LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Very sad news, such a shame. Rest in peace, Sir Frank.
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Formula 1
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greatvoyager
Established Member
RIP Sir Frank, you will be missed.
If there is a heaven, Frank won't be resting in peace. He'll be too busy correcting God on the mistakes that He made with aerodynamics!
I agree that he'll be missed.
PG
Established Member
Definitely the best F1 season in a good many years, and certainly the best in the turbo hybrid era.
Thoughts to all at the Williams team and to his family - Sir Frank was a pioneer and an inspiration to many in the F1 paddock.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I see F1 are bending over backwards for the saudis by shilling this farce into next week. In other news, Mercedes have a 2 race sponsorship from Kingspan (of Grenfell Tower fame).
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
First thoughts on seeing that video...
1) It's going to be virtually impossible to overtake on that circuit. Pole, and pace off pole, will be more critical then usual.
2) We're going see several cars stuffing into the walls during the race aren't we?
1) It's going to be virtually impossible to overtake on that circuit. Pole, and pace off pole, will be more critical then usual.
2) We're going see several cars stuffing into the walls during the race aren't we?
Then getting collected by whoever's just behind them.
Looks like an old arcade game circuit made real. Fast, flowing, flat and (almost) no run-off.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Except for the length, it's rather like Monaco isn't it?
Monaco has tighter turns, gradients, crowned roads, as well as being narrower so the average speed isn't that high. The Grand Prix circuit suited Formula E really well and that's not even F3 pace.
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KashmireHawker
Member
Absolute SCENES in Quali! Could that cost Max the title?!
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Possibly... BBC are saying he may have damaged his gearbox, which would mean a 5 place penalty if they have to change it...
It was a pretty hard slap into the wall. Even if it isn't damaged enough to require immediate change they'll be super-nervous during the race.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I've seen the highlights on YouTube. Looks like Max was getting too greedy and a punishing circuit finally bit.
Yeah, he was pushing hard but he made the outcome of the mistake worse than it had to be.
Edit: Just saw this - Alonso and Ricciardo reacting to Verstappen's lap in real time:
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KashmireHawker
Member
Red Bull think thigns are fine, making it the biggest risk in Max's life.
Tonight will have FIREWORKS!
Let's hope the Grand Prix goes off better than the F2 feature race! I'm still not entirely sure how to describe the last 2 hours, apart from best wishes to Pourchaire & Fittipaldi
Edit: Well, this is just getting bonkers..
I'm so confused!
Well, the race is over. How utterly bonkers, I was tense watching and had Horner-esque leg jitters throughout. That was ugly though, on both sides, whilst it's a case next time out of winner takes all, I fear for what is to come.
Gutted for Ocon though (despite being a bit of a Bottas fan)!
Edit: Well, this is just getting bonkers..
I'm so confused!
Well, the race is over. How utterly bonkers, I was tense watching and had Horner-esque leg jitters throughout. That was ugly though, on both sides, whilst it's a case next time out of winner takes all, I fear for what is to come.
Gutted for Ocon though (despite being a bit of a Bottas fan)!
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KashmireHawker
Member
Has we all recovered from THAT?! What a CRAZY evening!
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
No, I think we're going to see even more next week in Abu Dhabi. That was an absolute blunder from Red Bull and the FIA, Lewis was lucky to not need a wing change. The craziest part was him being able to pump in fastest lap after fastest lap with an endplate missing. The FIA have called Max to the stewards for allegedly brake checking Lewis, could seriously throw the championship in Lewis's favour. As the Constructors go, it's now Merc's to lose, as I don't see Red Bull overhauling them in normal circumstances.
On the subject of what Max does with a win in hand, if he tries to pull a Suzuka 90, it'll end like a Jerez 97 with him disqualified from the championship for sure, so he will want to keep his nose clean. His driving standards have been a little ropey as of late, he'll be lucky to leave saudi without a penalty.
Peregrine 4903
Established Member
Lewis has also been summoned to the stewards for rear ending Max. Honestly, I don't see how Lewis can escape a penalty for that.
I do agree though, Max's driving is getting dirty and desperate. I want him to win the championship so that somebody new wins, but his wheel to wheel racing recently is really putting me off.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
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All very convenient that they happen to go into the final race all square on points - very nice for the F1 owners and their broadcasters. Fix!
I think if they decide that Max was driving dangerously, then Lewis is essentially exonerated as there’s only so much second-guessing you can do of the car in front.
Peregrine 4903
Established Member
The telemetry though has confirmed that Max didn't use his breaks at all. So Lewis's claim of Max break checking him are incorrect.
Honestly, while I agree Verstappens weaving was bad, the more I look at it I fail to see how it isn't Lewis's fault. Why didn't he just overtake?
He has to get a penalty for it in my view. Verstappen should probably get another 5 second penalty for the amount of dangerous driving off the track though.
If you're giving a place back then pick one side of the track or the other. Not the middle.
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LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Max should've let Lewis by on the pit straight where there was ample room and this whole incident would've been avoided. Lewis can't leave there with a penalty whilst Max doesn't, it'll just set the precedent of the lead driver can do as they wish with the cars behind and receive no punishment. Max parked the car on the racing line, not really a let him by move, is it?
Although saying that, this mess was made worse by Masi losing control of the race following the incident, causing a mass of confusion and the stewards to essentially take over.
JamesRowden
Established Member
Did Max 'engine brake' by shifting down just before the incident?
If a car is slowing down and weaving at high frequency from side to side (for an unknown reason), would it affect your ability to decide which side on which to make the overtake, when a collision taking both out would mean that the destiny of the world championship would no longer be in your hands?
It looks like you may have been fooled by Max's trickery as he may have intended.
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Peregrine 4903
Established Member
I just realised, I looked at the telemetry wrong.
I still don't see why Hamilton didn't overtake him.
But its not looking good for Verstappen either, he did clearly brake. It almost feels like hes driving the way I drive when I play F1 2021.
I still don't see why Hamilton didn't overtake him.
But its not looking good for Verstappen either, he did clearly brake. It almost feels like hes driving the way I drive when I play F1 2021.
Some kind soul has posted Max's telemetry over on reddit. There was a post which had Hamilton & Verstappen's on the same graph but it's disappeared.
Unfortunately, the brake trace is binary on/off rather than representation of how much pressure was applied, but he was clearly on the brakes and downshifting, resulting in a significant loss of speed. The downshifting appears to have resulted in an inconsistent deceleration as well (notice that the speed trace is bumpy with a few changes of direction) - which won't have helped matters
I think that's a very significant point, Masi intervened on multiple occasions to try to avoid getting the stewards involved (ever since Red Flag #2 and shuffling max back to third for the restart), but really just made it all a confusing mess.
Unfortunately, the brake trace is binary on/off rather than representation of how much pressure was applied, but he was clearly on the brakes and downshifting, resulting in a significant loss of speed. The downshifting appears to have resulted in an inconsistent deceleration as well (notice that the speed trace is bumpy with a few changes of direction) - which won't have helped matters
I think that's a very significant point, Masi intervened on multiple occasions to try to avoid getting the stewards involved (ever since Red Flag #2 and shuffling max back to third for the restart), but really just made it all a confusing mess.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
It isn't wheel to wheel racing that is the issue. Crashing is the issue. Verstappen drove all weekend like someone who didn't care if he crashed. It is really hard to race fairly in that position. Personally, I think he tired to manufacture a crash and failed. He rolled the dice and got pulled up for childish stunts. He went to far this time and paid for it.
Because, as he did later, Verstappen would bounce him at the first corner under DRS.
There are easier ways to fix it than the clown show they put on this evening!
Great final race ahead mind!How does F1 turn into deal or no deal? it was a total clown show at times. It shouldn't be a conversation. It should be an instruction: Start third or we will penalise you worse.
I felt Red Bull would gamble on a 5 second penalty and try to start first. Guess the risk was the punishment would be worse.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
I actually regret criticising Charlie Whiting whilst he was still alive. He wouldn't have allowed this nonsense to go down today. Masi has been nothing but incompetent since taking the job, a completely poor fit for the sport, send him back to Supercars (if the Aussies even want him back).