Formula 1

[Tetchytyke]

Cars nowadays also have anti-stall, so no need for marshals' assistance.

Nah, Senna had to be pulled backwards because his wheels were interlocked with Prost's. I still think he was rightly disqualified.

And instantly went to pot after winning his F1 title.

I think that's unfair too, the 98 Williams was terrible without Newey and without Renault, and the early BARs weren't any better. He'd clearly tuned out by the end though, he stuck around too long.

He wiped the floor with Frentzen in 97 and 98, after all, and pushed Hill all the way to the last race in 96. I don't think you can call a CART and F1 champion and Indy500 winner a fluke.

 

[Darandio]

And instantly went to pot after winning his F1 title. So if he's not a fraud, he's a fluke.

Did you see the FW20? It was effectively the car he won the world title in, just with a different livery. They didn't move forward at all that year.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Being the GOAT of your era includes making good career choices. Villeneuve let his mouth write checks he couldn't cash and that's how he wound up out of BAR. It's cool and all being able to press the loud peddle the hardest, but that doesn't make you the best (it's also why I don't like Verstappen).

 

[Tetchytyke]

Villeneuve let his mouth write checks he couldn't cash and that's how he wound up out of BAR.

He's a pillock and always has been, but that doesn't make him a fluke. He did the business in 96 and 97, he made Frentzen look amateur, and even in 98 he dragged that Williams (which without Newey and without Renault was rubbish) on to the podium.

He ended up out of BAR because Button (another very underrated driver) beat him but, mainly, because Dave Richards couldn't stand him. His time at Sauber was embarrassing though.

I wouldn't say he was GOAT- Schumacher, Hakkinen, even Hill and Coulthard were better- but he did the job. You can't really dismiss him as a fluke with an IndyCar and F1 title to his name. He is a pillock though, as you say, a lot like Verstappen.

 

[Geezertronic]

Cars nowadays also have anti-stall, so no need for marshals' assistance.

They also allow the driver to start the car back up via the battery if they do stall

 

[D365]

They also allow the driver to start the car back up via the battery if they do stall

Some powertrains are capable, some aren’t. I can’t remember which ones, off the top of my head.

 

[Domh245]

Some powertrains are capable, some aren’t. I can’t remember which ones, off the top of my head.

Ferrari and Renault have been seen to do it. We've not seen Mercedes or Honda PUs do it, but I'd be surprised if they didn't have the capability, they are all mandated to have the MGU-K coupled to the crank in the same way

 

[greatvoyager]

They also allow the driver to start the car back up via the battery if they do stall

Interesting, I never knew that.

 

[Pete_uk]

I was shocked the first time I saw it happen!

 

[birchesgreen]

Interesting they discussed this today during the mayhem of Q2 and some cars needing to start themselves while waiting in the pit lane.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Mika Salo is in some hot water after leaking the results of Hamilton's penalty to the Finnish broadcasters before it was officially announced (which included erroneously saying he'd get 4 penalty points). The broadcasters insist that their anonymous source isn't Mika. Yeah, I totally believe them, 100%.

 

[D365]

Mika Salo is in some hot water after leaking the results of Hamilton's penalty to the Finnish broadcasters before it was officially announced (which included erroneously saying he'd get 4 penalty points). The broadcasters insist that their anonymous source isn't Mika. Yeah, I totally believe them, 100%.

As it happens, he was discussing his role as a driver steward in his Beyond the Grid podcast interview a few months back. I'll be rather disappointed if it turns out to be true.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Honda is quitting F1 after 2021 (again)

Honda to leave F1 at the end of 2021 | Formula 1®

Red Bull and AlphaTauri are on the search for a new power unit supplier after Honda made the shock decision to withdraw from Formula 1 at the end of 2021…

www.formula1.com

Red Bull and AlphaTauri are on the search for a new power unit supplier after the shock announcement that Honda will withdraw from Formula 1 at the end of 2021.

The Japanese engine manufacturer returned to the championship in 2015 with McLaren, having been inspired by the new breed of power units that focused on hybrid and energy recovery technology.

They suffered a difficult and unsuccessful partnership, culminating in them splitting up and Honda joining forces with Toro Rosso for 2018, before taking on Red Bull as a works team the following year.

Across the two teams, they have clinched five race victories to date in their two-and-a-half-year partnership with the Red Bull family.

However, Honda have decided not to continue beyond their current arrangement with Red Bull and AlphaTauri, which exists until the end of next year.

Honda said the decision had been made because the automobile industry was going through a "once-in-one-hundred-years period of great transformation" and that they'll leave having been "able to attain its goal of earning victories".

"Honda will work together with Red Bull Racing and Scuderia AlphaTauri to continue competing with its utmost effort and strive for more victories all the way to the end of the 2021 season," the Japanese company added in a statement.

The decision will leave Formula 1 with three power unit suppliers – Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. Under the current rules, Renault would be obliged to supply Red Bull and AlphaTauri with engines as they currently have the fewest customers, unless the teams can convince Mercedes or Ferrari to provide a supply.

Red Bull – on behalf of both their works team and AlphaTauri – have recently committed to the new Concorde Agreement, which binds them to the championship until the end of 2025.

"We look forward to embarking on a new era of innovation, development and success," said Red Bull boss Christian Horner, who said he understood and respected Honda's decision.

"As a group, we will now take the time afforded to us to further evaluate and find the most competitive power unit solution for 2022 and beyond.”

 

[37424]

Honda is quitting F1 after 2021 (again)

Honda to leave F1 at the end of 2021 | Formula 1®

Red Bull and AlphaTauri are on the search for a new power unit supplier after Honda made the shock decision to withdraw from Formula 1 at the end of 2021…

www.formula1.com

Wow that's a surprise Max to Merc in 2022 then, maybe even in 2021 if Hamilton doesn't hurry up and re sign!

 

[SteveM70]

acques is a bit of a pillock but so was his dad, really.

Gilles Villeneuve wasn’t a pillock in the slightest.

He was an absolute lunatic for sure - the wet practice session at Watkins Glen when he was 11 seconds quicker than anyone else is testament to that. http://www.f1speedwriter.com/2015/10/fantastic-unbelieveable-villeneuve-in.html?m=1 is a good account of that weekend.

But he was a fantastic racing driver - he was stuck in a dog of a car most of the time but still got results. The French Grand Prix where he beat Rene Arnoux was spellbinding. He made F1 exciting, let alone merely interesting.

 

[bearhugger]

Honda is quitting F1 after 2021 (again)

Honda to leave F1 at the end of 2021 | Formula 1®

Red Bull and AlphaTauri are on the search for a new power unit supplier after Honda made the shock decision to withdraw from Formula 1 at the end of 2021…

www.formula1.com

Just read the BBC BBC article and it certainly puts Red Bull & Alpha Tauri in an interesting position after their spat & split with Renault. I wasn't aware that Mercedes had refused to supply Red Bull so does that effectively leave Ferrari to supply engines or is there a possibilty (however slim) that another manufacturer will step in? I'm glad I'm not Christian Horner at the moment.

 

[Domh245]

Just read the BBC BBC article and it certainly puts Red Bull & Alpha Tauri in an interesting position after their spat & split with Renault. I wasn't aware that Mercedes had refused to supply Red Bull so does that effectively leave Ferrari to supply engines or is there a possibilty (however slim) that another manufacturer will step in? I'm glad I'm not Christian Horner at the moment.

Chance of a new manufacturer coming in are nil - nobody will want to develop an engine that'll only have 3 years of use (the current regulations run through to 2025)

I would think that Ferrari will only be able to supply one of the teams with a current power unit, which would take them up to 4 teams which begins to stretch resources considerably. It'll either be 1 Renault and 1 Ferrari, or 2 Renaults - my money would be on the latter given the desire to run RB & AT as 'sister teams' but there's certainly a possibility that they won't be Renault badged. Possibly a chance to see Tag Heuer PUs back again

 

[bearhugger]

Chance of a new manufacturer coming in are nil - nobody will want to develop an engine that'll only have 3 years of use (the current regulations run through to 2025)

I would think that Ferrari will only be able to supply one of the teams with a current power unit, which would take them up to 4 teams which begins to stretch resources considerably. It'll either be 1 Renault and 1 Ferrari, or 2 Renaults - my money would be on the latter given the desire to run RB & AT as 'sister teams' but there's certainly a possibility that they won't be Renault badged. Possibly a chance to see Tag Heuer PUs back again

I thought a new manufacturer coming in would be slim to nil, and going back to Renault could be seen as quite humiliating for Red Bull.

 

[Domh245]

going back to Renault could be seen as quite humiliating for Red Bull.

That's why I expect that they'll be trying to badge them as anything except Renault! It's a bit pointless as I suspect anyone who follows the sport close enough to know who is powering the car and the spat back in 2016/17 won't be fooled by the PUs being called anything else

 

[birchesgreen]

F1's best bet would be to go back to V8s. Just having 3 engine suppliers isn't sustainable.

Or go electric asap.

 

[najaB]

F1's best bet would be to go back to V8s. Just having 3 engine suppliers isn't sustainable.

How would that increase the number of suppliers?

Chance of a new manufacturer coming in are nil - nobody will want to develop an engine that'll only have 3 years of use (the current regulations run through to 2025)

If F1 want to tempt a new manufacturer in they'll likely give them assurances for the post-2025 period as well.

 

[Domh245]

If F1 want to tempt a new manufacturer in they'll likely give them assurances for the post-2025 period as well.

The only way they'll tempt a new manufacturer is by getting the 2025 regulations 1) out ASAP, and 2) appealing to manufacturers. They could choose to carry the current regulations forward, but it's highly unlikely IMO, they'd do much better by (good as) scrapping the whole regulations and starting again with something more attractive which all comes back to nobody coming in pre 25

 

[birchesgreen]

How would that increase the number of suppliers?

As its a less complicated more traditional technology you might find more companies with the means and resources to produce an engine. It wouldn't happen though.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Max to Merc in 2022

not happening in the slightest. Perhaps Aston Martin when they realise that Seb is washed.

I'm glad I'm not Christian Horner at the moment.

Oh dear, the poor thing. Burning the bridges with Renault & Cyril will bite him hard. Perhaps Red Bull or someone else (like McLaren or possibly another interested party) could buy the Honda program.

 

[najaB]

Perhaps Red Bull or someone else (like McLaren or possibly another interested party) could buy the Honda program.

Ross Brawn?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Ross Brawn?

Nah, I don't think Brawn will be interested, besides, he has to look after the 2022 regs and probably the 2026 engine regs.

 

[najaB]

Nah, I don't think Brawn will be interested, besides, he has to look after the 2022 regs and probably the 2026 engine regs.

Oh well. It would be nice to see another Brawn GP.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Oh well. It would be nice to see another Brawn GP.

BrawnGP only happened because Honda took their bat and ball home last time too. They'll be back soon enough. They always take their bat and ball home when they're not winning.

As its a less complicated more traditional technology you might find more companies with the means and resources to produce an engine. It wouldn't happen though.

As for "going back to V8s", manufacturers don't want to be associated with old technology.

 

[birchesgreen]

As for "going back to V8s", manufacturers don't want to be associated with old technology.

Yes they are queuing up to to join the current formula as we can see. Most motor manufacturers are moving to EVs as fast as they can. F1 simply isn't relevant for them tech wise. I read recently that Mercedes are in purely for PR/glory, not any tech development. So F1 need to decide if they are going to move into EVs too or go back to something accessible that smaller manufacturers can develop. It is an interesting problem for them. Now there are just 3 engine makers, all with their own works teams. If one of those decided to quit too it could be all over for F1.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Most motor manufacturers are moving to EVs as fast as they can. F1 simply isn't relevant for them tech wise.

The thermal efficiency of the F1 hybrids is absolutely outstanding. There are no all-electric supercars, all use hybrid powertrains just like in F1. The technology is used all the time.

Formula E shows just how much electric technology is lagging behind.

I'm surprised Toyota are persisting with LMP1, given how expensive it is and given how nobody cares about LMP1. Without googling it, I couldn't tell you who won Le Mans last week.