Front line staff: are you worried about job security?

[DorkingMain]

No. There have been redundancies before. Every effort is usually made to get people with these skills/qualifications alternative roles though as they're expensive to train. Caterers have certainly been cut and in the early years of privatisation there were plenty of redundancies as the bus bandits mucked up their manning calculations. More recently things like XC closing their Brighton depot have happened.

Where there has been discussion about DOO this might push the DfT towards taking a harder line on it. I struggle to imagine my own work going that way but who knows in this scary new world.

I don't think DOO is a fight the DfT will want to be taking now of all times:

- It generates very expensive and unbecoming strikes
- Taking away customer-facing roles when you're trying to get people to come back to the railway will have the opposite effect
- The only way you can motivate drivers to take on DOO responsibilities is with a fat pay rise (see Southern, SWR, etc.). Drivers' grades are usually much bigger than conductor grades, especially at TOCs like Southern, and so giving £10,000 extra to every driver ends up costing just as much as the guards' grade did

 

[bramling]

What are thoughts about impact on customer facing roles such as Train Crew, including Conductors and Drivers? Are they completely protected in a Franchise or DFT run operation?

The longer the training period the safer the job is.

 

[ST]

Appreciate the thoughts, I am currently going through the Train Driver recruitment process for a TOC (DFT owned) and if successful I would be leaving an extremely safe, albeit HUGELY frustrating job in the Civil Service so was wanting to harvest the opinions of those whom are much more experienced in the Railway Industry.

It does appear to me that whilst there is uncertainty moving forwards, in light if the length of training and existing drivers exiting, potential DOO etc. there is a future of the role in the industry......I hope?!

 

[dk1]

Appreciate the thoughts, I am currently going through the Train Driver recruitment process for a TOC (DFT owned) and if successful I would be leaving an extremely safe, albeit HUGELY frustrating job in the Civil Service so was wanting to harvest the opinions of those whom are much more experienced in the Railway Industry. It does appear to me that whilst there is uncertainty moving forwards, in light if the length of training and existing drivers exiting, potential DOO etc. there is a future of the role in the industry......I hope?!

It will be fine if you are a driver at a TOC. Nothing too much to be concerned about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Appreciate the thoughts, I am currently going through the Train Driver recruitment process for a TOC (DFT owned) and if successful I would be leaving an extremely safe, albeit HUGELY frustrating job in the Civil Service so was wanting to harvest the opinions of those whom are much more experienced in the Railway Industry.

It does appear to me that whilst there is uncertainty moving forwards, in light if the length of training and existing drivers exiting, potential DOO etc. there is a future of the role in the industry......I hope?!

I would be surprised if driver was an issue; "guard only operation" which I think will happen eventually is a long, long way off.

 

[Economist]

I would be surprised if driver was an issue; "guard only operation" which I think will happen eventually is a long, long way off.

I don't know if guard only operation will ever happen. Firstly, a lot of lines would need to be re-signalled and all rolling stock which was to utilise those lines would need to be modified with the in-cab equipment unless ATO was able to run in parallel with TCB/AB. As far as I'm aware it can't, though I stand to be corrected. It's worth remembering that one of the main reasons the in-cab signalling project for the WCML was shelved was that the new signalling system couldn't interface with the old one. I believe there's been a lot of problems with the Thameslink and Crossrail ATO implementations, both are way behind schedule, over budget and not operational.

There would also need to be some sort of regression plan in place to allow the old system to be re-utilised if the new system didn't work and that would require co-operation from ASLEF.

I don't see the cost-benefit analysis adding up, especially in the post-Covid environment with government budgets coming under strain. I think the Tories will be gone in a few years and we'll have 15 years of Labour, they won't pick a fight with ASLEF for the sake of it.

 

[dctraindriver]

I don't know if guard only operation will ever happen. Firstly, a lot of lines would need to be re-signalled and all rolling stock which was to utilise those lines would need to be modified with the in-cab equipment unless ATO was able to run in parallel with TCB/AB. As far as I'm aware it can't, though I stand to be corrected. It's worth remembering that one of the main reasons the in-cab signalling project for the WCML was shelved was that the new signalling system couldn't interface with the old one. I believe there's been a lot of problems with the Thameslink and Crossrail ATO implementations, both are way behind schedule, over budget and not operational.

There would also need to be some sort of regression plan in place to allow the old system to be re-utilised if the new system didn't work and that would require co-operation from ASLEF.

I don't see the cost-benefit analysis adding up, especially in the post-Covid environment with government budgets coming under strain. I think the Tories will be gone in a few years and we'll have 15 years of Labour, they won't pick a fight with ASLEF for the sake of it.

I believe it’s nigh on impossible to overturn an 80 seat majority into a fail for the conservatives by 2024, maybe by 2029 Labour could be in power, however much could change between now and then.

I have to say I’ve found this thread interesting to read, it would appear more glass half full opinion in respect of how our careers unfold over the next few years. I hope so.

 

[Steve Laird]

I believe it’s nigh on impossible to overturn an 80 seat majority into a fail for the conservatives by 2024, maybe by 2029 Labour could be in power, however much could change between now and then.

I have to say I’ve found this thread interesting to read, it would appear more glass half full opinion in respect of how our careers unfold over the next few years. I hope so.

I would have agreed that overturning an 80 seat majority would be nigh on impossible in normal times but we aren't in normal times.

We are looking at mass unemployment, huge numbers of deaths, one shamble after another and brexit looming. We also finally have a labour leader that the general public like and can get on board with.

The biggest worry in regards to jobs appear to be from the catering side just now. My friend works for LNER and he has barely had a customer over his most recent 4 shifts.

RSMs for CrossCountry are the same, also no hot food or alcohol doesn't help.

In regards to redundancies only saving grace maybe that there is an older workforce. Hopefully this means no compulsory redundancies if it came to it

 

[theironroad]

I think trolley catering is probably at risk as I believe it's not always that profitable at the best of times.

A few years ago, Southern pulled all their trolleys overnight with no advance warning for staff or passengers. Staff were then paid until redundancy process completed.

SWR who have trolleys on their Exeter, Portsmouth & Bournemouth routes pulled all their trolleys off when covid started and they've not returned yet in any form and the Elior staff were put on furlough scheme.

Seems to be some doubt now as to what will happen at end of October when furlough finishes and whether trolleys will return.

While passenger numbers rose to about 40% of last year's levels at beginning of September from a low of 5% in deepest lockdown, the recent rise in cases and WFH renewal has seen latest national figures drop again to about 32%.