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French LGV Speeds

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rf_ioliver

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Looking at the OpenRailwayMap site I notice that some of the French LGV lines are marked as 330kmh operation.

I know that LGV-Est runs at 320kmh but do any trains on the LGV Nord/Sud-Est/Mediteranne run at 330kmh or is 300 still the norm

t

Ian
 
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AlexNL

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LGV Nord and LGV Sud Est are built for 300 km/h operation. LGV Med is designed for 350 km/h, trains run at 300 km/h. On a section between Avignon and Aix-en-Provence they run 320 km/h.
 

Senex

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All high-speed lines are acceptance-tested at 10% above the planned commercial speed, so a line to be used at 300 km/h will be tested to 330 km/h. Is this the explanation of the 330 figure used on the maps?
 

theageofthetra

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LGV Nord and LGV Sud Est are built for 300 km/h operation. LGV Med is designed for 350 km/h, trains run at 300 km/h. On a section between Avignon and Aix-en-Provence they run 320 km/h.
I've been on the roof deck of river cruise ships as the TGVs criss cross the Rhone/Soane at that speed - it really is spectacular. When the river is full in spring you are VERY close to the underside of the bridges
 

rf_ioliver

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All high-speed lines are acceptance-tested at 10% above the planned commercial speed, so a line to be used at 300 km/h will be tested to 330 km/h. Is this the explanation of the 330 figure used on the maps?

That's for the trains under normal conditions. Thalys TGV's were used for GSM-R testing at 400kmh on LGV Nord, plus there have been numerous special runs over the normal speed limit.

The question is more are there TGV's running at over 300kmh in normal service, other than LGV Est at 320kmh, and now it seems parts of LGV Mediteraneane (spelling).

Anyway, after today's 300kmh jaunt between Le Mans and Paris and the promise of LGV Bretagne later this year my TGV craving is satisfied for a little while :)

t,

Ian
 

hexagon789

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Other than the LGV Est and a short section of the LGV Méditerranée, the following LGVs are also operated regularly at up to 320 km/h:
The second section of the LGV Rhône-Alpes, the French side of the LGV Perpignan-Figueres (the Spanish side is 310 km/h max, though the route is designed for up to 350 km/h on both sides) and the LGV Rhîn-Rhones. All other LGVs curremtly open are 300 km/h max to the best of my knowledge, except the aforementioned LGV Est and a section of the LGV Méditerranée between Aix-en-Provence and Avignon TGV stations. As a side note the LGV Sud-Est was 260 km/h on opening, soon increased to 270 km/h and then to 300 km/h as it is now. Some of the TGV Sud-Est sets still have a 270 km/h maximum speed.
 

Peter Mugridge

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The question is more are there TGV's running at over 300kmh in normal service, other than LGV Est at 320kmh, and now it seems parts of LGV Mediteraneane (spelling).

I have seen 319 km/h displayed on the screen inside a Eurostar 374 on the LGV Nord and my GPS recorded 199.4 mph at the same time; it's unlikely that the two independent systems would over-read by exactly the same figure so it very likely is a genuine speed achieved on that run.

Eurostar themselves have told me that they do achieve this speed in short bursts on a regular basis. However it's not possible to do a prolonged run at that speed because nothing else can achieve it yet on that line.
 

Flying_Turtle

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the problem is that there isn t much interest in running regularly at 320 km/h as it would mean much more significant brake wear (the main limitation for higher speeds are braking problems ).So the runs, are set for 300 kmh but trains can achieve 320 on certain stretches to recover delays (French drivers do economic driving and are rewarded for that)
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The new lines opening this year to Bordeaux, Rennes and Montpellier will be 320km/h.
The PR for the LGV system is rather shy about telling you what the operational speeds are, and Wikipedia is none too clear either.
SNCF also have a Byzantine rolling stock upgrade/replacement programme, so it is not always obvious what speed your train is capable of.
With several lines now consisting of older construction nearer Paris, and newer extensions in the provinces, many trains will have varying speeds over the route.
Signalling also varies, with TVM on the older lines/sections (including LGV Nord/CTRL), and ETCS on the newer sections.
It's much the same in Spain where every high-speed train seems to have a different spec to the last, though their through trains do have two gauges and tilt to deal with.
 
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Senex

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I have seen 319 km/h displayed on the screen inside a Eurostar 374 on the LGV Nord and my GPS recorded 199.4 mph at the same time; it's unlikely that the two independent systems would over-read by exactly the same figure so it very likely is a genuine speed achieved on that run.

Eurostar themselves have told me that they do achieve this speed in short bursts on a regular basis. However it's not possible to do a prolonged run at that speed because nothing else can achieve it yet on that line.
So when were the permissible speeds for normal trains (obviously different for special test running in France and in Germany -- see comment above) for the LGV Nord (Route 226/1) raised? In a copy of the Renseignements Techniques I have from the 1990s the line-speed is 300, and in the superb two-volume work from La Vie due Rail of 2011 that gives gradients, distances, curves, tracks, and speeds for all principal French lines, Line 226/1 is shewn with a maximum of 300.
 

flash

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I have seen 319 km/h displayed on the screen inside a Eurostar 374 on the LGV Nord and my GPS recorded 199.4 mph at the same time; it's unlikely that the two independent systems would over-read by exactly the same figure so it very likely is a genuine speed achieved on that run.

Eurostar themselves have told me that they do achieve this speed in short bursts on a regular basis. However it's not possible to do a prolonged run at that speed because nothing else can achieve it yet on that line.

Rubbish!!!! 300kmh max for a Eurostar (either 373 or 374) whether UK, French or Belgium high speed lines.

Eurostar will not have told you that they achieve 'that' speed on a regular basis. Someone is talking with a forked tongue!
 

hexagon789

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While I am not entirely certain if the LGV Nord is still 300 km/h maximum, I can find no evidence to suggest that the speed limit has been increased. I've travelled on high-speed trains in Italy where the current speed is displayed on an overhead monitor and it has fluctuated above the maximum allowed (262 km/h on a 250 km/h route). Additionally the TVM 430 signalling system will automatically apply the brakes if a train overspeeds by 15 km/h, so I would suggest that the e320 speed display uses GPS rather than the driver's speedometer to display a "current speed" and the 319 km/h was perhaps just a fluctuation.
 

SHD

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I have seen 319 km/h displayed on the screen inside a Eurostar 374 on the LGV Nord and my GPS recorded 199.4 mph at the same time; it's unlikely that the two independent systems would over-read by exactly the same figure so it very likely is a genuine speed achieved on that run.

Eurostar themselves have told me that they do achieve this speed in short bursts on a regular basis. However it's not possible to do a prolonged run at that speed because nothing else can achieve it yet on that line.

Both your observation and Eurostar's reported admission that their trains regularly reach 320 km/h on the LGV Nord stand out as extremely surprising (to put it mildly).

Indeed,
(i) the maximal operational speed of LGV Nord has not varied and is still at 300 km/h except in the vicinity (and obviously through) Lille Europe ;
(ii) the COVIT (COntrôle de VITesse) kicks in at 315 km/h

You might want to contact Philippe Mouly, Eurostar's COO, and ask him whether he has any comments on your observation.

Edit : I had not read hexagon's post and he certainly nailed it!
 
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Starmill

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What is it about Avignon TGV to Aix-en-Provence TGV that's so special? Is it a particularly useful spot to speed up? Or just it was straight and easy to do?

Is all of the stock on LGV Est capable and ready for 320kmh?

Lots of people on YouTube and Wikipedia are shall we say hazy on the distinction between 300kmh and 320kmh lines!
 
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hexagon789

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The Aix-en-Provence to Avignon 320 km/h section on the LGV Méditerranée, is a "test section", I believe it was introduced so that SNCF could monitor the effect on the track and trains of running at 320 km/h against 300 km/h in regular service I think the 320 km/h section was inaugurated before the opening of the first section of the LGV Est as well. The maximum speeds of TGV sets are as follows:
TGV Sud-Est: generally 300 km/h, though some are 270 km/h max, when introduced into service in 1982 their maximum speed was 260 km/h
TGV Atlantique: 300 km/h
TGV Réseau, Duplex, Réseau-Duplex, Dayse, POS, Thalys etc all 320 km/h. The Réseau sets were 300 km/h max until they were refurbished and put to use on the LGV Est. The TGV Duplex were also 300 km/h max until they started running at 320 km/h on the Aix-en-Provence to Avignon 320 km/h test section.

As the LGV Sud-Est is primarily used by the double-deck TGV sets, though the TGV Réseau also operate on through services into Italy, I would say that all the TGVs operating on the LGV Sud-Est have a 320 km/h top speed, though the speed limit on the LGV Sud-Est is 300 km/h max.
 
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Starmill

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Other than the LGV Est and a short section of the LGV Méditerranée, the following LGVs are also operated regularly at up to 320 km/h

...

...

As the LGV Est is primarily used by the double-deck TGV sets, though the TGV Réseau also operate on through services into Italy, I would say that all the TGVs operating on the LGV Est have a 320 km/h top speed, though the speed limit on the LGV Est is 300 km/h max.

Aren't these rather contradictory statements about 320kmh? Plus, aren't there some ICE sets that use LGV Est?
 

hexagon789

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Yes, sorry it's the autocorrect on my phone. The LGV Est is 320 km/h max. The LGV Sud-Est is 300 km/h. The LGV Sud-Est is primarily operated by double-deck TGVs for capacity reasons. The TGV Réseau also use the route on through workings to Milan. All the double-deck TGVs plusTGV Réseau have an in service top speed of 320 km/h. Thus all the TGV sets operating on the LGV Sud-Est are capable of 320 km/h despite the Sud-Est remaining a 300 km/h LGV. Sorry about the confusion!

Edit: I think I've corrected the original post to read what I meant, but I've retype it above just in case I've missed a correction somewhere. There's rather a lot of "Ests" and not much between Sud-Est and Est. That combined with reading/typing in a hurry is a sure fire way of me making a mistake somewhere along the way!
 
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