From Monday 19th July - Government has laid Regulations revoking (most) restrictions

[roversfan2001]

From a foreign perspective I find it quite hard to understand the decision of the UK government.

The UK current has the 4th highest infection rate of any country in the world. In Berlin where I live the infection rate is 15/100,000, which is a little dissapointing because last week it was 5. In the UK yesterday it was 665.

No-one here is talking about a "freedom day". Removal of corona restrictions is slow and steady.

We're considerably further along in our vaccine rollout than Germany.

 

[Darandio]

No-one here is talking about a "freedom day". Removal of corona restrictions is slow and steady.

We've been gradually removing restrictions since 8 March, it's not as sudden as people like to make out.

 

[DustyBin]

We've been gradually removing restrictions since 8 March, it's not as sudden as people like to make out.

This seems to have been completely forgotten. This is the fourth stage, meaning there have been three previous stages spread over several months. We haven’t gone from lockdown to free for all overnight (and it isn’t a free for all in any case).

 

[yorkie]

Quick question, apologies for not reading further back in this or any other thread (and apologies if this is the wrong thread to ask in):

Will I need to wear a mask on trains tomorrow, and if not is there a succinct "stock phrase" I can use if and when challenged (eg: "it's no longer a legal requirement, therefore I'm not wearing one")? I will, however, need to wear a mask on the Underground?

Thanks very much.

There is no legal requirement to wear a mask, however TfL have made it a condition of travel to wear one on the Underground (unless exempt).

 

[Failed Unit]

I know people don’t like flu comparisons. But most years we have no clue how many get flu, the majority just take drugs, go to bed and recover. About 50% of the people I know who have had it, would not have taken any action. Not because they are inconsiderate people, but they displayed no symptoms. They got picked up because of bi-weekly testing.

I personally don’t know if England is right or not. But it is like learning to swim you need to jump in the pool sometime. Let’s hope we don’t need rescuing.

 

[yorkie]

From a foreign perspective I find it quite hard to understand the decision of the UK government.

The UK current has the 4th highest infection rate of any country in the world. In Berlin where I live the infection rate is 15/100,000, which is a little dissapointing because last week it was 5. In the UK yesterday it was 665.

No-one here is talking about a "freedom day". Removal of corona restrictions is slow and steady.

Vaccines do massively reduce infections but they do not prevent them. The aim of vaccines is to give the body the ability to fight an infection and prevent serious illness. They are effective at doing this. Around 88% of adults have now been vaccinated with at least one dose, with the vast majority of those (around 68% of adults) having now had two doses.

Our removal of restrictions has been painfully slow too, but we are further ahead because our vaccination programme started earlier. I expect German to catch up too.

The virus is adapting to improve fitness to infect human cells through natural selection in the expected way and we are heading for a similar outcome to the OC43 virus, which is now believed to have caused a pandemic just over 130 years ago, and went on to become endemic. Infections are not a problem once you have a reasonable amount of immunity.

I know people don’t like flu comparisons.

It's a really good job this isn't a novel flu virus; it would be far worse if it was.

But most years we have no clue how many get flu, the majority just take drugs, go to bed and recover. About 50% of the people I know who have had it, would not have taken any action. Not because they are inconsiderate people, but they displayed no symptoms. They got picked up because of bi-weekly testing.

Exactly; once people have been vaccinated (and anyone who hasn't really needs to make an appointment immediately) there really isn't any issue, as the effects of the virus become not significantly different to other human coronaviruses.

It may take a vaccine + natural infection to reach the same level of immunity as we have against similar coronaviruses such as OC43, but we will get there.

Anyone who is not vaccinated yet needs to seriously consider getting vaccinated ASAP, because there is no way they are not going to get infected at some point.

 

[kristiang85]

I know people don’t like flu comparisons. But most years we have no clue how many get flu, the majority just take drugs, go to bed and recover. About 50% of the people I know who have had it, would not have taken any action. Not because they are inconsiderate people, but they displayed no symptoms. They got picked up because of bi-weekly testing.

I personally don’t know if England is right or not. But it is like learning to swim you need to jump in the pool sometime. Let’s hope we don’t need rescuing.

Indeed. If we did this much testing for winter flu, then people would probably be quite shocked at the numbers.

 

[williamn]

We're considerably further along in our vaccine rollout than Germany.

Not massively, 53% fully vaxxed versus 46%.

 

[roversfan2001]

Not massively, 53% fully vaxxed versus 46%.

87.7% of adults in England have had at least one dose, 68% have had both. I'm not sure where you got 53% from?

 

[quantinghome]

87.7% of adults in England have had at least one dose, 68% have had both. I'm not sure where you got 53% from?

53% is the % of the total population double-jabbed.

Anyone who is not vaccinated yet needs to seriously consider getting vaccinated ASAP, because there is no way they are not going to get infected at some point.

There's the problem of hesitancy of course, but we're also hearing of instances locally where people cannot get to the nearest vaccination centre for a variety of reasons - they are full time carers, they can't afford the bus/train fare, not being allowed time off work etc. There should have been a much bigger effort over the past two months to get all remaining adults vaccinated through neighbourhood initiatives, and major incentives e.g. lottery prizes.

 

[Jamesrob637]

A bus near mine this morning seemed to have more unmasked than masked on board, though a) it wasn't particularly full and b) I only caught a glimpse.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

53% is the % of the total population double-jabbed.


There's the problem of hesitancy of course, but we're also hearing of instances locally where people cannot get to the nearest vaccination centre for a variety of reasons - they are full time carers, they can't afford the bus/train fare, not being allowed time off work etc. There should have been a much bigger effort over the past two months to get all remaining adults vaccinated through neighbourhood initiatives, and major incentives e.g. lottery prizes.

Offering prizes to incentivise the reluctant to come forward for vaccination smacks of playing up to their fears, in my opinion. If you cannot persuade people with reasoned scientific argument, then prizes just reinforce their mindset of ‘why are they so desperate to coerce me to have this?’
If the rhetoric is to be believed, around a third of the ‘vaccine hesitant’ must already have had the virus asymptomatically, so have natural immunity, surely?

 

[ABB125]

There is no legal requirement to wear a mask, however TfL have made it a condition of travel to wear one on the Underground (unless exempt).

You wouldn't think it's no longer a legal requirement, considering the number of people still wearing masks!

 

[island]

If individuals choose to opt to continue to wear face coverings, that is entirely their right. The key word is “choose”.

 

[ABB125]

If individuals choose to opt to continue to wear face coverings, that is entirely their right. The key word is “choose”.

Of course, I don't disagree with that. I'm just slightly surprised by the number of people choosing to continue wearing masks.

 

[J-2739]

Of course, I don't disagree with that. I'm just slightly surprised by the number of people choosing to continue wearing masks.

It's the first day, to be fair. People are bound to be anxious. I'm not, but some are I guess.

I expect mask usage to decline over this week though.

 

[nlogax]

Of course, I don't disagree with that. I'm just slightly surprised by the number of people choosing to continue wearing masks.

Doesn't really surprise me. The enthusiasm shown on this forum for being able to cast off masks and face coverings as of today was never likely to be representative of the wider population. Give it a few days though and I fully expect usage of face coverings to drop quite noticeably.

 

[Failed Unit]

It's the first day, to be fair. People are bound to be anxious. I'm not, but some are I guess.

I expect mask usage to decline over this week though.

I suspect that it is also going to make a big difference on the mode of transport they are on. I suspect that if you are on a train with no air-conditioning today, less people will be wearing them then if the air-conditioning is working. The temperature today is demonstrating perfectly why I can't wear one.

 

[ExRes]

I'm struggling to understand why the conversation about wearing or not wearing masks is taking place, the forum as a whole is so adamant that mental health is one of, if not the most, important things then surely the choice of the individual is paramount, if you wish to wear one do, if you don't then don't, just allow people to make their own choice based on their own circumstances, it's not for ay contributor on here to force their views onto other people

 

[Failed Unit]

I will be interested come lunchtime if the queuing in shops has altered, I will report back but is it still max x in the shop at once. To be honest today I don't care as it is a lovely day so if all shops only had the person they were serving allowed in no drama. But with social distancing gone I will pay a little attention to these restrictions.

I did find at certain supermarkets, even with the restricted entry certain areas were very crowded. Fruit and Veg for example as this is the first area you come to and it appears what a lot of people want.

 

[quantinghome]

Offering prizes to incentivise the reluctant to come forward for vaccination smacks of playing up to their fears, in my opinion. If you cannot persuade people with reasoned scientific argument, then prizes just reinforce their mindset of ‘why are they so desperate to coerce me to have this?’

Those who haven't been jabbed will fall into one of these groups:

1. Anti-vaxxers - at this point nothing will convince them.
2. Those who want to get the jabbed but haven't been able to access. This group needs attention.
3. Those who aren't against vaccines per se and could get vaccinated but don't see the point - the "I'm 50 and as fit as a fiddle" type. This group needs incentives.

I'm struggling to understand why the conversation about wearing or not wearing masks is taking place, the forum as a whole is so adamant that mental health is one of, if not the most, important things then surely the choice of the individual is paramount, if you wish to wear one do, if you don't then don't, just allow people to make their own choice based on their own circumstances, it's not for ay contributor on here to force their views onto other people

Masks work mostly by stopping me spreading what I might have to others, rather than protecting myself from others. That's the crucial thing to understand. It is (now) an individual choice (but not in some places), but one which acts more to protect others than yourself. That's why it will get controversial.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It’s just as likely they don’t want to stand out or be confronted, accepting that there are people who think a bit of cloth will protect them. I think once we reach a critical mass of non-wearers the majority will follow, when that will be though I’m not sure.

None of the people of a similar age to me (76) that I know use a cloth face protection. Many of them have a health visitor for a member of the family group who wears a disposable face protection with a circular disk item that is changed after each home visit and they all wear, as I do, that type of face protection.

 

[greyman42]

I think that’s an important point about respect. I do think that in some places it’s going to cause conflict and that’s not good.

What places did you have in mind?

 

[nlogax]

Last year I messed around with creating a QR code for my own house so I could test the whole check-in thing from the Covid app. I received the following email as a 'venue owner' this morning. Thought it would be useful to post this for the sake of clarity as these are the rule changes laid out as of today (or rather 23:55 last night);

Dear venue owner, Thank you for downloading and displaying the official NHS QR code poster. Since April 2021, NHS Test and Trace has issued over 500,000 alerts to individuals who may have been exposed to COVID-19 at a venue they visited. This has made a huge impact on identifying positive cases, breaking chains of transmission and supporting businesses to stay open. Thank you for all your support to make this happen. Changes to venue check-in regulations​ From Monday 19 July 2021, designated venues are no longer legally required to ask customers, visitors and staff to “check in” (attendees can scan the NHS QR code poster via the NHS COVID-19 app or provide their contact details). Although it isn’t a requirement, you are strongly encouraged to retain your NHS QR code poster and maintain your “logbook” containing attendees’ contact details. By asking individuals to check in and promptly sharing the records of those who provide their contact details with NHS Test and Trace, you will help us to identify people who may have the virus. NHS Test and Trace will only ask for your records if there is an outbreak at your venue, and then alert attendees who checked in on the same day. Venue alerts: will be triggered if there are two or more cases at a venue (unless it is a large venue, such as a football stadium, which will lead to a case-by-case assessment). will ask individuals to book a test as soon as possible. A venue alert will not ask individuals to self-isolate. will never name the venue linked to the outbreak. does not mean your venue needs to close. Public health guidance will be given to you if you are contacted by NHS Test and Trace so that you can continue to operate safely. are not the same alert that individuals receive on the NHS COVID-19 app if they have come into close contact with a confirmed case. Close contact alerts will advise the individual to self-isolate, venue alerts will not. will be sent as an app notification to those that scanned the NHS QR code with the NHS COVID-19 app, or by text message to people who provided their contact details to check in.

 

[greyman42]

53% is the % of the total population double-jabbed.

Considering there are no plans at the moment to vaccinate the total population, that could be seen as mis-leading figure.
The figures regarding vaccinated adults gives a better perspective.

 

[Cdd89]

The figures that really matter are vaccination rates in the over 50s. This brings the numbers up significantly, and for the vast majority of the country I have no concerns — but I must admit to finding many areas of London quite concerning and I’ve no idea how that will play out. My LA has 72% uptake of first doses in over-50s; I can see healthcare being severely pressured and can only hope that the 28% have some (impossible to fully measure) natural immunity to relieve the pressure, and maybe that people can be shipped off to other hospitals with excess capacity.

To be clear, I don’t think the solution is keeping restrictions longer than we have. And completing the vaccination programme with fully vaccinating the young in these areas isn’t going to significantly move the needle.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has anything "official" been said about booster doses for specific groups thought to be in danger?

 

[DustyBin]

Has anything "official" been said about booster doses for specific groups thought to be in danger?

No that I'm aware of, although I'd say it's likely they'll be offered based on what has been said.

 

[DelayRepay]

The official Covid 19 Response (Summer) - published when it was confirmed that today's relaxations would go ahead, specifically refer to Boosters:

COVID-19 Response: Summer 2021

www.gov.uk

The JCVI’s interim advice, based on existing evidence, is to offer COVID-19 booster vaccines to the most vulnerable, starting from September 2021.[footnote 9] The booster programme would aim to provide additional resilience against variants, and maximise protection in those who are the most vulnerable to serious disease from COVID-19 ahead of the winter months, when there is increased pressure on the NHS as non-COVID-19 emergency demand is at its highest.

A booster dose would be offered to groups in two stages and, if possible, delivered alongside the annual influenza vaccination. In the first stage, a booster would be offered to adults aged 16 years and over who are immunosuppressed; those living in residential care homes for older adults; all adults aged 70 years or over; adults aged 16 years and over who are considered clinically extremely vulnerable; and frontline health and social care workers. As soon as practicable after the first stage, the second stage would see a booster offered to all adults aged 50 years and over; adults aged 16–49 years who are in an influenza or COVID-19 at-risk group;[footnote 10] and adult household contacts of immunosuppressed individuals. The recommended shape of a booster campaign - including when, for whom and which vaccine(s) would be used - might change as further evidence becomes available.

 

[quantinghome]

Considering there are no plans at the moment to vaccinate the total population, that could be seen as mis-leading figure.
The figures regarding vaccinated adults gives a better perspective.

@williamn was using the figure to compare against the equivalent German % in response to the suggestion that the UK was well ahead of Germany. So not misleading at all provided you're comparing the equivalent %.