Full Train - passengers left on platform

[Oscar46016]

Anyone know if operators are obliged to record this information?

I know that they record lateness but what about if you can’t get on a train - can you still claim a refund ?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Anyone know if operators are obliged to record this information?

I know that they record lateness but what about if you can’t get on a train - can you still claim a refund ?

I should think so, as you will have to get a later service, that you were intending to get.

 

[Oscar46016]

I just looked at the TfW “delay repay” website and they quote reasons as train delayed or train cancelled - I’ve selected train cancelled as that’s what I guess it was from my station!

 

[yorkie]

If there is no option to select train too full to board, and no free text option, I would email them.

Are you requesting a refund for an abandoned journey or a delay compensation for a delayed journey?

 

[Killingworth]

This is going to be difficult to administer! Who would record this, presumably the driver or over worked guard, if there is one? Most stations have no staff and cctv isn't set up to do this. I know guards do report overcrowding on some Northern services but how is it recorded?

Might we also consider compensation for those who felt too ill or unsafe to continue in a crowded train and left before their final destination to await the next train? I've seen and heard of that happening several times on my line. Lots of scope for complaints.

 

[benk1342]

I’ve successfully claimed delay repay for this in the past - just explained what happened in the free text. I think it was First Capital Connect at the time but may have been after Great Northern took over. However it was probably due to a short formation or an earlier train being cancelled, of which they would have a record.

 

[sefyllian]

I just looked at the TfW “delay repay” website and they quote reasons as train delayed or train cancelled - I’ve selected train cancelled as that’s what I guess it was from my station!

I’ve received delay repay from TfW in the past for not being able to board a full train.

It is a bit of a pain because, as you say, there’s no “full train” option to select, and nowhere in the form to explain either. So I just chose cancelled/delayed, then you get an email in a few days saying it’s been rejected because the train wasn’t cancelled/delayed – but you can appeal the decision, and in *that* form there is a box to explain what happened. My appeal was accepted and the delay repay paid a few days later. I don’t know why they don’t just modify the form, it is a rather silly process – maybe to discourage people?

(I did take a photo on my phone of TfW staff preventing people from boarding due to the overcrowding, and I mentioned that in the appeal, but don’t know whether it made any difference. They didn’t actually ask to see it.)

 

[tom73]

This is going to be difficult to administer! Who would record this, presumably the driver or over worked guard, if there is one? Most stations have no staff and cctv isn't set up to do this. I know guards do report overcrowding on some Northern services but how is it recorded?

Might we also consider compensation for those who felt too ill or unsafe to continue in a crowded train and left before their final destination to await the next train? I've seen and heard of that happening several times on my line. Lots of scope for complaints.

If compensation was known to be available for such a situation, it would be wide open to abuse with everyone on the crowded train at the time feeling entitled to claim

 

[gray1404]

Is delay repay officially payable as an entitlement if a train is too full to board or does it depend on the specific operater as to the rules of their scheme?

 

[Killingworth]

If compensation was known to be available for such a situation, it would be wide open to abuse with everyone on the crowded train at the time feeling entitled to claim

Quite, it's a minefield in these day sof compensation culture. As it is only a small percentage will claim for delays, most deterred by the need to waste yet more time on the admin necessary after the delay. And that includes me!

 

[VT 390]

West Midlands Railway have the option of train to busy to board on the delay repay form but even when I have claimed on this they responded saying there was no delay but when I contacted them and explained it was to busy to board they paid, so you can get compensation but they don't make it easy.

 

[Oscar46016]

Thanks folks

 

[smsm1]

I've seen Greater Anglia post Journey Check messages such as "Train full and standing", thus they have recorded it on some occasions on the rural services.

 

[sheff1]

I have returned to the ticket office and obtained a full refund when a train was grossly overcrowded. I could possibly have forced my way on but preferred to make the journey by bus (longer but far more comfortable). The booking office just took my word for it.

I have also received 100% of the ticket price when staff were telling people not to board and I took the next train - the resulting delay would not have qualified for 100% compensation. In that case I sent an email explaining what had happened - whether the TOC checked some sort of records I do not know.

 

[Horizon22]

Depends why - if its booked formation and with no delay you might struggle. If there was related service disruption (i.e people were boarding this train as an alternative although you individually weren't) or the train was short-formed, several TOCs see that as a genuine Delay Repay reason even if it left bang on time.

 

[Starmill]

Is delay repay officially payable as an entitlement if a train is too full to board or does it depend on the specific operater as to the rules of their scheme?

There would need to be a specific contractual exemption for not making the payments if this were the case. I'm unaware of any such exemptions.

If you're entitled under (less generous) NRCoT criteria, the picture is clearer: there is no exception but the one about the delay being outside of industry control. Only a handful of operators are able to rely on this exception.

If they have not stated in their Charter that they wish to rely on this exception, there can be no possible exceptions, for any reason. Claims for delays of a qualifying period must result in the payments.

 

[najaB]

Is delay repay officially payable as an entitlement if a train is too full to board or does it depend on the specific operater as to the rules of their scheme?

The only reliable answer is "it depends". I've lost count of the number of times that people have been unable to board at one door, despite there being empty space (and on some occasions even free seats!) in another part of the train. In those cases I would expect the operator to decline the claim.

If, however, there was genuinely no more space to safely board then yes the claim should be paid. Normally the guard/driver/station staff will make a notation in the log to the effect that the train was full and standing.

I have made a couple of claims on that basis and both were paid.

 

[sauron2010]

Anyone know if operators are obliged to record this information?

I know that they record lateness but what about if you can’t get on a train - can you still claim a refund ?

Everything is Rigged in favour of train operators unfortunately, advanced tickets, no right to a seat, Extortionate refund "admin fees", charged for a ticket at the point of sale but have to wait weeks on end for a refund, list goes on.

 

[farleigh]

goodpost

 

[scrapy]

My mum and dad received 'compensation' from Virgin in the form of two first class return tickets when a train their reserved seats were in a carriage with no working air conditioning, tgere were no alternatives on that train as people were standing and it was a hot day and they chose to wait for a later service, so always worth making the complaint even if you're not necessarily entitled to it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Everything is Rigged in favour of train operators unfortunately, advanced tickets, no right to a seat, Extortionate refund "admin fees", charged for a ticket at the point of sale but have to wait weeks on end for a refund, list goes on.

Harsh - I think you are forgetting the plenty of times passengers are allowed to travel for free given no effective ticket checking, the freedom to put your feet on the seats without challenge, play your music out loud, abuse other passengers, pick pocket them if you need to share out some of their wealth etc etc