Formula 1

[wireforever]

The F1 'duel in the desert' and now the UEFA champions league draw having to be redrawn you just couldn't make it up!

 

[43096]

The F1 'duel in the desert' and now the UEFA champions league draw having to be redrawn you just couldn't make it up!

Did Michael Masi oversee the Champions League draw?!

 

[LOL The Irony]

Whether Masi has to go, is up to the FIA, but Mercedes won't take it well if he stays.

Massi is due to be supplemented by a guy from DTM (So another person from touring cars. The guy who oversaw the controversial final race.) starting next season, who'll also take over F2 & F3 duties. I'd like to see someone from the ACO/endurance racing come in. I do notice that F1's stocks took a .66% drop on the NASDAQ from this.

 

[the sniper]

Max is the Champion. Whether he should
be or not, there is no way to resolve this without Max being Champion.

Are they appealing both decisions or just the one regarding the restart? Max pushed his luck behind the safety car quite unnecessarily and a blind eye was turned to it. It'd admittedly be quite something if it cost him the title, but if he strictly contravened the rules as it appeared, he'd have done it to himself... He had no reason to be in that position or take that risk.

It's all a bit ugly, but I'm still kind of amazed by the situation that Masi managed to engineer. As I say, normally I'd entirely agree with you, but the way this all played out seems incredibly egregious.

 

[Geezertronic]

Masi engineered a Hollywood finish by letting only the lapped cars between Lewis and Max through. Was definitely not right and is a unique one-off as far as Safety Car procedure is concerned, but Massi has not done himself nor F1 any favours with his latest inconsistency

Mercedes should appeal if only to clarify whether the rules were effectively interpreted, and even to get the rules clarified for next season and beyond so they cannot be (mis)interpreted by the Race Director

 

[Domh245]

Massi is due to be supplemented by a guy from DTM (So another person from touring cars. The guy who oversaw the controversial final race.) starting next season

Oh joy!

I'd like to see someone from the ACO/endurance racing come in.

Whilst it'd bring a degree of sorely missing professionalism, leave Eduardo where he is - both for the sake of WEC but also his own sake. F1 race director is something of a poisoned chalice as the role stands. It should also be noted that WEC has hardly been without race direction controversy recently!

I'm also not entirely convinced that bringing in someone from endurance racing would transfer well to the sprint format of F1 with the differences between the two - I do think Masi could have been alright with a year or two's tutelage under Charlie to better learn the ropes, he's suffering from trying to cover ~4 roles with basically zero training.

Are they appealing both decisions or just the one regarding the restart? Max pushed his luck behind the safety car quite unnecessarily and a blind eye was turned to it. It'd admittedly be quite something if it cost him the title, but if he strictly contravened the rules as it appeared, he'd have done it to himself... He had no reason to be in that position or take that risk.

Just the restart procedure. The overtaking under SC was fairly weak, and could very easily backfire when the telemetry shows Hamilton's driving is not technically in compliance with article 48.13

In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other drivers or impede the restart.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Whilst it'd bring a degree of sorely missing professionalism, leave Eduardo where he is - both for the sake of WEC but also his own sake.

Agreed, but maybe someone else.

I do think Masi could have been alright with a year or two's tutelage under Charlie to better learn the ropes, he's suffering from trying to cover ~4 roles with basically zero training.

He had how many days between Abu Dhabi 2019 and Austria 2020 to read up on past rulings to get the general idea? He also now has 90 odd to hit the books.

 

[DarloRich]

F1 race director is something of a poisoned chalice as the role stands.

I will do it. I am afraid my radio manner might be more industrial with moaning team people and hissy drivers. It would be a rod of iron. I would dock points for them looking at me funny

 

[SynthD]

I do think Masi could have been alright with a year or two's tutelage under Charlie to better learn the ropes, he's suffering from trying to cover ~4 roles with basically zero training.

They did replace Charlie with four roles. Masi isn’t covering the same set of tasks.

 

[Darandio]

They did replace Charlie with four roles. Masi isn’t covering the same set of tasks.

The problem is they didn't put personnel in the roles.

 

[swt_passenger]

…Just the restart procedure. The overtaking under SC was fairly weak, and could very easily backfire when the telemetry shows Hamilton's driving is not technically in compliance with article 48.13

Was that rule brought in after a race a few years back, (I can’t remember where), I think most of the back of the field ran into the front as it slowed? Brought the SC back out next lap…

 

[jb108822]

Was that rule brought in after a race a few years back, (I can’t remember where), I think most of the back of the field ran into the front as it slowed? Brought the SC back out next lap…

Could you be thinking of Mugello last year, possibly?

 

[swt_passenger]

Could you be thinking of Mugello last year, possibly?

I thought it was much further back but you might be right.

 

[JamesT]

I thought it was much further back but you might be right.

Are you thinking of Baku 2017 where Vettel claimed Hamilton had brake checked him when Vettel ran into the back of Hamilton during a safety car period? The rules on driving slowly or erratically already existed then. I think the rule about being within a certain distance (10 car lengths?) of the car in front may be more recent.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are you thinking of Baku 2017 where Vettel claimed Hamilton had brake checked him when Vettel ran into the back of Hamilton during a safety car period? The rules on driving slowly or erratically already existed then. I think the rule about being within a certain distance (10 car lengths?) of the car in front may be more recent.

No, it was definitely a multiple incident towards the rear of the field I was remembering. Just seemed a lot longer ago.

 

[najaB]

To get away from the controversial end of the season, a light-hearted video from F1 TV:

(It probably won't embed but you can open it directly on YouTube)

 

[LOL The Irony]

Audi are claiming in a letter to the FIA that they'll announce their entry into F1 next year.

Audi tells FIA it intends to confirm F1 entry early next year

Audi intends to confirm its entry to Formula 1 early next year, the manufacturer has advised the sport and its governing body, the FIA.

www.racefans.net

Audi intends to confirm early next year its plans to enter to Formula 1, the manufacturer has advised the sport and its governing body, the FIA.


Audi board chairman Markus Duesmann and Audi Technical Development board member Oliver Hoffmann indicated the manufacturer is satisfied with the progress the FIA has made with new technical regulations for the 2026 power units.


F1 is seeking a new manufacturer to join Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault following the departure of Honda, whose engines will now be prepared by Red Bull. Two Volkswagen Group brands, Audi and Porsche, have shown interest, and the former has now indicated it is close to making a commitment.

In a letter sent on Tuesday Duesmann and Hoffmann told F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali and outgoing FIA president Jean Todt they believe the draft regulations offer a fair compromise for newcomers and existing competitors, as well as meeting the objectives agreed for the new power units.

The FIA World Motor Sport Council subsequently confirmed the 2026 power units will retain the existing 1.6-litre V6 engines and increase the amount of electrical energy they can generate, while doing away with the expensive MGU-H. Power unit costs will also be capped for the first time.

The management board and supervisory board of Audi will now decide whether to formally approve its entry into the championship.

In an apparent swipe to rivals Mercedes, Duesmann and Hoffmann opened their the letter – seen by RaceFans – by congratulating Todt on what it regarded as a fair conclusion to this year’s Formula 1 championship. They referred specifically to the final lap, on which Max Verstappen passed Lewis Hamilton to clinch the title following a controversial restart, which Mercedes considered appealing against for four days before backing down.

 

[75A]

Audi are claiming in a letter to the FIA that they'll announce their entry into F1 next year.

Audi tells FIA it intends to confirm F1 entry early next year

Audi intends to confirm its entry to Formula 1 early next year, the manufacturer has advised the sport and its governing body, the FIA.

www.racefans.net

No doubt Horner will whinge about that then.

 

[PG]

No doubt Horner will whinge about that then.

If anything I'd expect he'd be in favour of the introduction of a cap on power unit costs.

 

[DelW]

In another break-the-irony-meter moment, the incoming FIA president suggested that the FIA might punish Hamilton for not attending the awards bash (as the top three drivers are supposed to do) because "rules are rules"
Of course, if the race director had accepted that "rules are rules", it's highly likely that Hamilton would have attended - as world champion.

 

[SynthD]

If anything I'd expect he'd be in favour of the introduction of a cap on power unit costs.

He is, but only after he's had a few years to 'catch up' with the engine manufacturers that have been around for a while. The last time someone took over from Honda, Brawn GP won their first year.

 

[najaB]

He is, but only after he's had a few years to 'catch up' with the engine manufacturers that have been around for a while.

Doesn't seem that the Honda engine was that far behind this year. If any manufacturer needs to 'catch up' it's Renault.

 

[PG]

He is, but only after he's had a few years to 'catch up' with the engine manufacturers that have been around for a while. The last time someone took over from Honda, Brawn GP won their first year.

That wasn't with a Honda power unit though, as Brawn used Mercedes engines they obtained late on necessitating hurried modifications to get it to fit into the chassis.

 

[LOL The Irony]

No doubt Horner will whinge about that then.

Considering the 2 brands previous partnerships, I highly doubt it. At present, the most like recipients of a VAG engine are;
Red Bull/Alpha Tauri - RB and Audi go back a while
Williams - Home to several former VW WRC guys, including their team principle Jost Capito
McLaren - Andreas Seidl, the former team principle of Porsche's LMP1 team

 

[JamesT]

Doesn't seem that the Honda engine was that far behind this year. If any manufacturer needs to 'catch up' it's Renault.

Renault are at somewhat of a disadvantage as they only supply their own team Alpine, so don’t have as much data as the engines supplied to multiple teams.

Considering the 2 brands previous partnerships, I highly doubt it. At present, the most like recipients of a VAG engine are;
Red Bull/Alpha Tauri - RB and Audi go back a while
Williams - Home to several former VW WRC guys, including their team principle Jost Capito
McLaren - Andreas Seidl, the former team principle of Porsche's LMP1 team

I’m assuming that initially at least VAG are looking at running a team rather than just engines. Is there anyone likely to want to sell up or could we get an expansion in the number of runners?
Although some teams may have previous links to VAG, are they going to be keen to jump ship to a new engine supplier? We saw how well that went for McLaren when Honda returned.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I’m assuming that initially at least VAG are looking at running a team rather than just engines. Is there anyone likely to want to sell up or could we get an expansion in the number of runners?

Well Williams's PU and gearbox deal with Mercedes ends in 2025. New regs come into force in 2026, so would be a good time to get onto the grid, although probably in a manner similar to Mclaren Mercedes so Williams can keep their heritage payments.

 

[Domh245]

I’m assuming that initially at least VAG are looking at running a team rather than just engines. Is there anyone likely to want to sell up or could we get an expansion in the number of runners?

I'd be amazed if we saw VAG enter as anything other than just a PU manufacturer to start. It's difficult (& expensive!) enough to develop & build a competitive power unit, let alone also develop & build a competitive chassis and put together a competitive race team.

 

[birchesgreen]

I'd be amazed if we saw VAG enter as anything other than just a PU manufacturer to start. It's difficult (& expensive!) enough to develop & build a competitive power unit, let alone also develop & build a competitive chassis and put together a competitive race team.

Unless they do what Mercedes do and buy a decent team to get a head start.

 

[JamesT]

I'd be amazed if we saw VAG enter as anything other than just a PU manufacturer to start. It's difficult (& expensive!) enough to develop & build a competitive power unit, let alone also develop & build a competitive chassis and put together a competitive race team.

I agree it is difficult and expensive to do a whole team. But the car manufacturers are mainly in F1 as a promotional tool. There’s far more kudos attached to being a team than the engine supplier. Most people could tell you that Sebastian Vettel won his titles in a Red Bull, how many could tell you it had a Renault engine?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Unless they do what Mercedes do and buy a decent team to get a head start.

Brawn wasn't a decent team. The BGP001 being as good as it was, was a complete fluke. As shown by the 2010 Mercedes being nowhere near as good. It took until the change in the engine regs for them to consistently fight for wins.

I agree it is difficult and expensive to do a whole team. But the car manufacturers are mainly in F1 as a promotional tool. There’s far more kudos attached to being a team than the engine supplier. Most people could tell you that Sebastian Vettel won his titles in a Red Bull, how many could tell you it had a Renault engine?

Lets look at Mercedes in their current guise. They started in 1993 by supporting Sauber and Ilmor, before pulling out at the last moment and returning for 1994. They then continued their partnership with Ilmor by contracting them to supply McLaren for 1995. McLaren of course then became the factory team until 2010, when Mercedes bought Brawn. It wasn't until 2014 when they won their first WCC as a constructor.