (not a straight 5 days) is flexi all the way I guess.

But if someone works a 4-day week, then 1-day week, it should be a weekly and a daily is cheaper...
 

JonathanH

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But if someone works a 4-day week, then 1-day week, it should be a weekly and a daily is cheaper...
Yes, indeed, if someone could arrange Wed / Thu then Mon / Tue the following week, it makes sense to buy weekly tickets.

The issues and uncertainty all arise because there is no set ratio of weekly to daily fares and it differs by route. In some cases, the multiple for a weekly fare is less than 2 day returns, in others it can be close to 5, and in some contra-peak-flow situations a weekly might be more than 5 day returns.
 

PavlosA

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Thanks. I guess our issue is that one of the weeks will have at least three days, which on some routes a weekly may make sense, but on others not. At least where it doesn't they have the benefit of a flexi.
 

Haywain

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Are all weekly tickets only efficient when on 4 or more days a week, or does it work for some journeys on a 3-day week?
It very much depends on the journey. Some season tickets are priced at less than 2 day return tickets and some at more than 5.
 

Jimini

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Bit disappointed with the Avanti ones. It’s about £1k for a monthly season ticket from Coventry to town, and the eight day flexi tickets are over £800 I think (on phone at the moment, not laptop, so can’t check what I worked out earlier). That, plus the rather late start to off-peak (why is that, as an aside?) ticketing means it’s somewhat eye-watering.
 

Watershed

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Bit disappointed with the Avanti ones. It’s about £1k for a monthly season ticket from Coventry to town, and the eight day flexi tickets are over £800 I think (on phone at the moment, not laptop, so can’t check what I worked out earlier). That, plus the rather late start to off-peak (why is that, as an aside?) ticketing means it’s somewhat eye-watering.
The pricing policy for Flexi Seasons is a bit complicated.

But, on longer distance flows where the season ticket is a low multiple of the Anytime ticket (for Coventry-Euston a weekly is 1.58× an Anytime Return), you are likely to be paying 80% of the weekly season rate for 40% of the validity.

Getting a 20% discount on the already heavily "discounted" season ticket is the best deal you're going to get - as rubbish as it is.

Virgin Trains abolished the three-tier structure of walkup tickets on the WCML. So there's just the Anytime and the Off-Peak. The latter was formerly the SuperSaver (i.e. Super Off-Peak) fare, hence why it's so heavily restricted.
 

Haywain

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Bit disappointed with the Avanti ones. It’s about £1k for a monthly season ticket from Coventry to town, and the eight day flexi tickets are over £800 I think (on phone at the moment, not laptop, so can’t check what I worked out earlier). That, plus the rather late start to off-peak (why is that, as an aside?) ticketing means it’s somewhat eye-watering.
The weekly season (£269.10) is priced at less than 2 Anytime Return tickets, so the Flexi ticket was never going to look like a great deal although the price is actually £780 against £1033 for the monthly. And the late start to the Off Peak - it's to deter use for business travellers.

However, for that journey there are a number of cheaper options even without looking at Advance fares.
 

bugbugbugbug

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Bit disappointed with the Avanti ones. It’s about £1k for a monthly season ticket from Coventry to town, and the eight day flexi tickets are over £800 I think (on phone at the moment, not laptop, so can’t check what I worked out earlier). That, plus the rather late start to off-peak (why is that, as an aside?) ticketing means it’s somewhat eye-watering.

Even the advance tickets seems to fluctuate a lot, sometimes it's £45 and other times it's £60.

What's worst is the trains from Rugby to Euston, West Midlands is £20 cheaper and both takes the same time.
 

bugbugbugbug

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The weekly season (£269.10) is priced at less than 2 Anytime Return tickets, so the Flexi ticket was never going to look like a great deal although the price is actually £780 against £1033 for the monthly. And the late start to the Off Peak - it's to deter use for business travellers.

However, for that journey there are a number of cheaper options even without looking at Advance fares.

What are the cheaper options without Advance tickets?
 

paul1609

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I have noticed that quite a lot around London are only defined in one direction.
Surely that's because the anytime day return is differentially priced ie St Pancras to Dover is £51 ish, Dover to St Pancras is £81ish. The flexi ticket in the country morning direction is unlikely to undercut the anytime day return if it does its going to be bought by the town bound commuters causing a huge loss of overall revenue.
 

Haywain

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Surely that's because the anytime day return is differentially priced ie St Pancras to Dover is £51 ish, Dover to St Pancras is £81ish. The flexi ticket in the country morning direction is unlikely to undercut the anytime day return if it does its going to be bought by the town bound commuters causing a huge loss of overall revenue.
No, plenty where the day tickets are not priced by direction.
 

STINT47

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Now that flexi seasons have been on sale for a few weeks does anyone know how well they are selling?

I looked at one but it represented a small saving. GIven that I only needed to miss one day and I would be considerably out of pocket i concluded tgat the saving wasn't worth it given the risk.

Was wondering if others reached the same conclusion or of they have sold well?
 

Watershed

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Now that flexi seasons have been on sale for a few weeks does anyone know how well they are selling?

I looked at one but it represented a small saving. GIven that I only needed to miss one day and I would be considerably out of pocket i concluded tgat the saving wasn't worth it given the risk.

Was wondering if others reached the same conclusion or of they have sold well?
That conclusion will almost universally be true!

I suspect the TOCs are not exactly going to be shouting from the rooftops about the sales figures.
 

Wallsendmag

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Now that flexi seasons have been on sale for a few weeks does anyone know how well they are selling?

I looked at one but it represented a small saving. GIven that I only needed to miss one day and I would be considerably out of pocket i concluded tgat the saving wasn't worth it given the risk.

Was wondering if others reached the same conclusion or of they have sold well?
I doubt that anyone who knows would share that info .
 

infobleep

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Not if they valued their job, anyway!
Still, if no figures come out, one can cynically assume it wasn't many.

Could this be FOI:ed, given the government is taking the revenue risk? I did do some FOI exception training recently and I'm not sure if this would be covered my commercial confidentially and even if it was, would the public interest test be of higher importance?
 

JonathanH

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Another possibility is to try and get your MP to ask a question about how successful they have been and whether they the saving they offer is deemed sufficient. It would be interesting to know whether it is an issue that is filling MP's inboxes and postboxes.
 

TUC

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Flexi Seasons aren't in any way intended for Off-Peak journeys. They are intended for the incredibly small niche of people who travel at peak times 2 days a week, every week, on a short to medium distance journey.

It's should come as no surprise that they are completely useless for weekend journeys.
Not sure that is so small a niche these days. Even pre-Covid I was only in the office 3 days a week at most.
 

Watershed

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Not sure that is so small a niche these days. Even pre-Covid I was only in the office 3 days a week at most.
The issue is that for most flows you must consistently travel 2 days a week, every week for 4 weeks, to see any saving.

As soon as you travel one day more or less, you will likely lose out (either because you're wasting validity, or because you would have been better off getting a fully fledged season).

Even when you meet those strict criteria, the saving is rather miserly, considering the interest free credit you've extended to the rail industry.
 

TUC

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The issue is that for most flows you must consistently travel 2 days a week, every week for 4 weeks, to see any saving.

As soon as you travel one day more or less, you will likely lose out (either because you're wasting validity, or because you would have been better off getting a fully fledged season).

Even when you meet those strict criteria, the saving is rather miserly, considering the interest free credit you've extended to the rail industry.
I agree. I think it is miserly. The industry and DfT needs to not view the tickets as a concession, but far more as guaranteed income, spread over a longer period than season tickets, but still worth a larger discount than currently being offeed.

I do suspect there is a strong London-centric element to the issue too, thinking that most people will still need to use rail anyway when in the office, so why offer much of a discount? That fails to recognise that, outside London, rail is far more in competition with the car as a viable way to travel to work.
 

infobleep

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If I need to go to the office for 2 days one week and before 9.30 am, I would consider whether to go in 5 working days in a row and then not go in for another week or more.

If a company ever required 50% working in the office I would ask if it could be one week in and one week off. That would be better than 3 or 2 days at a time.
 
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