ForTheLoveOf
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- 7 Oct 2017
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As per Article (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/troubleshooter-forced-to-pay-twice-for-a-rail-ticket-wv2pnjcbt):
In short, Mr Dunne had 2 Two Together discounted Advances. The other passenger on the Railcard could not be there to take the train, so Mr Dunne went on his own - showing the railcard as well as both tickets. He had no problem on the way north with LNER. On his way south, however, he was charged (presumably) an excess of £150 by VTWC to change his Advance to an undiscounted Anytime Single.
In my view, whilst it may indeed be a breach of the Railcard terms to travel with just one of the two passengers required to use the Two Together Railcard, VTWC have not approached the situation correctly - and may even be in breach of consumer and common/contract law by charging £150.
This is because there is no fare avoided if a passenger books two tickets with a Two Together Railcard, as opposed to one ticket without a Railcard. The two Railcard-discounted tickets combined will always cost at least 133% of one undiscounted ticket! This is different to if the same had happened with a Family Railcard and no children were present - as here there is actually a small saving over the undiscounted adult fare (due to the 60% off the already half-price child fare).
In my view, given that the passenger showed both tickets (and because they were Advances) there can be no argument that he was materially in breach of the Railcard terms. Furthermore, in my view, as no passenger will ever advised, when booking, that the cost (or penalty) for travelling alone is £150 - and as this is far beyond what anyone might consider a reasonable charge for that kind of a journey having already bought two tickets - I think VTWC would struggle to justify the charge if it came to Court (i.e. if the passenger gave his name and address and didn't pay there and then).
I think the issue of the level of excess fares - or of fares in general where the passenger has to pay the undiscounted amount on board - is an interesting subject in general. I wonder whether Section 51 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 might come into force in such a situation, and if so, what might be deemed a reasonable price for Carlisle to London.
I also wonder whether a Court might hold a £150 excess (effectively a penalty-like charge) enforceable or not in the wake of the parking law case, ParkingEye v Beavis. There it was ruled that contractually agreed penalties can be enforceable in the context of a consumer contract, however the charge must be made amply clear before the contract is entered into, and it must also serve a legitimate purpose (e.g. in that case, to discourage the misuse of a free retail car park).
I'd be interested to hear any other views on this subject and any of the matters it raises.
I bought two tickets to Edinburgh with Virgin East Coast, now London North Eastern Railway (LNER), using my Two Together railcard. My return ticket was with Virgin Trains on its west coast line from Carlisle to London. Unfortunately my friend (the other person on my Two Together railcard) missed his flight from Barbados. My dilemma was to cancel the trip or to travel on my own. The train tickets were advance tickets, so non-refundable. I decided not to waste them both.
Travelling to Edinburgh was without incident. I showed my tickets and my railcard. However, when returning the guard said my tickets were not valid because the other person wasn’t with me. I had to pay £150 for a new ticket.
I had already paid £79.20 in April for the two original tickets. If I had known three months earlier that I would be travelling alone I could have bought a ticket for £61. The guard indicated that I was being dishonest, but I had paid more than a regular first-class ticket. I would like to know what the rules are.
- Derek Dunne, via email
Two Together railcard offers you a third off a train ticket for two people taking a journey together, provided that both people’s photographs are on the card. The railcard costs £30.
Had Mr Dunne bought a ticket for only himself, without the railcard, he would have paid £61. Instead he ended up paying £229 to travel on his own. This seems very harsh — he had both tickets with him and, as he says: “It’s not as if I ate two free lunches on the train, or drank the free wine for two.”
I can understand that identification is an issue. You cannot buy a railcard and bring along someone who does not appear on it, otherwise the card would be open to abuse. Yet I don’t think it should be that big a deal; no one used the other ticket anyway.
Mr Dunne has been trying to get an answer as to the rules, but he says: “It seems to depend on the rail company and the conductor. The first conductor did indicate that I would have a problem with the next conductor, but he didn’t charge me.”
A spokesman for Virgin Trains confirmed that the conductor who charged the £150 was correct. “We’re sorry for the confusion caused during Mr Dunne’s journey. The rules around using a Two Together railcard are clear; both named individuals have to make the journey and this should have been enforced on all legs of the journey.”
In short, Mr Dunne had 2 Two Together discounted Advances. The other passenger on the Railcard could not be there to take the train, so Mr Dunne went on his own - showing the railcard as well as both tickets. He had no problem on the way north with LNER. On his way south, however, he was charged (presumably) an excess of £150 by VTWC to change his Advance to an undiscounted Anytime Single.
In my view, whilst it may indeed be a breach of the Railcard terms to travel with just one of the two passengers required to use the Two Together Railcard, VTWC have not approached the situation correctly - and may even be in breach of consumer and common/contract law by charging £150.
This is because there is no fare avoided if a passenger books two tickets with a Two Together Railcard, as opposed to one ticket without a Railcard. The two Railcard-discounted tickets combined will always cost at least 133% of one undiscounted ticket! This is different to if the same had happened with a Family Railcard and no children were present - as here there is actually a small saving over the undiscounted adult fare (due to the 60% off the already half-price child fare).
In my view, given that the passenger showed both tickets (and because they were Advances) there can be no argument that he was materially in breach of the Railcard terms. Furthermore, in my view, as no passenger will ever advised, when booking, that the cost (or penalty) for travelling alone is £150 - and as this is far beyond what anyone might consider a reasonable charge for that kind of a journey having already bought two tickets - I think VTWC would struggle to justify the charge if it came to Court (i.e. if the passenger gave his name and address and didn't pay there and then).
I think the issue of the level of excess fares - or of fares in general where the passenger has to pay the undiscounted amount on board - is an interesting subject in general. I wonder whether Section 51 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 might come into force in such a situation, and if so, what might be deemed a reasonable price for Carlisle to London.
I also wonder whether a Court might hold a £150 excess (effectively a penalty-like charge) enforceable or not in the wake of the parking law case, ParkingEye v Beavis. There it was ruled that contractually agreed penalties can be enforceable in the context of a consumer contract, however the charge must be made amply clear before the contract is entered into, and it must also serve a legitimate purpose (e.g. in that case, to discourage the misuse of a free retail car park).
I'd be interested to hear any other views on this subject and any of the matters it raises.