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Freight train derailed at Lewisham 24/01

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Trainguy90

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That entire junction at courthill loop was replaced last weekend and over ran by a few hours I think.

freight trains should still be able to use the nunhead route through London as they could go via Woolwich or Bexleyheath to get to hoo/grain
 
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rd749249

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I wonder how feasible it would be to run a shuttle between Dartford and Orpington via the Lee freight loop so Sidcup line passengers could change at Grove Park?

That is a very good suggestion
 

spark001uk

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I find the comment on the top of the realtimetrains page mildly amusing: "This service was cancelled between Parks Bridge Jn and Neasden Charrington Gbrf due to a request by the customer (FL)."!

Perhaps the driver rang up and said" slight problem, a few wagons stacked it at the back, but do you want me to still deliver the rest?". ;)

(Just joking before the flames roar, obviously nothing can leave the scene of an accident)
 
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najaB

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I find the comment on the top of the realtimetrains page mildly amusing: "This service was cancelled between Parks Bridge Jn and Neasden Charrington Gbrf due to a request by the customer (FL)."!
There are only so many delay codes - and "Train fell off the track" isn't one of them. The only other appropriate one I could see was "Broken/cracked/twisted/buckled/flawed rail" but they don't know if the broken rail was cause or effect.
 

spark001uk

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Isn't there one called "operating incident" or something like that?
 

GB

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There are only so many delay codes - and "Train fell off the track" isn't one of them. The only other appropriate one I could see was "Broken/cracked/twisted/buckled/flawed rail" but they don't know if the broken rail was cause or effect.

Pretty sure I have seen derailment as a reason before on RTT
 

Islineclear3_1

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Absolute chaos at Victoria this evening with only 1 barrier open, severe overcrowding as a result of more delays and cancellations. Police caught someone trying to jump over the barriers because staff wouldn't open them to let people through to catch their train

Roll on tomorrow <(
 

urpert

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Absolute chaos at Victoria this evening with only 1 barrier open, severe overcrowding as a result of more delays and cancellations. Police caught someone trying to jump over the barriers because staff wouldn't open them to let people through to catch their train

Roll on tomorrow <(

Yeah I was stuck in that too. 1925 Orpington left 3 down and crush loaded, sat for 10 minutes or so at Brixton while more people tried to squeeze on and I bailed at Herne Hill for the bus.

Not sure why the Chatham lines were so badly affected - do the crews/diagrams really interwork that much?
 

LeylandLen

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I would appreciate any information regarding the cranes and associated trains going to rerail this freight train such as where are the cranes coming from ? I would assume one is on standby somewhere in the London area?

Ive been through Wembley many times on WCML and not seen one there ; a logical place to have 1 ? I assume one would be a rail crane as opposed to a road crane recently used to recover the derailed tram near Croydon ?
 

GB

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I would appreciate any information regarding the cranes and associated trains going to rerail this freight train such as where are the cranes coming from ? I would assume one is on standby somewhere in the London area?

Ive been through Wembley many times on WCML and not seen one there ; a logical place to have 1 ? I assume one would be a rail crane as opposed to a road crane recently used to recover the derailed tram near Croydon ?

I believe a rail crane left Warrington and picked up another rail crane at Bescot. Will head to Wembley then onto Hoo Junction before heading to site in the early hours.
 

spark001uk

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One would expect there to be some cranes at "Ashford crane depot".? A location of that name with no cranes would be a bit odd! Or is it only for storing light rail lifting cranes etc?
 

theageofthetra

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Could this be some sort of record for the shortest lived piece of trackwork? - not withstanding enemy action during WW2.
 

LAX54

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One would expect there to be some cranes at "Ashford crane depot".? A location of that name with no cranes would be a bit odd! Or is it only for storing light rail lifting cranes etc?

Imagine they may need a hefty crane and maybe a long reach crane to sort it out
 

Bromley boy

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Yeah I was stuck in that too. 1925 Orpington left 3 down and crush loaded, sat for 10 minutes or so at Brixton while more people tried to squeeze on and I bailed at Herne Hill for the bus.

Not sure why the Chatham lines were so badly affected - do the crews/diagrams really interwork that much?

Yes very much so. It's common for ex Charing+/Cannon St services terminating at Orpington to then form Orpington - Victoria services. Equally crews may spend half a shift working into Charing +/Cannon St and then switch to Victoria services.

This coupled with the fact that the Orpington Victoria services usually require pathing out of the Orpington bay platforms, then run between Orpington and Petts Wood before diverging to the Chatham lines so are vulnerable to disruption on the Southeastern Main Line.
 
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The Chatham ML has been put though the course for the past couple of days. While trying to cope with the normal number of services, it has also dealt with an extra half hourly service to Tunbridge W, as well as other peak Cannon St services that mostly get diverted to Blackfriars. It does start to struggle at that level, because most services get slowed down by the resulting congestion.
 

DelW

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I think it's a 25 around there, not sure about freight speed so it couldn't be going that fast. I feel for the driver.

In a situation like this, if the brake pipes pull apart then obviously brakes come on throughout, but if they don't, how quickly might the driver realise there is a problem? With no rear view mirrors (I think), presumably only the extra drag from the derailed wagon(s) would alert him/her? Just thinking that the further the train travels with one or more derailed wagons, the more extensive the track and equipment damage would be.
 

talldave

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Mildy annoyed that SE announced yesterday that HS ticket acceptance would be in place today, then withdrew it overnight, after I've rearranged my day on the basis of arriving at STP. Yes, it's great that services are running again but they don't seem to consider that some of us used their announcement to change our travel times and schedule.

As it turns out, my slow-speed service is cancelled, I'm not allowed on HS1, so I'm on an earlier train that I happened to be just in time for, in breach of my Gold Card discount, which I wouldn't normally have used!
 

Bromley boy

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thanks for that, I know exactly where it happened now and where I thought.
I think it's a 25 around there, not sure about freight speed so it couldn't be going that fast. I feel for the driver.

20 over the junction from the up slow to the Courthil Loop, 20 all the way along the loop to where it joins the mid Kent line before Lewisham. With good reason it's a very tight curve.

Trains approaching the loop from the up slow are checked down to a red signal controlling access to the loop so, I agree, it's highly unlikely excessive speed was a factor.
 
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Bromley boy

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Mildy annoyed that SE announced yesterday that HS ticket acceptance would be in place today, then withdrew it overnight, after I've rearranged my day on the basis of arriving at STP. Yes, it's great that services are running again but they don't seem to consider that some of us used their announcement to change our travel times and schedule.

As it turns out, my slow-speed service is cancelled, I'm not allowed on HS1, so I'm on an earlier train that I happened to be just in time for, in breach of my Gold Card discount, which I wouldn't normally have used!

Also irritating when "local bus services" were said to be accepting Southeastern tickets/passes but that message clearly hadn't filtered through to the drivers operating said services! This caused a few arguments in the Lewisham area yesterday.
 

najaB

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In a situation like this, if the brake pipes pull apart then obviously brakes come on throughout, but if they don't, how quickly might the driver realise there is a problem? With no rear view mirrors (I think), presumably only the extra drag from the derailed wagon(s) would alert him/her?
You are correct - if the brakes don't come on there's no easy way for the driver of a long freight to know what's happening at the back of their train.
Just thinking that the further the train travels with one or more derailed wagons, the more extensive the track and equipment damage would be.
There have been cases where trains have travelled a significant distance with derailed wagons and done a lot of damage as a result - King Edward VII Bridge in Newcastle comes to mind. If I remember correctly a hopper wagon went across it derailed and damaged most of the signalling.
 

najaB

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If I remember correctly a hopper wagon went across it derailed and damaged most of the signalling.
Just found the RAIB report. The train travelled 850m at low speed with two wagons derailed (and on their sides for some distance) before the brake pipe broke.

(Apologies: I thought doublepost merging was on again.)
 

najaB

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Notable there is the piece of rail that is severed. Is that the cause or the consequence of the derailment?
I'm fairly sure that's the first question that the investigators are trying to answer.
 
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hwl

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Notable there is the piece of rail that is severed. Is that the cause or the consequence of the derailment?

https://twitter.com/networkrail/status/823978420786831361

Looking at the fracture in the photo probably consequence.
Is the crossing a fixed or switched diamond as the crossing looks like the point of derailment? (on the down slow the track "behind " the crossing has been pulled and the track in front compressed)
 
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