Formula 1

[Domh245]

Delighted to see Danny Ric back on the podium, he's been driving the wheels off that Renault. It'll be interesting to see if he's made the right call in jumping to a Merc-powered McLaren next year. That McLaren seems a decent piece of kit, I reckon Norris would have been well placed before his engine went.

The midfield battle between McLaren, Renault & Racing Point is the main thing I'm tuning in for most weekends - especially now the championship fight is absolutely over*

I see Albon is still as thick as two short planks. How he's keeping that seat is quite beyond me, even with Red Bull upsetting all their young drivers. The guy's a clown. Even Dan Ticktum would do better.

"They race me so hard" - I had to check I'd heard it right! Today definitely won't have done him any favours and I think that guarantees somebody new alongside Max in 2021, the question is if this new second driver joins over the winter, or in Portugal next time out



*OK, it's been over since Hamilton beat Bottas in Race 2, but at this point it's staked through the heart, 6ft underground and concreted over!

 

[LOL The Irony]

the question is if this new second driver joins over the winter, or in Portugal next time out

Honda has made them eat so much humble pie this last week and a half, they'll wait until the seasons over before replacing him to save what little dignity and face they have left.

 

[D365]

Is there any chance at all that Hulk will be in with a shot of the Red Bull seat? Or am I just dreaming.

 

[JamesT]

Is there any chance at all that Hulk will be in with a shot of the Red Bull seat? Or am I just dreaming.

It would be a fairly major change of approach from Red Bull. They’ve been pretty consistent in promoting drivers from their junior programme through Toro Rosso then to Red Bull.

 

[D365]

It would be a fairly major change of approach from Red Bull. They’ve been pretty consistent in promoting drivers from their junior programme through Toro Rosso then to Red Bull.

Absolutely. But they do seem to be adamant that AlphaTauri is now a true "sister team", rather than the junior outfit. Gasly, in his current role, seems the perfect lead driver.

I've been wanting to stick up for Albon, especially after his podium. Normally I give radio comments the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not so sure today.

 

[LOL The Irony]

After those radio comments, Albon is done.

Is there any chance at all that Hulk will be in with a shot of the Red Bull seat? Or am I just dreaming.

He's less obvious. The more obvious ones are Gasly, Kvyat and Checo.

 

[Tetchytyke]

"They race me so hard!". Yes, Alex, that's because you're in a Grand Prix and Alpha Tauri are supposed to be a competitor. And in Gasly, the man you laughed at when you nicked his seat, it IS personal.

I wasn't even referring to the radio comments so much as whacking Kvyat's front wing off, almost taking Gasly out, and generally being an idiot.

It would be a fairly major change of approach from Red Bull. They’ve been pretty consistent in promoting drivers from their junior programme through Toro Rosso then to Red Bull.

Trouble is they've run out of young drivers because sensible young drivers now want nothing to do with them. That's why Kvyat is still there. It's why they gave Dan Ticktum so many chances before eventually firing him.

Look how many careers they've destroyed- Buemi, Alguersuari, Bourdais, Speed, Kvyat (almost!), Vergne. Now some weren't good enough (Hartley) but most were decent enough.

I think that they need an experienced head in the Red Bull. Trouble is finding one who's happy to be Max's patsy, because they don't want someone who'll challenge him too hard and show him up like Danny Ric regularly did. I can't see Checo or Hulk sitting quietly like good little boys.

The midfield battle between McLaren, Renault & Racing Point is the main thing I'm tuning in for most weekends - especially now the championship fight is absolutely over*

Ferrari too. Their car isn't brilliant and Leclerc is getting more than the most out of it, but it's not as bad as Vettel is making it look.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Is there any chance at all that Hulk will be in with a shot of the Red Bull seat? Or am I just dreaming.

Red Bull apparently asked Hulkenberg if he was available for this weekend after Albon had an inconclusive test so while it would be a big policy change I don't think it's impossible. I'd been impressed with Hulkenberg when he won Le Mans in the number 3 Porsche and the other two cars had no problems, his performance this weekend given he was only asked on Saturday morning was extremely impressive. I feel sorry for the Toro Rosso drivers that have been promoted to the main team and are then under huge pressure to deliver quickly under which in most cases they don't do well and then are kicked out again. Albon had a terrible race making a lot of mistakes but I suspect a lot of that is down to the fact he's desperately trying to hold onto his seat. Vettel and Verstappen clearly worked well but many haven't and it's not just a lack of performance for red bull that's the issue but the mental damage it does to the drivers as well.

 

[D365]

Red Bull apparently asked Hulkenberg if he was available for this weekend after Albon had an inconclusive test so while it would be a big policy change I don't think it's impossible. I'd been impressed with Hulkenberg when he won Le Mans in the number 3 Porsche and the other two cars had no problems, his performance this weekend given he was only asked on Saturday morning was extremely impressive.

Exactly my thoughts. Buemi and Sette Camara are the “official” RB/AT reserves, but I don’t think that either of them have sampled modern F1 machinery.

feel sorry for the Toro Rosso drivers that have been promoted to the main team and are then under huge pressure to deliver quickly under which in most cases they don't do well and then are kicked out again. Albon had a terrible race making a lot of mistakes but I suspect a lot of that is down to the fact he's desperately trying to hold onto his seat. Vettel and Verstappen clearly worked well but many haven't and it's not just a lack of performance for red bull that's the issue but the mental damage it does to the drivers as well.

I can agree with that too. Perhaps the dynamic of, and the relationship between the two teams will have changed, now that AT is a “sister team”. Maybe they’ll have more say about keeping Gasly as team leader. I guess it depends on what Albon’s future turns out to be.

 

[greatvoyager]

After those radio comments, Albon is done.

He's less obvious. The more obvious ones are Gasly, Kvyat and Checo.

Would Red Bull want to promote drivers that have previously been demoted?
Gasly for me would be the best choice now he has found his mojo, but I wonder if Red Bull would want to do it.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Would Red Bull want to promote drivers that have previously been demoted?
Gasly for me would be the best choice now he has found his mojo, but I wonder if Red Bull would want to do it.

It's a choice of hiring Perez, forking out for Hulkenberg, eating humble pie with Kvyat/Gasly or sticking with Albon.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Would Red Bull want to promote drivers that have previously been demoted?
Gasly for me would be the best choice now he has found his mojo, but I wonder if Red Bull would want to do it.

Paul Di Resta was claiming there has been internal disputes between Gasly and Red Bull (I can't remember the exact wording he used), even that aside I'm not sure it would be good for Gasly to go back to Red Bull given it could end the same way with him back in the same environment.

 

[greatvoyager]

Paul Di Resta was claiming there has been internal disputes between Gasly and Red Bull (I can't remember the exact wording he used), even that aside I'm not sure it would be good for Gasly to go back to Red Bull given it could end the same way with him back in the same environment.

That's a good point, maybe Gasly would be better as Team Leader at AlphaTauri.

Interesting that now Russell’s seat might be up for grabs.

 

[najaB]

Well, there are two seats going at Haas.

 

[greatvoyager]

Well, there are two seats going at Haas.

And they have a wide selection if candidates.

 

[Domh245]

Well, there are two seats going at Haas.

And they have a wide selection if candidates.

One seat free if certain rumours are to be believed about a Russian oligarch's son. The more alarming rumour is the one about Mick to Haas

 

[PG]

I wonder if, in the event that he does loose his seat, would Russell be a contender for the Red Bull seat next to Max? To me it seems like Albon has as good as lost it, just a question now of when they announce it.

However that might not be the wisest move (for Russell) as he'd be loosing Mercedes' backing while Red Bull may end up running a pedal-car if they can't get anyone to give them an engine to shove in the back of it...

 

[JohnMcL7]

I wonder if, in the event that he does loose his seat, would Russell be a contender for the Red Bull seat next to Max? To me it seems like Albon has as good as lost it, just a question now of when they announce it.

However that might not be the wisest move (for Russell) as he'd be loosing Mercedes' backing while Red Bull may end up running a pedal-car if they can't get anyone to give them an engine to shove in the back of it...

I don't think I've seen any mention of a possibility of Russell going to Red Bull or anywhere else at the moment, the only ones I've seen are Perez possibly taking his seat while Perez and Hulkenberg are on the short list for Albon's seat. It's hard to evaluate Russell's performance in the poorly performing Williams but he seems to have done exceptionally well against his teammate at times and would like to see what he could do with a better car.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Russel to RB would kill any chances of that cushy Merc seat. On another note, Well done Lewis on 92 wins. At this rate, he'll at least equal Schumacher's 5 consecutive titles. The gap between his wins with McLaren and wins with Mercedes alone would put him 5th in the all time wins tally, with his Merc wins putting him 3rd of all time. This and next years title is certainly his to lose.

 

[PG]

Russel to RB would kill any chances of that cushy Merc seat.

Indeed but look at Esteban Ocon - eventually he had to give up waiting on a Merc seat otherwise he'd probably still not be driving in F1.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Indeed but look at Esteban Ocon - eventually he had to give up waiting on a Merc seat otherwise he'd probably still not be driving in F1.

Well, Daimler Benz and Aston Martin just increased their partnership, so Racing Point could become a soft sister team to Mercedes. Maybe put him there when Lawrence realises Seb's washed.

 

[greatvoyager]

I wonder if, in the event that he does loose his seat, would Russell be a contender for the Red Bull seat next to Max? To me it seems like Albon has as good as lost it, just a question now of when they announce it.

However that might not be the wisest move (for Russell) as he'd be loosing Mercedes' backing while Red Bull may end up running a pedal-car if they can't get anyone to give them an engine to shove in the back of it...

I believe that the rules state that if all engine suppliers refuse to supply them, then the one with least supply to other teams, in this case Renault, will be obliged to supply engines to Red Bull, which would be interesting given their history.

 

[najaB]

However that might not be the wisest move (for Russell) as he'd be loosing Mercedes' backing while Red Bull may end up running a pedal-car if they can't get anyone to give them an engine to shove in the back of it.

You might already have seen this, but there are unofficial discussions around Red Bull buying Honda's engine program from them (the intellectual property, if not the actual facilities/personnel).

 

[JohnMcL7]

I believe that the rules state that if all engine suppliers refuse to supply them, then the one with least supply to other teams, in this case Renault, will be obliged to supply engines to Red Bull, which would be interesting given their history.

This is the case and Renault have already said they are ready to supply engines as needed but it's clear neither them or Red Bull want to do that. I thought this was a good article on the McLaren-Honda partnership:

The full story of how McLaren steered Honda towards failure - The Race

Honda's exiting Formula 1 as a frontrunner, but the first year of its current programme was a painfully different story

the-race.com

Honda obviously are a lot to blame for the engine but it sounds like McLaren were more to blame than I thought, I couldn't believe how well Toro Rosso and Red Bull did with the Honda engines however it appears they worked much better together. Aside from the previous Red Bull relationship ending sourly with Renault I can also see why they want to keep the Honda engine that's been designed with their car rather than a customer engine that hasn't.

I see they've been making clear Gasly is staying with Alpha Tauri but given he managed 5th at the weekend and far better than Albon I think he's better where he is.

 

[PG]

You might already have seen this, but there are unofficial discussions around Red Bull buying Honda's engine program from them (the intellectual property, if not the actual facilities/personnel).

Ted's Race Notebook presents the idea that Ferrari are none too keen on freezing engine development for the next few years which seems to be a condition that Red Bull want before going down the self-supply route. AIUI all engine suppliers would have to agree to a development freeze.

 

[greatvoyager]

You might already have seen this, but there are unofficial discussions around Red Bull buying Honda's engine program from them (the intellectual property, if not the actual facilities/personnel).

Interesting... I wonder if Honda will actually agree to it.

 

[D365]

How long do we need to wait for the announcement that Albon won't be retained?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

How long do we need to wait for the announcement that Albon won't be retained?

I hope perez gets his seat.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Well done Mercedes, a now record 7 consecutive constructors championships and we'll have the drivers confirmed fairly soon as Verstappen's retirement means he's out of it. Well done to Bottas though, who drove pretty much all the race with a piece of Seb's wing wedged in his car. On the George Russell front, he really needs to get into a decent car so he learns how to handle things at the top. After today, I can't see Red Bull keeping Albon. Max wants Hulkenberg but Perez brings money and podiums to boot, the former being something they'll need if they want to buy the Honda program.

 

[D365]

I hope perez gets his seat.

Heart says Hülkenberg, but Perez has podium pedigree.