Front line staff: are you worried about job security?

[8rwg]

Excuse if this comes of as a bit of a rant

I shan’t lie that reading some of the news in the telegraph, regarding the news of the franchise system, I am starting to get worried about my job security (ticket office, although for all station staff roles to be honest).

I know we should wait for the official announcement but none the less, I’m wondering what other people think of this?

Even with our strong union membership - seeing figures stating it’ll take 5+ years to go back to normal usage levels I wonder if they will start to make us redundant. Certainly if I were a middle manager I would be bricking it right now
What do you think?

 

[Platform9]

Fully agree. The fact there's another thread elsewhere on the forum throwing round the suggestions that they could save money by closing ticket offices, going DOO more & cutting services hasn't done my anxiety any favours today. I like many give as much effort at work in a job I really enjoy, to read many flagrantly cast us aside isn't nice.

 

[ST]

It is a fair point and a number of industries/businesses are adopting different ways of working to cover costs and others to simply stay in business. Whilst I appreciate the railways are a key component in keeping Britain moving, I think there will be tough and calculated decisions taken related to staffing in areas of lesser demand as we recover as a nation, regardless of the type of business.

 

[43066]

I think it very much depends on grade and area.

There was a thread on ticket offices recently, and they certainly seem to be on borrowed time in many locations, particularly those with large commuter populations which have a high degree of season ticket travel. That was the case before Covid but might well be accelerated. The way the LU has closed ticket offices might be an indication of the way things will go in the future.

That doesn’t necessarily mean staff will be made redundant, but they may be redeployed to more visible (and potentially less desirable) roles standing in the ticket hall answering questions, showing people how to use ticket machines etc.

Operational grades are probably at the lowest risk, given the service relies heavily on overtime at the best of times, so even a significant reduction in services (eg to a permanent Saturday timetable) could probably be weathered by reducing RDW and natural attrition.

 

[Mintona]

I’m trying not to worry but I always do, about everything. It’s one of my worst personality traits. So yes.

But hopefully numbers will pick up again soon and we can all be ok.

 

[tiptoptaff]

I think it very much depends on grade and area.

There was a thread on ticket offices recently, and they certainly seem to be on borrowed time in many locations, particularly those with large commuter populations which have a high degree of season ticket travel. That was the case before Covid but might well be accelerated. The way the LU has closed ticket offices might be an indication of the way things will go in the future.

That doesn’t necessarily mean staff will be made redundant, but they may be redeployed to more visible (and potentially less desirable) roles standing in the ticket hall answering questions, showing people how to use ticket machines etc.

Operational grades are probably at the lowest risk, given the service relies heavily on overtime at the best of times, so even a significant reduction in services (eg to a permanent Saturday timetable) could probably be weathered by reducing RDW and natural attrition.

I think location will have a big say in it. From what I've been told, our commuter traffic has dropped off a huge cliff in and around London, but further out, the regional and local train loadings have taken less of a hit

 

[8rwg]

I think it very much depends on grade and area.

There was a thread on ticket offices recently, and they certainly seem to be on borrowed time in many locations, particularly those with large commuter populations which have a high degree of season ticket travel. That was the case before Covid but might well be accelerated. The way the LU has closed ticket offices might be an indication of the way things will go in the future.

That doesn’t necessarily mean staff will be made redundant, but they may be redeployed to more visible (and potentially less desirable) roles standing in the ticket hall answering questions, showing people how to use ticket machines etc.

Operational grades are probably at the lowest risk, given the service relies heavily on overtime at the best of times, so even a significant reduction in services (eg to a permanent Saturday timetable) could probably be weathered by reducing RDW and natural attrition.

Do you think you could link to that thread?

 

[Economist]

Firstly, are the passenger numbers based on ticket sales or footfall estimates based on the amount of weight each train is carrying? It's become fairly well-known that ticket checks are not being enforced to the same degree that they used to, so I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of tickeless travel has gone through the roof, especially in areas which use smartcards.

The increase in road use will create a lot of congestion, especially when things start getting back to normal, whatever that "normal" may be. The pwoers that be therefore need a viable alternative to road use and the railways most accurately fit that description. In order for the railway to remain attractive, there needs to be a reasonably frequent service otherwise rail travel becomes inconvenient and people use the car.

I think staff who are directly involved in train movement won't be hugely impacted by job cuts, if there is a reduction in service levels, the first thing to go will be overtime. Secondly, one of ASLEF's long term goals is a 32 hour week and it may well be something that would merit serious consideration, they may also try and push EJRA a lot more (which I'm opposed to). We've also got a couple of popular TOCs recruitment-wise experiencing a lot of driver retirements, so I can foresee movement there as well.

I think, costs-wise, ERTMS may well be kicked into the long grass, HS2 will have it (HS2 still goes ahead) but otherwise, I don't see the money being available, nor the political will to implement it existing.

 

[C J Snarzell]

A lot of industries are clearly affected by the fall out from Covid19. My friend works as a bus driver for Stagecoach and he has stated passengers levels are nowhere near their level now than they were six months ago, just prior to the lockdown. He even stated there are less school children using the bus services now, as parents are clearly making other arrangements for their children to get to school safely.

The end of the furlough scheme is going to have a massive impact on job security as employers will suddenly not have the extra funding to pay staff their salaries.

CJ

 

[LowLevel]

I work as a guard on a mix of inter regional, long distance rural and local services. Our numbers aren't bad. Blue collar commuters are still about, white collar particularly long distance are not (but more talk about returning when you see them using the train for leisure which is encouraging), and the leisure traffic has been nuts at times - my trains yesterday were the usual Sunday afternoon wedge with students moving around etc.

I'm not particularly worried for my future, I don't think - I'm paying in if anything more than before COVID and the parts of the network I work on were comprehensively destaffed between the 60s and 90s already so there isn't that much left to cut.

Ticket offices however I fear for. The fact I am taking a load of money and observation of tickets suggests plenty of people are either buying e-tickets or chancing it and being mopped up by conductors.

 

[baz962]

I think location will have a big say in it. From what I've been told, our commuter traffic has dropped off a huge cliff in and around London, but further out, the regional and local train loadings have taken less of a hit

Depends where in London. I keep hearing this low loadings stuff. On the Overground , I'm regularly driving train's packed to the rafters.

About three weeks ago , I couldn't get everyone on and a colleague had the same problem the other day. I was travelling as a passenger and it was full at around ten/ eleven pm.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Depends where in London. I keep hearing this low loadings stuff. On the Overground , I'm regularly driving train's packed to the rafter's. About three weeks ago , I couldn't get everyone on and a colleague had the same problem the other day. I was travelling as a passenger and it was full at around ten/ eleven pm.

But that sounds more like leisure travel than commuters returning en-masse. But if you're noticing an uptick in commuters, that can only be a good thing!

 

[baz962]

But that sounds more like leisure travel than commuters returning en-masse. But if you're noticing an uptick in commuters, that can only be a good thing!

The one I was a passenger would have been. The one's I have driven are all sorts of time. Very busy at around 5pm , plenty of builder types etc .

 

[theironroad]

Realistically, I don't think commuter levels for London and other big cities are going to increase this year. Most companies seem happy to keep staff WFH for now at least.

I realise there is a lot of uncertainty around at the moment and while it's easy to say, I think everyone should just take it one day at a time. Getting over stressed about events outside our control doesn't do anyone any good, we don't know what next month or year will bring and at the moment we have had no definitive guidance from tocs or government on where this all heads.

For those of us still working, all we can do really is crack on each day and be grateful that compared to many right now, we do still have a job to go to.

Take care out there and stay safe.

 

[8rwg]

Firstly, are the passenger numbers based on ticket sales or footfall estimates based on the amount of weight each train is carrying? It's become fairly well-known that ticket checks are not being enforced to the same degree that they used to, so I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of tickeless travel has gone through the roof, especially in areas which use smartcards.

I'm not sure. In the Telegraph yesterday it said TOCs didnt expect normal levels until 5 years away, but then I see people such as Permanant Rail Engineering predicting by the end of the year if current trends continue, which I find a lot more believable (provided there's no second wave...). It's an interesting point though

Ticket offices however I fear for. The fact I am taking a load of money and observation of tickets suggests plenty of people are either buying e-tickets or chancing it and being mopped up by conductors.

Whilst I agree for inner city stations, we still gather a good amount of foot traffic, likewise for other large stations. I can very easily see a downsizing but to get rid of them all will throw many elderly and disabled passengers into the dark - but I would agree out of all frontline staff it'd be an easy one to cut...

Blue collar commuters are still about, white collar particularly long distance are not (but more talk about returning when you see them using the train for leisure which is encouraging), and the leisure traffic has been nuts at times

This mirrors my experience in commuter belt stations. The summer is always weird and a bit of a lull in commuter traffic, but some days this summer it has been very busy with leisure travellers.

 

[Steve Laird]

I honestly believe they'll be a large push for DOO. I think the Train Managers for TOCs such as CrossCountry have a fight on their hands.

If cuts are to be made I suspect now would be the ideal time especially in the light of low passenger numbers.

Maybe I'm over thinking it but I suspect not.

 

[irish_rail]

Well with an unpredictable lunatic who is prepared to flout international law as our ultimate boss, I'd say no one can really feel too safe.

 

[irish_rail]

You know Tony Blair is no longer in power, yeah?

Unfortunately for all of us who reside in the UK I am aware of that. Crikey looking back to Blair days in early 2000s seems a bed of Rose's compared with the shower we have in power now.....

 

[4F89]

Yes we know it .

Irish-rail seems to be more up to date than you in terms who is our current boss and how much his word is worth ( for most).

Ooh, touched a nerve?

Unfortunately for all of us who reside in the UK I am aware of that. Crikey looking back to Blair days in early 2000s seems a bed of Rose's compared with the shower we have in power now.....

Definitely have your rose tints on today!

 

[theironroad]

Let's all just hope that nobody from British Airways management has been drafted in...

 

[irish_rail]

Ooh, touched a nerve?


Definitely have your rose tints on today!

Rose tinted spectacles? So you actually think the mess we are in today is a good thing. UK is an utter laughing stock, trust me. I've never known such an abysmal ruling party in all my days..
Cameron started the rot with daft referendum, and now frankly we are in such a state it's barely believable. Even the Tory papers are slowly turning on the clown in chief.

 

[4F89]

Rose tinted spectacles? So you actually think the mess we are in today is a good thing. UK is an utter laughing stock, trust me. I've never known such an abysmal ruling party in all my days..
Cameron started the rot with daft referendum, and now frankly we are in such a state it's barely believable. Even the Tory papers are slowly turning on the clown in chief.

I think we could be in a much worse state if the other side had been successful.

Agree with Cameron, he misread the feeling in the country. But what is done is done, and should be carried through. For better or for worse, it IS what was voted for. And Boris is doing the best he can, given the circumstances. And he WAS voted to this position by the country, so needs to be allowed to do his job and not be frustrated all along by those that didn't like the course of the last 4 years.

 

[irish_rail]

I think we could be in a much worse state if the other side had been successful.

Agree with Cameron, he misread the feeling in the country. But what is done is done, and should be carried through. For better or for worse, it IS what was voted for. And Boris is doing the best he can, given the circumstances. And he WAS voted to this position by the country, so needs to be allowed to do his job and not be frustrated all along by those that didn't like the course of the last 4 years.

I agree. However breaking international law is the kind of thing Hitler was doing in the 1930s. Brexit has to happen, but not in the way Boris is doing it, and NOT breaking the law. Peace in Ireland is one of many things at stake here.

 

[4F89]

I agree. However breaking international law is the kind of thing Hitler was doing in the 1930s. Brexit has to happen, but not in the way Boris is doing it, and NOT breaking the law. Peace in Ireland is one of many things at stake here.

I dont see how writing a law that only comes into effect to force a hand of the opposition, and that only has influence after the previous law has become null, is breathtaking. The new law is designed to prevent the EU forcing NI into a 3rd country status from what I can see.

We are all being painted into a corner by politicians who don't actually listen to their constituents, on all sides.

 

[irish_rail]

I dont see how writing a law that only comes into effect to force a hand of the opposition, and that only has influence after the previous law has become null, is breathtaking. The new law is designed to prevent the EU forcing NI into a 3rd country status from what I can see.

We are all being painted into a corner by politicians who don't actually listen to their constituents, on all sides.

Talking of listening to constituents, Brexit wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of being voted through now, hence why Boris called an election in 2019 as opposed to a second Brexit vote which he knows he would have lost. And it has gone even further against Brexit since then.
However I agree Brexit must and will happen, but we must take the rough with the smooth and show brexit to be the embarrassment it is rather than try and sugar coat it and blame the EU for everything. We have our bed and must now lie in it, no matter how bad. How else will we teach the electorate a lesson???

 

[4F89]

Talking of listening to constituents, Brexit wouldn't stand a cat in hells chance of being voted through now, hence why Boris called an election in 2019 as opposed to a second Brexit vote which he knows he would have lost. And it has gone even further against Brexit since then.
However I agree Brexit must and will happen, but we must take the rough with the smooth and show brexit to be the embarrassment it is rather than try and sugar coat it and blame the EU for everything. We have our bed and must now lie in it, no matter how bad. How else will we teach the electorate a lesson???

I'm not so sure that the feeling "out there" is now to remain. If anything, from the circle of people I know, the desire is stronger than before to carry out the exit promptly.

Surely, if there was no longer support for Brexit, then Boris wouldn't be in No. 10 in the first place.

I also believe that we can make a go of this, but this relies on people embracing it and getting on, not doing a Gina Miller and being a pain for the sake of it.

 

[Bald Rick]

Firstly, are the passenger numbers based on ticket sales or footfall estimates based on the amount of weight each train is carrying?

Both.

 

[irish_rail]

I would argue that the south and the metropolitan north are all now against Brexit now everyone has seen the reality.
Admittedly , on paper Brexit seemed a nice idea, but now we have all seen the consequences the vast majority see it for what it is. There are pockets of Brexit support in places like Mansfield, Crewe, Burnely etc, but overall I think a second vote would be 70 percent in favour of remain......
(Not that I think the result should be overturned by the way, as democracy is democracy, but I dont think it should be railroaded through in the way it is)

 

[Ianno87]

I'm not so sure that the feeling "out there" is now to remain. If anything, from the circle of people I know, the desire is stronger than before to carry out the exit promptly.

Surely, if there was no longer support for Brexit, then Boris wouldn't be in No. 10 in the first place.

I also believe that we can make a go of this, but this relies on people embracing it and getting on, not doing a Gina Miller and being a pain for the sake of it.

I'm getting the impression that the now admission of breaking international law, re-writing the withdrawal agreement and undoing the "oven ready" deal the Tories were elected on is leaving the few remaining Brexiteers wondering what they *really* voted for.

 

[DB]

I'm not so sure that the feeling "out there" is now to remain. If anything, from the circle of people I know, the desire is stronger than before to carry out the exit promptly.

Surely, if there was no longer support for Brexit, then Boris wouldn't be in No. 10 in the first place.

I also believe that we can make a go of this, but this relies on people embracing it and getting on, not doing a Gina Miller and being a pain for the sake of it.

Embracing what exactly and getting on with what? We still have none of these promised trade agreements, and no vision at all as to how the country is going to take the situation forward.